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Thread: Philips LED bike light

  1. #121
    Flashaholic* Steve K's Avatar
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    Default Re: Philips LED bike light

    For the sake of efficiency, it would be nice to just have this converter drive the LED directly, but.. this is a voltage regulator, and you need a current regulator to drive a LED. I would recommend just using it as you originally described; just use it to replace the battery power.

  2. #122

    Default Re: Philips LED bike light

    Quote Originally Posted by Steve K View Post
    For the sake of efficiency, it would be nice to just have this converter drive the LED directly, but.. this is a voltage regulator, and you need a current regulator to drive a LED. I would recommend just using it as you originally described; just use it to replace the battery power.
    Yes it might certainly be better to drive the led directly but this involves modifications that are beyond my skills. The voltage regulator trick appears much simpler to me.

    I found a possibly better converters on ebay at a fraction of the cost. The output voltage is 5V with max 2A or 3A.

    5V 2A: ebay item 321228777259
    5V 3A: ebay item 261325172838

    Now a few remaining questions regarding this:

    1) do I need a fuse between the battery and the DC converter? What rating (A)? I want to prevent large draws from the battery in case anything goes wrong...

    2) if the DC converter is faulty at some point it will send 36V to the light. Any way to protect the light from this?

    3) does the voltage regulator eat power also when the light is off?? If yes I'd need to install a switch between the voltage regulator and the battery to prevent drawing power when I do not use the light...

    4) with this mod, would the light still turn off after 45 min due to the internal timer in the light? Actually HakanC got this while using a 5V converter. Is the 45 min limit dependant on the voltage i.e. if I use a 6V converter will the timer limit move beyond 45min?

    5) Is 2A enough to power the philips light in full beam? From an earlier post each led is 0.7A so this should work but is 2A enough for a safety margin or should I get a converter with max 3A? The setup in post #46 was using a 2A converter so that shoul be ok.

    6) Do i need a zener and a resistor (as the setup pictured in poist #46). Actually I do not understand the purpose of these. Does the voltage really needs to be cut down to 4.7V or would the 5V at the output if the converter just work as well?

    Sounds like a doable modification to me Maybe I can even install the converter inside the light as well but it is 18mm thick whereas AA batteries are 14.5mm so it might just be too much though. But that is not a critical point.

    Thanks for your help!
    Last edited by kilou; 11-09-2013 at 01:57 AM.

  3. #123
    Flashaholic* Steve K's Avatar
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    Default Re: Philips LED bike light

    Quote Originally Posted by kilou View Post
    Yes it might certainly be better to drive the led directly but this involves modifications that are beyond my skills. The voltage regulator trick appears much simpler to me.

    I found a possibly better converters on ebay at a fraction of the cost. The output voltage is 5V with max 2A or 3A.

    5V 2A: ebay item 321228777259
    5V 3A: ebay item 261325172838

    Now a few remaining questions regarding this:

    1) do I need a fuse between the battery and the DC converter? What rating (A)? I want to prevent large draws from the battery in case anything goes wrong...
    If you do use a fuse, the current draw will be much less than an amp. Without the ability to actually measure the current, I'd say you should start with a small fuse and if it blows during normal use, replace it with a larger size.

    Quote Originally Posted by kilou View Post
    2) if the DC converter is faulty at some point it will send 36V to the light. Any way to protect the light from this?
    You could add a crowbar circuit in conjunction with the fuse, but this just adds complexity. Adding complexity just means increasing the chance of a failure. Honestly, the same problem applies to the switching power supply that came with the light. If it fails, it could kill the LED.

    Quote Originally Posted by kilou View Post
    3) does the voltage regulator eat power also when the light is off?? If yes I'd need to install a switch between the voltage regulator and the battery to prevent drawing power when I do not use the light...
    Yes, the switching regulator will draw power if there is voltage present at its input. A switch will be needed.

    Quote Originally Posted by kilou View Post
    4) with this mod, would the light still turn off after 45 min due to the internal timer in the light? Actually HakanC got this while using a 5V converter. Is the 45 min limit dependant on the voltage i.e. if I use a 6V converter will the timer limit move beyond 45min?
    Using a voltage regulator won't change how the light works. I don't know what affects the timer.

    Quote Originally Posted by kilou View Post
    5) Is 2A enough to power the philips light in full beam? From an earlier post each led is 0.7A so this should work but is 2A enough for a safety margin or should I get a converter with max 3A? The setup in post #46 was using a 2A converter so that shoul be ok.
    The regulator's output current rating needs to be adequate for the expected load. Measure the actual current draw if you can. If not, try to have some margin.

    Quote Originally Posted by kilou View Post
    6) Do i need a zener and a resistor (as the setup pictured in poist #46). Actually I do not understand the purpose of these. Does the voltage really needs to be cut down to 4.7V or would the 5V at the output if the converter just work as well?
    It wasn't clear what he was doing with the zener and resistor, but I'm assuming he was using it to reduce the voltage feeding into the voltage regulator. That is an unusual arrangement. I could spend a while discussing the relative merits of shunt vs. series regulators, but let's just say that the best approach is to make sure that your voltage regulator is rated for the range of voltages that your battery may operate at.

