Intro to Novatac lights

Lately, I've been on a buying spree (small scale, that is) for EDC lights. With all the readings I've done the past few weeks, Novatac lights come up as a well regarded line of EDC lights. I'm getting the itch to try out a Novatac just to see for myself. I'd like to start with the 120P but I'm not sure about a $130 gamble is appropriate. So I'm thinking of going for the older, discontinued 85T to start with. Will I be missing much between the 85 and 120 lumen output ? What features/function am I giving up by going the 85T route instead of one of the 120 series lights.

What say you guys ??

arnoldr

Buy a Ra instead you won't look back the EDC 120 is available for $99 from several of the dealers here on CPF.
Norm

You're in the same boat I was in a couple years ago when I bought a 120P out of curiosity. I used it for a little while after receiving it and liked a lot of things about it, but it never became a daily carry item for me, aside from the honeymoon period.

I kept seeing the Ra lights and thought that I'd never get one as all I could see them as was a Novatac with larger bezel. Now that I've had a couple Ra Twisty's and am on my third Ra Clicky I realize the while they may be a tiny bit longer, they are also slimmer than the Novatac, and you can get a used Ra Clicky in the MarketPlace for around $100. I just sold one for that price and there will be others.

Remember the Novatac/HDS/Ra are all designed by the same man, with the Novatac being the oldest and Ra being what we presently buy from him, with all the newest perfections applied.

Two problems I had with my 120P were low level flicker and eventual draining of the battery even with no use. I thought they were both just design anomalies but neither one of them is present in any of my Ra's.

Spend a little less and get a used Ra Clicky.

Here's a couple threads you should at least take a look at. The first one is the Must Have List and the second is the endless continuation of the Ra Clicky thread.

The Novatac lights are great lights. The quality of the Novatac lights is on par with the HDS System lights and the designs are similar because they have the same designer. I have both Novatac and HDS lights and I like them both and they are among my favorites. There are some great deals on the Novatac 85T lights if your look around a bit.

arnoldr said:

Lately, I've been on a buying spree (small scale, that is) for EDC lights. With all the readings I've done the past few weeks, Novatac lights come up as a well regarded line of EDC lights. I'm getting the itch to try out a Novatac just to see for myself. I'd like to start with the 120P but I'm not sure about a $130 gamble is appropriate. So I'm thinking of going for the older, discontinued 85T to start with. Will I be missing much between the 85 and 120 lumen output ? What features/function am I giving up by going the 85T route instead of one of the 120 series lights.

What say you guys ??

arnoldr

Click to expand...

What's the max size dimensions you're looking for?

$130 will buy you better lights depending on the size restraints.

Thank for the replies. Yes, I've read a lot about the Ra lights too. In fact, I'm also considering the Ra Clicky 120 together with the Novatacs. The lenght of the Ra is probably the main reason for holding me back. What I didn't realize is that the Ra is slimmer than the 85T/120P (thanks KD). I have a cheap Garrity light (takes 3 AAA) that resembles closely the dimension of the Ra. I think that's big for pocket carry and definitely has to be on the belt or holster. I know the 85T goes for $60 now while the Clicky can be had for $99. Both of which are at 85 lumens other than the 'burst mode' on the Ra.

What size do I prefer ? That a tough question and I don't know the answer to that. If it helps, this is what I have now : Qmini AA, Qmini 123 (soon), LD10 R4, Nitecore D10 SP (coming), Incendio V3 (coming)d L2T v2.0

arnoldr

arnoldr said:

I didn't realize is that the Ra is slimmer... (thanks KD).

Click to expand...

I would have never realized there was any difference if I hadn't tried to put the tailcap from my 120P onto my first Clicky!

Another reason I didn't want a Ra when I first saw them was the large bezel which I got over once I got it replaced with an AlTiN coated Ti bezel that blended with the rest of the light giving it a stealth-like appearance.

Now that I've got a Ti Clicky it still doesn't bother me because it's all the same color and I also now realize that the light is not as much longer as one might think just looking at the bezels since the bezel on the Clicky actually goes most of the way down to the emitter, while the Novatac bezel rides just at the top of the lens.

