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Thread: Leatherman Charge/Wave - any problems with police?

  1. #1
    Flashaholic
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    Question Leatherman Charge/Wave - any problems with police?

    These have lockable knifes almost 3 inches long - are there any legal problem carrying multitools?

    Any one ever get harrased?

  2. #2

    Default Re: Leatherman Charge/Wave - any problems with police?

    Locking blades are fine, just as long as you have to completely fold open the handles before accessing them. But yes, in some jurisdictions a Leatherman Wave can get you into trouble. In NYC we have the vague-as-Hell Sullivan Act that bans gravity knives. The cops are applying it against modern-day knives that open thanks to a thumb stud, hole, or disk; with a lock mechanism.

    I can guarantee that it's only a matter of time before they go after blue collar working stiffs that use their multi-tools on the job. While a Leatherman Blast is okay, you might get in trouble with something like a Wave. Due to the fact that the blades can be opened without having to first unfold the handles.

    Thankfully, America isn't New York. And that type of pure B.S. currently being practiced by the NYPD has not infected the rest of the nation. Generally speaking, if you know you live in a place that is not knife-friendly; select your multi-tool accordingly. (Such as a Blast over a Wave.)
    "The World is insane. With tiny spots of sanity, here and there... Not the other way around!" - John Cleese.

  3. #3
    Flashaholic* sappyg's Avatar
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    Default Re: Leatherman Charge/Wave - any problems with police?

    Quote Originally Posted by iocheretyanny View Post
    These have lockable knifes almost 3 inches long - are there any legal problem carrying multitools?

    Any one ever get harrased?
    like monocrom suggests the question is probably region specific. i would check local laws in your area to be certain.

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Leatherman Charge/Wave - any problems with police?

    Definitely region specific. Here in Texas a knife (any length or configuration) is just a tool and is not considered a weapon unless the user is threatening/harming somebody with it.

  5. #5

    Default Re: Leatherman Charge/Wave - any problems with police?

    The NY state laws and NYC laws differ... and the NYC laws are even more ridiculously nonsensical than the state laws.

    I had a guy at a knife & blade shop explain it to me once last year but I don't remember most of it now.

  6. #6

    Default Re: Leatherman Charge/Wave - any problems with police?

    Yep the NYC laws are ridiculous but if I lived in certain neighborhoods I wouldn't give a crap about what the laws are because my life is more dear to me than having to explain myself to the cops.
    Life is good

  7. #7

    Default Re: Leatherman Charge/Wave - any problems with police?

    From my understanding the NYC laws are the NY state laws.

    It is how NYC interpreted these laws that is causing problems for dealers and owners

  8. #8

    Default Re: Leatherman Charge/Wave - any problems with police?

    I wouldn't worry about it. A knife is, under all definitions, a tool. Therefore it is not a weapon. If a cop harasses you about a multi-tool, get a good lawyer and take the cop(s)/police office to court. If you don't stand up for your rights, someone will take them away.

    Chances are, if you can buy it in wal-mart then the PD won't have a leg to stand on. For if such carry is illegal, then selling said item would be, in a sense, entrapment. Allowing everyday people buy an item that can have them get arrested. You can't buy crack at public store, which means there is a real effort to keep it out of the public's hands.

    I carry, on a daily basis, a cold steel pocket bushman, it has a 4 1/4 blade. It is a great everyday tool, they are only about $30, and are simple and strong. I owned one for about a year and a half before I broke it by prying on something . Before I owned that knife I carried a butterfly knife (for the superior strength of the blade while open). Both knives I carry because they can take a lot of weight before the blade comes back at your fingers.

    The fact I have a reasonable excuse for carrying such a tool is a great argument I have never been bothered while carrying my bushman, but I did get into trouble with the butterfly knife. I explained why I carried that knife, then asked the officer why a butterfly knife was considered more threatening then say a (because he had one) Gerber Gator? He didn't know why, but was amused by the fact I didn't carry my knife just to look cool, but that I actually cared about function. He didn't even give me a warning.

    These are three guidelines I go by when carrying my knife:

    1) A knife is a tool, not a weapon. Knives can be used as weapons, but my knife is a tool. If ever it becomes a weapon in my hands, it will be in self defense.
    2) If it is considered a weapon by others, I have a right to carry it. I have a right to keep and to bear arms. Beyond that, it is my God given right to protect myself, my family, my property, and others. No one can take that right without being on the opposing end of my defense.
    3) Know your knife, or other tool. Knowledge of you tool will allow you to know how to use is appropriately, and if ever you must, defend the use of it.