    Quote Originally Posted by kilou View Post
    Sounds like a doable modification to me Maybe I can even install the converter inside the light as well but it is 18mm thick whereas AA batteries are 14.5mm so it might just be too much though. But that is not a critical point.

    Thanks for your help!
    Last edited by Steve K; 11-09-2013 at 04:46 AM.

  4. #124

    Default Re: Philips LED bike light

    Thanks Steve K, that's helpful! I think I'll bite the bullet and get one of these lights as they are now on sale for 72 euros on roseversand.de. I'll get the DC converter (not yet sure between 2A and 3A but 2A seems sufficient), a few wires, a fuse, a switch and a waterproof connector and hook the light to my ebike battery. That's going to mean virtually infinite runtime, or at least I'll have no more motor assist long before the light will go off Really looking forward to use it as my current dynamo powered BM IQ Fly 40 lux light is really weak in the dark.

    Thanks again for all the great tips!

    EDIT: would you have some recommendations regarding which connectors to use between the battery and DC converter and between the DC converter and the light (I'd need a quick release for the latter but all needs to be waterproof)? Any place online where to get these connectors?
    Last edited by kilou; 11-09-2013 at 08:20 AM.

  5. #125
    Flashaholic* Steve K's Avatar
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    Default Re: Philips LED bike light

    Quote Originally Posted by kilou View Post
    EDIT: would you have some recommendations regarding which connectors to use between the battery and DC converter and between the DC converter and the light (I'd need a quick release for the latter but all needs to be waterproof)? Any place online where to get these connectors?
    This is a subject that gets reviewed periodically. You might try doing a search.

    I personally don't use waterproof connectors, but I don't spend much time in the rain. A bit of dielectric grease on unprotected connectors does reduce the likelihood of corrosion, and I think you can still pick up a small tube of it from Radio Shack.

    Some people use automotive connectors. From a professional perspective, these are still pretty cheap and not all that waterproof, but better than just dielectric grease.

    In my professional life in the world of big yellow machines, we use a lot of Deutsch connectors, specifically the DT series:
    http://www.deutschconnector.com/prod...es_connectors/
    They are well made, the connector pins are high quality and have good plating, and there are good seals to minimize the entry of water.

    You can also peruse the electronics catalogs such as Digi-key, Mouser, Jameco, Newark, etc.
    Maybe check the hobby shop too... I wonder what the RC folks are using nowadays??

  6. #126

    Default Re: Philips LED bike light

    One problem you will have if you are just replacing the batteries with an external power source, and using the original Philips electronics:
    The Philips electronics have a timer system that will shut off the light after about 2 hours, at which point you need to disconnect the power source and reconnect it.
    It also monitors charging of the batteries, so I don't know how it would handle an external battery pack for this.

  7. #127

    Default Re: Philips LED bike light

    Quote Originally Posted by Matt King View Post
    One problem you will have if you are just replacing the batteries with an external power source, and using the original Philips electronics:
    The Philips electronics have a timer system that will shut off the light after about 2 hours, at which point you need to disconnect the power source and reconnect it.
    It also monitors charging of the batteries, so I don't know how it would handle an external battery pack for this.
    I've read there is a timer and actually it was mentionned earlier in the discussion that the timer would trigger the low beam after 45 min, not 2 hours. Anyway for me that's not an issue as I'll install a switch next to the DC converter and will be able to quickly on/off the power at the handlebar this way. Doing this every 45 min is not a problem for me, at least it is less important than being limited to a runtime of max 2 hours with the 4 AA batteries. Furthermore it seems that the new version of the Saferide will switch to low mode only once but after it will let you go back to high beam and not trigger low beams anymore. I hope my light will behave this way but even if it doesn't it is no problem for me. The light has been ordered on sunday so it should arrive soon!

  8. #128

    Default Re: Philips LED bike light

    These seem really nice but they are huge and have an awkward shape. Do you current users find any challenges in mounting these?

  9. #129

    Default Re: Philips LED bike light

    Hi,

    I got the Saferide 80 Lux and it works great! As discussed here I'm now planning to mod it in order to hook it to my 36V e-bike battery. For this I bought a DC voltage regulator (http://www.ebay.com/itm/LM2576HV-LM2...item2a344a80e0) that's currently on its way from far East This converter should just fit in the battery housing of the light. Now I'd need your help for a few other details, especially wire size since I'm not used to read AWG wire size tables:

    1) Wire size (battery to DC converter): the DC voltage converter will convert 36V (max 42V) into 5V with a max output current of 3A (which should be more than enough to power the Philips light), so that's 15W max. Since I intend to install the converter in the battery housing of the light, the wire between the e-bike battery and the light will have to carry 15W at 36V so that's approximately 400mA. What wire size (AWG, diameter mm etc) should I use to safely achieve this without too much losses? Note that the wires will be fed into the downtube so they'll not be air cooled (don't know whether that's of any help here though...).

    2) Wire size (DC converter to light): As writtent above the DC converter will output max 3A at 5V (probably that the light will need only 2A on high beams). Therefore I suppose that the wires going from the output of the DC converter to the light should be larger than those going from the e-bike battery to the input of the DC converter, is that correct? Do you have recommendations regarding the proper wire size to use here?