I've had both- I would say Novatac. Great lights, perfect size and great beam. Still have 2 120T's, 120E and 120P. Had several Ra's and only have one left, my Ti Ra, but that will probably be gone soon.
The 85T would be a great place to start but, you can't just have one.:thumbsup:

Just my 2 cents. I too am fairly new to the forum, much to the dismay of my wallet. Researching the Novatac flashlights brought me here and I have been on almost every night since. I ended up getting the Novatac 120T first and then the 120M, and then a 120E, and then I found a great deal on a SPA weapon light(Novatac). I then ordered a couple of Ti bezels from RPM which were superb and greatly complimented my lights. I loved the UI and customization abilty along with the tactical operation. Still, so many post about Henry's Ra lights. Finally broke down and got a 170 Cn Tactical. WOW. Worth every penny. The narrow beam has considerably more throw than the Novatacs, better run times on the Ra and more agressive knurling on the Ra. The Ra feels more substantial in the hand. The Ra is only slightly longer than my 120T with RPM's bezel. I will not discard my Novatacs. They are always close by for back ups. I can't say enough great things about this forum and the people on it. Always good advise.

Either get a Ra Clicky or one of the older Novatac models.

Yup, Lighthound.com has the black 85T model on sale for about $60. An excellent value.

Avoid the newer, cheaper, models. They're crap.

Arnoldr,

kaichu dento said:

Remember the Novatac/HDS/Ra are all designed by the same man, with the Novatac being the oldest and Ra being what we presently buy from him, with all the newest perfections applied.

Click to expand...

As has been pointed out in this thread, the lights you were looking at are older designs. The state of the art has improved significantly over the last 4 years. Here are some of the improvements:

1) We have returned to constant power regulation. I only did one Clicky design that used constant current regulation. That design had problems with low-end flickering. I left the company that produced that design and based on all of the posts on CPF, I assume the problem was never fixed. HDS Systems is the only company with a constant power regulation design and that design has proven to be very stable and one of the best regulation systems used in any flashlight.

2) Our new armored and padded bezel design fully protects the front of the flashlight. This allowed us to upgrade to using an ultraclear glass lens without fear of breaking the lens. The glass lens eliminates most lens scratching common to plastic lenses. But if you are really hard on a lens, you can get sapphire instead.

3) We now have a smooth battery case interior so your battery will not be damaged when the flashlight is dropped. We also use a unique dampened dual spring contact system that prevents damage to either end of the battery and maintains electrical contact even with severe impacts - without excessive compression forces.

4) We have changed to lightly loaded heavy duty threads. The old design used heavily loaded thin threads that could wear out after a couple hundred battery changes - not my design.

5) We have added a sealed switch with gold plated contacts for higher reliability.

6) We have increased the minimum runtime from 30 minutes to a typical 1.25 hours while providing significantly higher outputs.

7) We have added support for many different output options including IR, 170 lumens, high CRI.

8) We have added fully automatic detection and protection of rechargeable batteries.

9) We have made numerous improvements to the user interface. Both the Option and Brightness menus work the same so there is less to learn.

10) We have removed failure modes that were inherent in the old design. The result is, our lights can take a lot of abuse and keep on working:



11) We are still innovating.

Henry.

Is the minimum low still .08 lumens?

Beacon of Light said:

Is the minimum low still .08 lumens?

Click to expand...

Unless there's been an update that I'm not aware of, yes.

I really like the available low but hope that eventually it will go down as low as the 007/Tri-V to where it's barely visible when looking into the emitter.

kaichu dento said:

Unless there's been an update that I'm not aware of, yes.

I really like the available low but hope that eventually it will go down as low as the 007/Tri-V to where it's barely visible when looking into the emitter.

Click to expand...

That would be great considering it is a lot cheaper than those.

Wow. The 'man' himself posted on this thread. I think you can't get any better than that. I do agree that the lights I'm looking at are older designs. I asked myself why there hasn't been any significant improvement, or new offerings from Novatac since then. Most reviews I read are from way back 2007/2008. There have been major improvements since then, LED emitters are one of them. Granted, the SSC P4 hasn't changed, but Cree's XP-G are a good sample of the new breed.

Some of the things that makes the RA better are the ones that stops me from pulling the trigger. I've read somewhere that the RA is an over-built albeit excellent flashlight. For my expected use, the build quality is overkill. The size is another issue since it's bigger than most Cr123 lights and probably heavier too. If I'm not comfortable carrying it, either due to weight or size, it won't be that useful. I can't use it if I don't have it on me. Bezel down carry is another one of my preferred way.