  9. #9

    Default Re: Leatherman Charge/Wave - any problems with police?

    Things work a bit differently in NYC. For example, you can definitely still buy a one-hander with a thumb stud, disk, or hole along with a pocket-carry clip. Perfectly legal to buy it. You slip that same knife onto the top of your pocket, and you're just begging to get arrested. They'll charge you with the B.S. interpretation of the broad as Hell Sullivan Act which bans gravity knives.

    Sure you can fight it. But not everyone has the money to do that.

    Common sense also doesn't apply to the NYPD and those running it. As proof, the good mayor's speech regarding why concealed carry of handguns would make criminals in the city extremely happy. Talk about someone who has no clue what he's doing.
    "The World is insane. With tiny spots of sanity, here and there... Not the other way around!" - John Cleese.

  10. #10

    Default Re: Leatherman Charge/Wave - any problems with police?

    To be fair I know nothing of NYC. I live in a "hick" town where if I walked into wal-mart (ok maybe not wal-mart, but tractor supply) during hunting season with a shotgun on my shoulder I wouldn't get into trouble. And we don't have open carry laws.

    Sounds like in ole NY you need someone who will take a stand against gross manipulation of the law. A gravity knife is one that uses gravity to be opened, basically a "loose" knife. You can tighten up the blade screws on a butterfly knife and it would no longer be a "gravity" knife, it would take two hands to open (Cold Steel makes two such knives) . But then again like monocrom said, who has the money to fight. It will take the act of an outsider who has no concern for silly little laws like this, that will bring their house crumbling down. But until I can get to NYC, just try to stay out of trouble.

    iocheretyanny, find out what your local laws say (good luck). Doing so is difficult, here in florida, I cannot find any definitive laws. They change from State, to county, to city, even to precincts. so I have no idea what the legal "carry" size is. If you act responsibly you are less apt to get into trouble. One good idea is to just go by the sheriffs dept and ask. Find your sheriff and tell him you don't want to get into trouble, so you would like to know if this is an ok knife to carry. He will tell you, heck he may even laugh at you, but if push-comes-to-shove you can always say, "The sheriff said it was ok to carry." That may not be the best defense, but in court, asking the sheriff -who knows the law better than you- would be a solid argument.

  11. #11
    Flashaholic* parnass's Avatar
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    Default Re: Leatherman Charge/Wave - any problems with police?

    Quote Originally Posted by Monocrom View Post
    ... In NYC we have the vague-as-Hell Sullivan Act that bans gravity knives. The cops are applying it against modern-day knives that open thanks to a thumb stud, hole, or disk; with a lock mechanism.
    ...
    The current issue of Blade Magazine contains an article devoted to New York City's knife law enforcement situation -- very disturbing.
    Retired engineer, author. Running Linux.

  12. #12

    Default Re: Leatherman Charge/Wave - any problems with police?

    i live in nyc, carry wave all the time, for 10+ years, no problems yet, thou i cover it with t-shirt, all my belt with keys, lights, tool, phone, all concealed, i pass by dozens of cops a day.
    when i had to go to city hall, i tried to walk in with all my stuff on the belt, i totally forgot about it, cops told me to go outside, and give my wave to a cop in the booth, so i did, after i was done, i got my wave back.

    technically cops can arrest you for it, and you will have to get a lawyer, and no you can't take cop to court for harassing you, he wont harass you, he'll arrest you. funny someone can think they will sue a cop for it, lol.
    however, if you are a mechanic, or a someone that uses it for work, and don't look like a crackhead or a gangsta, cops wont harass you. for leatherman at least. especially if they don't see it.

    and also if you live in certain neighborhoods, wave wont help you,
    you will get shot before you open the blade. or knocked down and sliced with your own blade.
    if someone attacks you there, it will be few ppl, and they wont be jumping you with their bare hands.
    acting like a hero will get you killed in certain NYC neighborhoods.

  13. #13

    Exclamation Re: Leatherman Charge/Wave - any problems with police?

