Who has put an XPG in a Ra Clicky? General questions.

KDOG3 · Jul 4, 2010

I think DaFab did one and it came out great of course.

If I were to get a Ra Clicky to put an XPG upgrade in (maybe when an R6 comes out) which model should I get? The one with the "wider" beam pattern or the narrow beam version? Are the reflectors different? (Thats why I'm asking) Or is it just the emitter? I'm tempted to wait to see Henrys' new lights next month ( I suspect they use XPGs but I don't know) but I may just pick up a Ra and have one of these pro-modders here plop an R6 in it for me. Just curious!

John_Galt · Jul 4, 2010

The progression is: R5 then S2, not R6.

Otherwise, good post. I'd be interested in hearing the same thing.

Tekno_Cowboy · Jul 4, 2010

I've put a couple of XP-G's into Ra Lights. The reflectors are the same. The Narrow versions use a golden dragon emitter.

There's really no difference between models when it comes to modding it to an XP-G. They all work about the same. The most difficult part with the ra lights is getting the reflector out. Once that's out, it's all gravy.

:)> · Jul 4, 2010

Tekno_Cowboy said:
I've put a couple of XP-G's into Ra Lights. The reflectors are the same. The Narrow versions use a golden dragon emitter.

There's really no difference between models when it comes to modding it to an XP-G. They all work about the same. The most difficult part with the ra lights is getting the reflector out. Once that's out, it's all gravy.

How would you describe the beam? Is it more like a Seoul LED clicky or a GD LED clicky? Did you see any increase in output?

Finally, are you happy with it and would you do it again?

Tekno_Cowboy · Jul 4, 2010

I'd say it has a very tight extra bright spot and wide bright spill. The output is noticeably brighter than stock. The tint was nicely even.

The last one I did was a warm XP-G for run4jc. I'll shoot a PM his way and see if he'd be willing to post a beamshot.

I would have been happier if it was a neutral tint rather than a warm one. I have a 3A and a 5B (or was it 5C?) I'll let you know what I think of those.

I liked the mod overall, and I'd be happy to do more of them, though be aware that there will be a delay of about 2 weeks, since I have to order in the XP-G's.

Swing by my mod thread if you're interested.

JWRitchie76 · Jul 4, 2010

Tekno_Cowboy said:
I'd say it has a very tight extra bright spot and wide bright spill. The output is noticeably brighter than stock. The tint was nicely even.

The last one I did was a warm XP-G for run4jc. I'll shoot a PM his way and see if he'd be willing to post a beamshot.

I would have been happier if it was a neutral tint rather than a warm one. I have a 3A and a 5B (or was it 5C?) I'll let you know what I think of those.

I liked the mod overall, and I'd be happy to do more of them, though be aware that there will be a delay of about 2 weeks, since I have to order in the XP-G's.

Swing by my mod thread if you're interested.

I'm pretty green to any kind of modding so please go easy on me. So if you swapped the LED in a Ra EDC 120 or a Ra EDC 140 would the output differ? or how does that work? I'm just curious to know what the benefits of an LED swap would be?

KDOG3 · Jul 4, 2010

Ok now I'm DEFINETLEY interested. I think I'll pick up a Ra 140 again from Henry and possibly send it your way for modding! When do the S2 bins come out?

fyrstormer · Jul 4, 2010

KDOG3 said:
I think DaFab did one and it came out great of course.

If I were to get a Ra Clicky to put an XPG upgrade in (maybe when an R6 comes out) which model should I get? The one with the "wider" beam pattern or the narrow beam version? Are the reflectors different? (Thats why I'm asking) Or is it just the emitter? I'm tempted to wait to see Henrys' new lights next month ( I suspect they use XPGs but I don't know) but I may just pick up a Ra and have one of these pro-modders here plop an R6 in it for me. Just curious!

Ra is coming out with a new model?

John_Galt · Jul 4, 2010

fyrstormer said:
Ra is coming out with a new model?

There has been some speculation on the grapevine that Ra is releasing a smaller, more EDC-oriented light. I believe the first mention was by Henry on the newest Ra Twisty thread.

John_Galt · Jul 4, 2010

When you say "noticeably brighter," would you say there is a dramatic increase in output? I was reading up on the GD Diamond emitter, and it's technical sheet said basically, from what I understand, that the emitter produced about 180 lumens at 1A current drive. So, assuming that the 170 models have a burst mode of ~1A, then the other drive levels would be suitably high to increase output on a much more efficient LED dramatically.

Do you have any before and after beamshots of your mods, using the same area, and camera settings? That would be great for comparing outputs.

Also, what models have you modded? What have yielded the most dramatic improvements?

Simon520 · Jul 5, 2010

Just finished putting an XPG in a TWISTY. Not a Clicky, so feel free to ignore the following.

This was probably an 80 lumen Twisty. To place the XPG, I had to bust out the SSC P4 (epoxied in place- destroyed it). I cut the P4's copper traces and levered out the emitter.

My XPG's are R5 and are on thick MCPCB. I had to file down the reflector so it didn't bottom out on the emitter- maybe 1/16" removed. Next time I'll thin out the MCPCB before trimming to size...

The flashlight is TRANSFORMED. The best way to describe the beam is "punchy flood" as McGizmo coined it. Compared to a Haiku XPG, the beam hotspot and spill are noticeably wider, but it's brighter. To me, it's at least 50% brighter than the Haiku even with the much wider beam. It's significantly brighter than my LX2 or E2DL which put out 200 honest lumens.

Now I know this isn't a Clicky. But they are similar enough (driver, reflector, bezel) that you can draw at least some conclusions.
If you had any hesitation before- shelve it. Unless you're a big throw fan and have a Narrow clicky, this is a GREAT modification.

kaichu dento · Jul 5, 2010

Tekno_Cowboy said:
I've put a couple of XP-G's into Ra Lights. The reflectors are the same. The Narrow versions use a golden dragon emitter.