Having said all these, I'll still probably end up with a Clicky in the near future just so I can experience for myself what the fuss is all about. I bought a few lights just recently so they should keep me company, for now.

arnoldr

arnoldr said:

I'm thinking of going for the older, discontinued 85T to start with. Will I be missing much between the 85 and 120 lumen output ? What features/function am I giving up by going the 85T route instead of one of the 120 series lights.

What say you guys ??

arnoldr

Click to expand...

you'll never miss the additional output the 120p has over the 85t and i think the features, other than output, are the same between the two. for $60.00 the 85t is a true bargain in my book.

as good as the NTs were/are, the best bang for the buck is HDS/ Ra clicky. the 120 EDC E and T models are superior in every way and not just limited to the older NTs either. do have a look at Ra. there is more of everything there.

i would jump on an NT 85T for $60.00 w/o hesitation were i in the market. don't be put off by lumin ratings. my 120p's highest setting is set at 85 lumin and that is more than adiquate. i would think more about the beam quality you are looking for and go from there.

sappyg said:

you'll never miss the additional output the 120p has over the 85t and i think the features, other than output, are the same between the two. for $60.00 the 85t is a true bargain in my book.

as good as the NTs were/are, the best bang for the buck is HDS/ Ra clicky. the 120 EDC E and T models are superior in every way and not just limited to the older NTs either. do have a look at Ra. there is more of everything there.

i would jump on an NT 85T for $60.00 w/o hesitation were i in the market. don't be put off by lumin ratings. my 120p's highest setting is set at 85 lumin and that is more than adiquate. i would think more about the beam quality you are looking for and go from there.

Click to expand...

Thanks Sappyg. I have very limited experience with the different types of emitters, and non with the SSC P4's. How does the beam quality compare between the NT and Ra ? Do they use the same emiiters ????
And does the Ra EDC executive (120 lum model) come with a flush button (for tail stand/candle mode) ?

arnoldr

For just trying and seeing, the 85T will be great. In my opinion the added robustness and such of the Ra lights are rarely needed. It's like driving a tank to work everyday. Sure, it would be a lot of fun to do so but it is mostly overkill. I have an 85T/p and it does all I could ever imagine and is already built like a brick. Difference between 85 and 120 lumens: only side by side will you notice it. And 85 lumens is actually a lot. Up until a few years ago most were using far less lumens...

The biggest advantage of these lights are the programming and the freaking low lows although sometimes I wish it could even go lower still. Using this light at these levels has changed my light acquiring behaviour in the following matter: every single light I purchased from then on must have a low low. And there are not many around.

So get an 85T from lighthound for $60,- excluding the CPF discount or a second hand Ra clicky from CPFMP. Both will make you very happy and will change your preferences in lights forever.

Ps, the Novatac is more a flooder than a thrower. Ra has options for flood OR throw. The plastic (sorry, the polycarbonate) lens scratches VERY EASY. Even when just cleaning it scratches the lens. I replaced it with a glass one. These novatacs have the 250 clicks trick. Novatacs are easily upgradeable if you can solder. Emitters of choice: K2's and XP-G's.

Have fun!

arnoldr said:

Thanks Sappyg. I have very limited experience with the different types of emitters, and non with the SSC P4's. How does the beam quality compare between the NT and Ra ? Do they use the same emiiters ????
And does the Ra EDC executive (120 lum model) come with a flush button (for tail stand/candle mode) ?

arnoldr

Click to expand...

the beam quality of my NT 120p and Ra 120 EDC- E (flat tail cap) are very similar if not identicle. very nice and floody and somewhat cool. i'm not an emitter junky so i can't call them out by name. i would venture to say that i could not tell one from the other.

the older NTs are still viable and to be honest it still walks all over a lot of the newer generation lights available today IMHO. you could probably pick up a flat tail cap for an NT with little effort. the 85T is not easily programable but it is doable. i pretty much wore out an NT T tail cap doing this.

the 120 EDC-T has more throw and is considerably warmer with a more defined hotspot.... mine could be considered a neutral tint. i use the E and T models for completely different tasks and they are programed completely opposite from one another.

After doing the trick on a few Novatacs, I actually have an easier time with the tactical switch. When I got my Storm with flat tailcap, I thought it was going to be a breeze since I finally got the hang of doing the 250 click with my 85T. The Storm took more than a handful of tries. Glad I didn't buy a few flat switches as I now like the tactical better. The flat switch allows tailstanding which is a plus. Sappy, not sure why you said the 85T is tricky getting the 250 click to work.