SF L4 blinding enough for tactical use??

With more and more bright LED flashlights being developed, my question would be- are the state of the art models like the SF L4 really bright/blinding enough to replace my good old 6P as my home defense light? Or am I asking for somthing the LED flashlights were never meant to be?

Regards

Cato

The L4 is nowhere near as focused as the 6P. Overall brightness might be comparable but the L4 beam is much more spread out - more like a flood. IMHO it's first class for utility but for blinding an attacker I'd choose something more focused...

Chris

My opinion it is bright enough for indoor use/close quarters but I still think that a more focused light such as a 6P/G2/E2 is necessary.

Trevor

In the same catagory here; my SL TL-3, after much experimentation, and more than a few "victims", passed the tactical test. At its tightest focus, it'll blind the snot out of you.

At its largest flood, it falls a bit short.

If meant to temporarily blind someone at close distance (1 -2 meter) the L4 is very effective.
The total quantity of light emitted from L4 is higher than any other 2 cell SF (not the HOLA) but is spread over a wider area.
I find the L4 to be a lovely light, in addition to the perfect engineering work made from SF.

Anthony

I suspect that the comments on the focus of the beam are on the money in terms of blinding. However, the fact that the LED is *instant* bright likely might be favorable over the incandescent?

- Don

I think Don has an excellent point. The fact that LED's are relatively "instant on" as compared to incandescents (which actually ramp up in brightness over several milliseconds), it makes a good case for being able to blast some extra light into the suspect's eyes before the pupils get a chance to cinch up.

Look at the "red-eye reduction" feature on some of the newer cameras -- they emit a brief burst flash to crank down the subject's pupil aperture (hence reducing the exposed reflective area in the eye that causes the red-eye effect) followed immediately by the regular flash.

If you were to focus the 5W Luxeon's output tightly (such as with a M@glite reflector) and hit the eyes when the suspect is still adjusted to darkness, the results might prove very effective indeed.

Hey pk, ya listenin'?

Would colour temp. be a factor in this? We all know how white LEDs let see colours with amazing accuracy. Ive also noticed that shadows cast by objects lit by a white LED seem to be better defined than if you were to use an incandecent.
A 1 watt HD shone into ones own eyes at arm's length is certainly uncomfortable.

I don't think the "instant" on would be a factor. I've spent a lifetime observing pupil action (O.D.), and a few milli-seconds will not IMHO, be significant.

I do not underrate the "shock" and incapacitation effect of a blast of light into dark adapted eyes. You simply do not continue doing bad things if you cannot see.............

I purchased my first 6P years ago, after being introduced to such a nice, blinding, compact light. My EDC's never include a handgun without a 6P, or equivalent, (or better).

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kakster said:
Would colour temp. be a factor in this? We all know how white LEDs let see colours with amazing accuracy. Ive also noticed that shadows cast by objects lit by a white LED seem to be better defined than if you were to use an incandecent.
A 1 watt HD shone into ones own eyes at arm's length is certainly uncomfortable.

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Let me apologize in advance. I know this is off subject. One night I was fooling with my newly aquired L4 while watching TV in the dark. My cat was walking away from me into the kitchen and I pointed the L4 at his backside and activated the light. He immediately saw a beautiful shadow of himself on the kitchen cabinet, stood up on his hind legs with front paws over his head, and charged. This is quite impressive. He is a very tall and long cat. He can peruse the contents of the dining room table by just standing on his hind legs. He never quite reached the shadow. I think it was too intimidating the closer he got. I got such a kick out of it, I did it several more times that evening. He got the last laugh though. He marked later on that evening after I went to bed.
oldgrandpajack

I would be interested in a study of the difference in effect for LED vs incandescent. LED is on/off, incandescent is more staged and ramps up and then fades out. If used certain ways, I'm sure an LED could be very disorienting (like a strobe).

Bump.

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Posted by Mr. Bulk:

I think Don has an excellent point. The fact that LED's are relatively "instant on" as compared to incandescents (which actually ramp up in brightness over several milliseconds), it makes a good case for being able to blast some extra light into the suspect's eyes before the pupils get a chance to cinch up
_________________________________________________________________________
The time advantage may be even greater. Here's some information on this subject as regards LED brake lights. The question is whether a 1/5 sec faster response time has a practical advantage over incandescents in a real life confrontation.

Brightnorm


(Excerpt from article by Agilent Technologies)

LED brake lights...turn on 200 milliseconds ( One fifth sec)faster than incandescent brake lights. This translates to a full car length of extra stopping distance at 65 miles an hour

Here's a detailed PDF

LED INSTANT ON TECHNICAL DATA

Wow! Thanks so much for that info, norm!

How fascinating! I didn't know that...

That said, I'm not convinced that speed matters more than the amount of light when considering use in a personal flashlight intended to blind an attacker.

So, now that lots and lots here have one, (I've got one on the way!) do you people believe the L4 to be bright enough for such use?

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Drjones said:
Wow! Thanks so much for that info, norm!

How fascinating! I didn't know that...

That said, I'm not convinced that speed matters more than the amount of light when considering use in a personal flashlight intended to blind an attacker.

So, now that lots and lots here have one, (I've got one on the way!) do you people believe the L4 to be bright enough for such use?

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Drjones,

My *very* informal "tests" suggest that a highly focused incandescent (I used 6P with P60, Nascar E2E with P61, PM6 with standard bulb and my brightest L4) *might* be more disorienting at 5-10 feet than the L4.

These "tests" were performed with my long-suffering girlfriend as the "attacker". They prove absolutely nothing except that this was our subjective impression, and probably has zero relevance to a real life situation. In fact, the whole subject of light as a force option is highly controversial.

If I had to sum up what I've learned from CPF, Strategos and other sources about the confrontational usefulness of light it would probably be this:

Sudden application of very powerful focused light in the dark-adapted eyes of an attacker or potential attacker may provoke a variety of reactions ranging from a complete stop to no reaction or even to rage. The average reaction is likely to be a momentary distraction long enough to permit the defender to deploy a weapon or less lethal tool, or for a potential victim to effect an escape. A bright light, by itself, should never be relied upon as the only self defense modality, even though it may serve that function in isolated cases.

Anyway, that's my take on it.

Brightnorm

Let me try with my L4 in my right eye, and my 6P in my left eye... here goes...

Jelp O cam't see amythong! O'm blond!

David <><

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RevDavid said:
Let me try with my L4 in my right eye, and my 6P in my left eye... here goes...

Jelp O cam't see amythong! O'm blond!

David <><

[/ QUOTE ]

You just discovered that you are blonde?

Wow...do you live in a cave? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

Norm:

Thanks so much for the great post.

Just FYI, I do not plan on relying on light alone as a defensive tool. That is obviously foolish.

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Drjones said:



You just discovered that you are blonde?

Wow...do you live in a cave? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

[/ QUOTE ]


LOL

David <><

Dye your hair pink and turquoise... you won't be blond(e) for long. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif