LED Lanser When ?

Albinoni

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I really hope LED Lenser will read this post but my main Q here is "When is LED Lenser going to release a torch thar will take/accept CR123 type batts, this means normal CR123s and RCR 123's as well.

Almost most other torchlight companies that are out there inc out chinese counterparts like JetBeam, Fenix, 4Sevens Quark etc etc have got models that accept the CR123 type batts.

Is LED Lenser still in the dark ages or what ??
 

maxilux

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Why should they do it, they sell so much, i think it is ok for them.
And please dont forget, LED Lenser is a German brand (not the Factory, i know)
In Germany the CR123 are not so public as in the USA, the are very expensive here for the most People, when you buy it in an normal shop.
Then there is a simple way, dont buy LED Lenser.
 

Duglum

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I guess it's correct as maxilux put it. Led Lensers are mostly bought by people who don't know much about flashlights and how overpriced they are. They do care about battery costs though. And since a single CR123A in a German Hardware-Store or whereever is about 8-9€ (about $11 atm)... take a guess. ;)

There are some very old LED Lenser Models (about 10+ years) that use CR132A though.. have seen a picture of one in the German "Knife Forum" (messerforum.net, they also have a flashlight section).
 

kramer5150

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I really hope LED Lenser will read this post but my main Q here is "When is LED Lenser going to release a torch thar will take/accept CR123 type batts, this means normal CR123s and RCR 123's as well.

Almost most other torchlight companies that are out there inc out chinese counterparts like JetBeam, Fenix, 4Sevens Quark etc etc have got models that accept the CR123 type batts.

Is LED Lenser still in the dark ages or what ??

I don't think so.... their products use standard alkaline batteries that everyone around the world can easily obtain. If I were to ask ~100 people at random to pick between light A-2xCR123 and light B-3AA/2AA/2AAA the overwhelming majority would choose light B. So their designs make good sense.

On a more technical note the Cree XPG has a Vf of only 3.2V. If this is a downward trend that continues, as LEDs evolve, it will allow better performance from lower voltage battery types. LL will be one of the only manufacturers to capitalize on that across the majority of their products. LEDs are also emitting more light from less current. As this trend continues to push the envelope it will further lessen the need for exotic cell types and chemistries.

(devil's advocate) Personally I think everyone else is behind the times. LL is the only (reputable) company I know that makes an aluminum body 3AA and 4AA/AAA light in a round cylinder format. IMHO DX junk and showerhead lights do not make the grade.

(EDIT... heres a copy-paste from another thread)

I was at the Strategies in Light convention ~2 (maybe 3.. I cant remember the year) years ago, chatting with the Fraen technical staff. We started talking about flashlights (of course). I pulled out my SF-M2 which had a DIY drop and proudly showed him my DIY handi-work. We started talking about the cree rings and how I can eliminate them... Then he pulled out a 3AAA prototype flood-to throw light that Fraen was working on in conjunction with a "big name" flashlight manufacturer. It was plain aluminum, with no knurl or anodize. It had a GREAT, high quality flood to throw optic system, that you just pull in and out the bezel. Comparing it to my DIY build... I'd say the two were in the same Lumen ballpark, ~150L, but it was impossible to judge on the convention floor.

I begged him to tell me which manufacturer they were working with... I named all the big dogs... Olight, Fenix, Jetbeam, surefire. But he just put on his poker face, and I respected that completely. I felt very privileged to have been given a sneek peak. He was very careful, when he showed it to me... cradling it in his hand and not letting anyone else see it. That engineer (whos name I forget) is a CPF member and lurks these halls as a member of the trade. Yes.. .we did talk about CPF a little too.

2-3 months later Coast/Lenser relased the 3AAA P7... with the same flood to throw optic system.

I am very positive that it was Lenser who Fraen was working with. As LL is the only manufacturer to conceive a design like this. Others have copied and cloned it, but LL is the design origin, having invested in the R&D partnership with Fraen (I speculate). I don't see how this could be seen as being behind the times.

Also FWIW.. they make several lights that use N cells, coin cells, button cells and even AAAA. So they too have some odd-ball cell lights to pick from. Personally I am not a fan of their designs... but for other reasons not because they don't have a CR123 light. My only real complaint is that they do not export the "M" series lights to North America. The M14 is on my want list.
 
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Albinoni

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My main point here is not for LL to just concerntrate on AA/AAA whatever but to build flashlight/torches that accept or use AA/AAA and CR123's.

Its alright for people to say AA's and AAA's are very ready available but I can rest assure alot of people and especially those really into flashlights would rather pay the extra $$$ and use a CR123 type batt mainly for the following reason:

1. Longer shelf life
2. Better voltage range and peak.
3. Prob wont leak as quick
4. Can maintain their voltage even in cold temps
5. 1xCR123 will prob still output more power than 2xAA's and yet still keep the torch small and simple.

6. Output run time (on low) will also prob be longer.

I am not saying that AA torches or AAA are bed because I do have a LL P7 and love it plus others as well eg fenix, jetbeam, surefire etc etc and my flashlights take both AA/AAA and CR123 type batts.
 

kramer5150

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... Oh... I agree on that. Flexible designs and multi-cell designs are very nice. The RC-N3-Q5 is still one of my favorite lights, even though it is a bit out dated by todays CPF standards.
In your post, you asked "Is LED Lenser still in the dark ages or what ??". This is a very broad generalized question, hence my broad/general reply. No hard feelings I hope. I was going to edit out my reply above, but I think theres some good info there regarding LL in general. If you want I will delete it if you think it derails your thread off topic. Sorry about that.
 
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maxilux

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My main point here is not for LL to just concerntrate on AA/AAA whatever but to build flashlight/torches that accept or use AA/AAA and CR123's.

Its alright for people to say AA's and AAA's are very ready available but I can rest assure alot of people and especially those really into flashlights would rather pay the extra $$$ and use a CR123 type batt mainly for the following reason:

1. Longer shelf life
2. Better voltage range and peak.
3. Prob wont leak as quick
4. Can maintain their voltage even in cold temps
5. 1xCR123 will prob still output more power than 2xAA's and yet still keep the torch small and simple.

6. Output run time (on low) will also prob be longer.

I am not saying that AA torches or AAA are bed because I do have a LL P7 and love it plus others as well eg fenix, jetbeam, surefire etc etc and my flashlights take both AA/AAA and CR123 type batts.

Ok, but why must it be a LL, there is nothing speacial. I think there are enough other good (or better) brands with Lights you can use.
 

GadgetGeek

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Led Lensers are mostly bought by people who don't know much about flashlights and how overpriced they are.
Hi

New here, first post and flashlight noob. Can you please explain why you think the LED Lensers are overpriced? My Coast LED Lenser 7736 blows away my Fenix LD20. The Fenix was more expensive...:confused:
 

Monocrom

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I'm sure if LL decided it was worth it to release a bunch of CR123 powered lights, they would. If they thought there was enough profit in it for them to release such a line of lights, they would. It's likely that the idea to do so has already been proposed by an executive at LL. Apparently those who are in charge of the company have decided that it's simply not worth it. Too much to spend on R&D in exchange for projected profits.

It's just business. Sometimes it's best to stay the course. Sometimes it's a good idea to take calculated risks. Seems LL came to the conclusion that at the current time, it's best to stay the course.
 

Albinoni

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Ok, but why must it be a LL, there is nothing speacial. I think there are enough other good (or better) brands with Lights you can use.

Why ? Well lets take a look at the Chinese counterparts such as JetBeam, Fenix, Nitecore, Quark you name it. In terms of batteries they make torches that use:

1. AA
2. AAA
3. CR123
4. RCR123
5. LiION 18650
6. LiIon 14500

Even I think there is one small torch from 4sevens that takes a smaller batt than a CR123, sorry cant recall what type of batt it is.

Also is the output run time of a CR123 longer than that of a AA or AAA ?

So are manufacturers like Fenix, JB, Nitecore etc ahead of the times than Led Lenser ?
 

jupello

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So are manufacturers like Fenix, JB, Nitecore etc ahead of the times than Led Lenser ?

No. They hardly offer anything that would make them be ahead LL. Only some small intuitions in the looks/UI mostly, which some might or might not prefer. LL is one of the few brands that have actually invested into developing some new functionality to their lights (the adjustable optics) unlike many other companies.

And as Crossliner67 already mentioned, they DO make CR123 light(s) too, for example the LL M1 model + some older ones that most likely are not worth mentioning.
 

crossliner67

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I don't think so.... their products use standard alkaline batteries that everyone around the world can easily obtain. If I were to ask ~100 people at random to pick between light A-2xCR123 and light B-3AA/2AA/2AAA the overwhelming majority would choose light B. So their designs make good sense.

On a more technical note the Cree XPG has a Vf of only 3.2V. If this is a downward trend that continues, as LEDs evolve, it will allow better performance from lower voltage battery types. LL will be one of the only manufacturers to capitalize on that across the majority of their products. LEDs are also emitting more light from less current. As this trend continues to push the envelope it will further lessen the need for exotic cell types and chemistries.

(devil's advocate) Personally I think everyone else is behind the times. LL is the only (reputable) company I know that makes an aluminum body 3AA and 4AA/AAA light in a round cylinder format. IMHO DX junk and showerhead lights do not make the grade.

(EDIT... heres a copy-paste from another thread)

I was at the Strategies in Light convention ~2 (maybe 3.. I cant remember the year) years ago, chatting with the Fraen technical staff. We started talking about flashlights (of course). I pulled out my SF-M2 which had a DIY drop and proudly showed him my DIY handi-work. We started talking about the cree rings and how I can eliminate them... Then he pulled out a 3AAA prototype flood-to throw light that Fraen was working on in conjunction with a "big name" flashlight manufacturer. It was plain aluminum, with no knurl or anodize. It had a GREAT, high quality flood to throw optic system, that you just pull in and out the bezel. Comparing it to my DIY build... I'd say the two were in the same Lumen ballpark, ~150L, but it was impossible to judge on the convention floor.