If you're 100% sure that the reflector is the same then I wouldn't need to worry about changing reflectors too then. Hmmm... :twothumbs

John_Galt · Jul 5, 2010

Oh, forgot to ask... Has anyone done any current measurements? I realize that each light is different, but that would still give a general idea as to the output of the LED, from the specs sheet.

JWRitchie76 · Jul 5, 2010

Would someone please be willing to explain to me how by changing the LED it makes more light? Isn't the circuitry regulated in the HDS lights? By this I mean if you were to change the LED to an XPG in a 140 then the overall lumens are still 140 right? I know this is a very noobish question and the answers may be very complicated but I'm willing to listen. Also I'm curious to know if with the XPG is the tint an awful green color in the lower modes as they are with the quark lights? Thanks!

Jason

Pöbel · Jul 5, 2010

kaichu dento said:
If you're 100% sure that the reflector is the same then I wouldn't need to worry about changing reflectors too then. Hmmm... :twothumbs

They are, I asked henry.

I filed down the pcb as its cheaper than a new reflector. The hotspot is bigger than with GDP, but output is much brighter as well.

John_Galt · Jul 5, 2010

JWRitchie76 said:
Would someone please be willing to explain to me how by changing the LED it makes more light? Isn't the circuitry regulated in the HDS lights? By this I mean if you were to change the LED to an XPG in a 140 then the overall lumens are still 140 right? I know this is a very noobish question and the answers may be very complicated but I'm willing to listen. Also I'm curious to know if with the XPG is the tint an awful green color in the lower modes as they are with the quark lights? Thanks!

Jason

The XP-G is much more efficient than the SSC P4 or Luminus diamond Dragon, thus, by switching out the older LED to one that is more efficient (that converts more of the input current to light, instead of heat) you get an increase in output. Also, the light should run cooler with an XP-G, because less energy is being converted to waste heat.

That also means that lumen degradation occurring when the heat-sink reaches its saturation point should be less.

JWRitchie76 · Jul 5, 2010

John_Galt said:
The XP-G is much more efficient than the SSC P4 or Luminus diamond Dragon, thus, by switching out the older LED to one that is more efficient (that converts more of the input current to light, instead of heat) you get an increase in output. Also, the light should run cooler with an XP-G, because less energy is being converted to waste heat.

That also means that lumen degradation occurring when the heat-sink reaches its saturation point should be less.

10-4! :thumbsup: So how about the tinting? I owned a Quark 123 for about 2 days and the tint on that light in the low low mode was awful. Green to be exact. What kind of tint in the lower modes could one reasonably expect from these modifications?

Tekno_Cowboy · Jul 5, 2010

Simon520 said:
Just finished putting an XPG in a TWISTY. Not a Clicky, so feel free to ignore the following.

This was probably an 80 lumen Twisty. To place the XPG, I had to bust out the SSC P4 (epoxied in place- destroyed it). I cut the P4's copper traces and levered out the emitter.

My XPG's are R5 and are on thick MCPCB. I had to file down the reflector so it didn't bottom out on the emitter- maybe 1/16" removed. Next time I'll thin out the MCPCB before trimming to size...

The flashlight is TRANSFORMED. The best way to describe the beam is "punchy flood" as McGizmo coined it. Compared to a Haiku XPG, the beam hotspot and spill are noticeably wider, but it's brighter. To me, it's at least 50% brighter than the Haiku even with the much wider beam. It's significantly brighter than my LX2 or E2DL which put out 200 honest lumens.

Now I know this isn't a Clicky. But they are similar enough (driver, reflector, bezel) that you can draw at least some conclusions.
If you had any hesitation before- shelve it. Unless you're a big throw fan and have a Narrow clicky, this is a GREAT modification.

The Clicky and Twisty models should have pretty much identical setups from the spot the LED mounts to forward.

One thing that saves a ton of time and effort is to use the 8mm XP-series boards sold at the Shoppe. I've found that they work very well with the XP-G emitters without shimming, but the XP-E emitters did need shimming IIRC.

Punchy flood sounds about right. run4jc posted some very nice pics in my mod thread comparing 3 models of Ra, one of which was modded with an XP-G.

kaichu dento said:
If you're 100% sure that the reflector is the same then I wouldn't need to worry about changing reflectors too then. Hmmm... :twothumbs

According to Henry, the only difference is the emitter :thumbsup:

John_Galt · Jul 5, 2010

Does anyone know where the tint/bin chart for the XP-G is? I've been running myself ragged trying to find it. I looked at the .pdf available from Cree, and it was ok, but there was a chart that somebody posted that had each tint/bin and color temp. shown. It was really useful for comparing different bins.

I know I've seen it several times, but for the life of me, I can't remember where...

Simon520 · Jul 5, 2010

Thanks, TechnoCowboy. I had some 8mm XPG that I put into my D10's. I had ordered the highest flux XPG R5 from Cutter a few weeks ago and they came on 10mm boards.

I should have ground down the MCPCB to about 3/4 thickness before cutting the board. The heat sink area of the Twisty has a raised rim that's the exact diameter of a P4. I could have ground down the raised rim; I chose to keep it and use it to center the emitter. I just cut the MCPCB of the XPG with clippers and filed it to size. The MCPCB board ended up being just big enough for the emitter and the small solder pads.

The reflector made contact with the emitter leads, so I had to grind it down to leave room for some plastic insulating material.

The Twisty that I have uses a visible PWM for the dimmer modes. My 170 Clicky Narrow does not. Just wanted to clarify.

Who has put an XPG in a Ra Clicky? General questions.

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