    Quote Originally Posted by parnass View Post
    The current issue of Blade Magazine contains an article devoted to New York City's knife law enforcement situation -- very disturbing.
    I'm literally amazed it took any of the big three knife publications this long to report on what is happening. The absolute pure B.S. has been now going on in NYC for at least the past 5 years, if not longer.
    "The World is insane. With tiny spots of sanity, here and there... Not the other way around!" - John Cleese.

  14. #14

    Default Re: Leatherman Charge/Wave - any problems with police?

    iocheretyanny, I do not suggest using a wave as protection. (Just in case that is what Alpg88 was getting at.) I was merely stating how you should perceive any knife. As Alpg88 proved by his testimony, if you use it wisely, you will probably stay out of trouble.

    Alpg88, cops do harass people, and can be sued for such harassment. I have a "speed-trap" about 10 miles south of me, and when those guys write speeding tickets, they do so (most of the time) wrongfully. So many complaints come from how those guys do business that the county judges will throw out the ticket if you will take it to court as opposed to paying it. A cop that sees a pocket clip, and then assumes you to be carrying a weapon, then makes you empty your pockets, is spitting distance from harassment. I would feel harassed if I were carrying a light and was forced to empty my pockets just because a cop felt I might have a weapon. It is a blind tactic of hit and miss, just like when a cop asks if they can search your car during a routine traffic stop. They have no reason to do so, other than, to see if they can get you on anything else. If you give them permission, you are waiving your rights. But some feel if you don't, then that makes them suspicious, and then the cop has a reason to search your car. Not so, denying to give up your rights is far from being a criminal. And their "suspicion" does not warrant a search and seizure.

    Then again I live in Florida, things are very different here. Also sorry about the rant, but people just don't realize that they give up their rights on a daily basis. Once again, learn and know your local laws. And recognize when a cop has gone beyond his/her duties.

  15. #15

    Default Re: Leatherman Charge/Wave - any problems with police?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jasonthephoneboy View Post
    iocheretyanny, I do not suggest using a wave as protection. (Just in case that is what Alpg88 was getting at.) I was merely stating how you should perceive any knife. As Alpg88 proved by his testimony, if you use it wisely, you will probably stay out of trouble.

    Alpg88, cops do harass people, and can be sued for such harassment. I have a "speed-trap" about 10 miles south of me, and when those guys write speeding tickets, they do so (most of the time) wrongfully. So many complaints come from how those guys do business that the county judges will throw out the ticket if you will take it to court as opposed to paying it. A cop that sees a pocket clip, and then assumes you to be carrying a weapon, then makes you empty your pockets, is spitting distance from harassment. I would feel harassed if I were carrying a light and was forced to empty my pockets just because a cop felt I might have a weapon. It is a blind tactic of hit and miss, just like when a cop asks if they can search your car during a routine traffic stop. They have no reason to do so, other than, to see if they can get you on anything else. If you give them permission, you are waiving your rights. But some feel if you don't, then that makes them suspicious, and then the cop has a reason to search your car. Not so, denying to give up your rights is far from being a criminal. And their "suspicion" does not warrant a search and seizure.

    Then again I live in Florida, things are very different here. Also sorry about the rant, but people just don't realize that they give up their rights on a daily basis. Once again, learn and know your local laws. And recognize when a cop has gone beyond his/her duties.
    well if a cop genuinely harasses you on regular basis , you can sue him, but not for searching you, i mean you are welcome to try, police unions have plenty of lawyers, and judges are almost always on cop's side. you stand no chance.

  16. #16

    Default Re: Leatherman Charge/Wave - any problems with police?

    i found out that good portion of arrests for gravity knives is for folding utility knives, same ones electrician\carpenters.. use everyday for work, very often workers would go out to launch, with tools in their pocket, and get stopped and arrested. there is good news, some of those utility folding knives have double action, folding action, and sliding action. in order to open it you have to flick it open, and then slide blade out. so it blade can't be exposed with 1 flick.

  17. #17
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    Default Re: Leatherman Charge/Wave - any problems with police?

    After reading all of this I just wanted to say Iím sorry some of you all have to live in the places you do.
    hunter, fisherman, flashlight enthusiast

  18. #18
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    Default Re: Leatherman Charge/Wave - any problems with police?

    We just had a very similar thread closed for baiting / flaming / politics.

    Let's not bump an ancient thread on the same topic, especially as the specifics change over time, and what was relevant in 2010 may not be current.

    Thanks for your understanding.
    ... is the archimedes peak

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