I begged him to tell me which manufacturer they were working with... I named all the big dogs... Olight, Fenix, Jetbeam, surefire. But he just put on his poker face, and I respected that completely. I felt very privileged to have been given a sneek peak. He was very careful, when he showed it to me... cradling it in his hand and not letting anyone else see it. That engineer (whos name I forget) is a CPF member and lurks these halls as a member of the trade. Yes.. .we did talk about CPF a little too.

2-3 months later Coast/Lenser relased the 3AAA P7... with the same flood to throw optic system.

I am very positive that it was Lenser who Fraen was working with. As LL is the only manufacturer to conceive a design like this. Others have copied and cloned it, but LL is the design origin, having invested in the R&D partnership with Fraen (I speculate). I don't see how this could be seen as being behind the times.

Also FWIW.. they make several lights that use N cells, coin cells, button cells and even AAAA. So they too have some odd-ball cell lights to pick from. Personally I am not a fan of their designs... but for other reasons not because they don't have a CR123 light. My only real complaint is that they do not export the "M" series lights to North America. The M14 is on my want list.
We have 1 here in the Philippines as in the only 1 being sold by ledlenserphilippines. I was about to buy it but the seller told me it has a scratch on the tailcap. It was sent here for evaluation purposes. Their optics is really incredible I must say. I have tried the M7 against bigger throwers like the Skyline 1, the uncollimated Tiablo A9, Fenix TK11 R2 and the latest TK12 and the Lumapower VX w/ turbo head and it all beats them in throw.
 

kramer5150

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Also is the output run time of a CR123 longer than that of a AA or AAA ?
Far too many variables for a definitive statement one way or another. Run time of the light depends more on the light design than the cell used.

CR123 cell is about 658 Watts per cubic cm
AA NiMH cell is about 31 Watts per cubic cm
(someone double check my math) So the CR123 packs more power into a smaller volume and thus is superior in this regard.

There was a thread a few weeks ago where another member was asking about light efficiency in terms of Lumens per hour, is this what you meant by "output run time"?... we had some discussion on that in this thread.

So are manufacturers like Fenix, JB, Nitecore etc ahead of the times than Led Lenser ?
In terms of cell types used, and LL not exporting their only current production CR123 light I would have to say that LL is behind the other brands.
 
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mcnair55

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I guess it's correct as maxilux put it. Led Lensers are mostly bought by people who don't know much about flashlights and how overpriced they are. They do care about battery costs though. And since a single CR123A in a German Hardware-Store or whereever is about 8-9€ (about $11 atm)... take a guess. ;)

There are some very old LED Lenser Models (about 10+ years) that use CR132A though.. have seen a picture of one in the German "Knife Forum" (messerforum.net, they also have a flashlight section).

You are actually shooting yourself,you are stating mostly bought by people who don't know much about flashlights and how overpriced they are.Overpriced to you maybe but to the buyer in the street that is the price tag in the shop window.

Lets us take a battery and gadget shop near me in my old home of Berlin,the window display consists of batteries and chargers for nearly anything plus a rotating LL stand.I see a nice light for 50 euro so I either buy or walk away,now as a member of cpf I know different.

Led Lenser are probably one of the biggest suppliers of lights in the world because they have been good at marketing and unlike other makers actually move a massive amount of product via bricks and mortar stores.

The 123 battery is also expensive in the UK and AAA/AA are by far the most bought battery.
 

red02

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My main point here is not for LL to just concerntrate on AA/AAA whatever but to build flashlight/torches that accept or use AA/AAA and CR123's.

Its alright for people to say AA's and AAA's are very ready available but I can rest assure alot of people and especially those really into flashlights would rather pay the extra $$$ and use a CR123 type batt mainly for the following reason:
...

I think that flashlight enthusiasts are in the minority so far as purchasing power goes. Companies will often try to appeal to the largest possible consumer base for their products. The vast majority of potential customers gawk at paying 2-3 dollars for disposable cells. Not to mention that Li-Ions are more complicated and dangerous than any NiHM or AA recharging solution that people are mindful of.

CR123s may be better but they are not the ubiquitous battery type thats everywhere.
 

Dark Laser

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My Coast LED Lenser 7736 blows away my Fenix LD20. The Fenix was more expensive...:confused:
Sorry...can you repeat that? :huh:

You actually mean the 7736 using three AAA Batteries? And you mean that the overall brightness of the LL is higher? Then something must be very wrong with your LD20, I guess. I just cannot believe that the LD20 should not be brighter than the 7736. At least the Turbo mode should put discussions to an end :shrug:

My (six year old) 7736 is brighter (although it has nearly no flood for short range illumination) and has a longer beam range than the LD20 - but only because I modded it with a Cree XP-G Q5 (warm white). Before, it was quite nice, but dim (had the Luxeon I) compared to newer lights.
 

Egsise

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I must addit that Led Lenser knows what they are doing, for the masses the AA/AAA is perfect.
So many LL users swear that the runtimes are several dozen hours, which is great for those who don't have a good stock of batteries.
Cheap and simple to manufacture, so they can offer a 10y warranty.

Why even bother designing a well regulated or some exotic battery using flashlight?
 
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