    3) Fuse: I will install a fuse near the battery on the wire that goes to the converter. I'll probably use a 400mA or 500mA fuse. Do you have any recommendation about an appropriate waterproof fuse box that I could get? Any link? Those inline fuses that I've seen on Ebay don't seem waterproof (except those for higher amps but I only need a 400-500mA fuse...)

    I still need to find a good waterproof plug to connect the light to the cable that runs from the e-bike battery to make it detachable. Still looking for good solutions here! I'm unsure whether a simple male-female USB connection would do it, what do you think?


    Thanks a lot!



    Quote Originally Posted by dwmckee View Post
    These seem really nice but they are huge and have an awkward shape. Do you current users find any challenges in mounting these?
    The shape of the light is fine for me, it is a bit bulky but you get a good light beam due to the larger reflector. I have some problem with the 3D mount as it doesn't seem to support the weight of the like. However the light did come with both the 3D mount and a regular mount (without rotation capabilities) and that mount appears better. I still need to find a better mounting solution though as my handelbar is curved and so with the straight mount the light is mounted at an angle which is not good. I'll probably get something like a Mounty space-bar to mount the light right in front of the stem.
    Last edited by kilou; 12-23-2013 at 01:56 AM.

  10. #130
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    Default Re: Philips LED bike light

    I recently purchased the AA version of the SafeRide 80. It was only $80 from Amazon.

    This was to replace my existing halogen lights, two 10W VistaLite VL400s powered by a 6V 12AH SLA. I've been happy with this setup for many years, but since the LED technology has gotten much better, I decided it was time to try out the SafeRide 80.

    I fabricated a mount to allow it to be mounted below my fairing, and added an external battery cable. I'm powering it with my 6V 12AH SLA, which should get me at least 10 hours of runtime. It's 45 min each way to work so at least I won't need to worry if I forget to charge it one day.

    I've used it for several trips to and from work. Coming home is always in the dark but the morning ride is usually at dawn. Here's some of the observations I had

    • Darkness while cornering - The light has a great beam pattern for the road in front, but only has limited lighting to the side. This is a particular problem when cornering and I need the light close in front of me. This pattern is particularly obvious in Low Power mode
    • Using my VistaLite 10W halogen VL400 along with the SafeRide 80 fills in the sides well. That combination is much better and still less power than the two VL400s I was running.
    • The moving stripes on the trees alongside the road were distracting at first but I got used to them
    • The battery indicator is all dark with my 6V SLA. I presume it will come on if the battery actually gets discharged, but I haven't got there yet!
    • The PWM frequency in LP mode is rather low. It gives a strobe effect especially if I'm looking around.
    • The color is good, but still a little cold. A warmer color would be better for preserving night vision
    • I measured the current draw at 1.1A in full power mode and 0.33A in low power mode at 6V.


    The one problem I found is that any loss of connection to the battery, no matter how short, leaves the light OFF. This isn't like halogens which are tolerant of intermittent connections. For an external battery connection, this could be a serious problem when you are riding in the dark.

    I tried to remedy the problem by putting super-capacitors inside the light. This does allow for a short disconnection, but if it makes it to low-power mode (in about 10 seconds) you can't get it out of low-power mode. The super-caps will keep it powered enough so that even after a day it still hasn't given up on low-power mode. This problem was noted earlier in this thread and apparently has been corrected with the latest rev, which I didn't seem to get here in the US.


    In general, I'm very happy with the light. It is a big improvement in terms of direct road lighting and battery life.

    Some pictures:

    Before

    With SafeRide 80

    Detail of mount - includes mount for NiteRider Mako I use in "flashy" mode.
    --tom

  11. #131
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    Default Re: Philips LED bike light

    With the external battery, my remedy for the problem that the light stays off with any momentary loss of power is to put alkaline AAs inside. I put a rectifier diode in series with the batteries so that they will only provide power when the voltage drops below 5.5v and the external battery won't attempt to charge them. I cut one of the battery contacts and soldered the rectifier there:

    I chose my newest AAs which claim to have a 10-year shelf life so I hope I don't have to open this again for a while.

    Another feature of the having the AAs inside is that it provides an emergency backup that's always available.

    Does anyone know if they fixed this problem with the new rev of the light (the round button one)? It seems that it could be a problem even with AAs if the contacts get compressed over long use.
    --tom

  12. #132
    Flashaholic* Steve K's Avatar
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    Default Re: Philips LED bike light

    Sorry, no idea if the issue has been fixed. Just wanted to say that this seems like a decent work-around solution. Alkalines do present a small risk of leakage and subsequent corrosion, though. You might consider installing a large capacitor in place of the alkalines. The only real issues would be:
    1. is the cap big enough to keep the light powered during the power disruption?
    2. how would you connect the capacitor? You might use dummy AA's as a way to make the connections.

  13. #133
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    Default Re: Philips LED bike light

    Steve K,

    I did try the super-cap route (see my note in #130). The problem with that is it gets stuck in "low-power" mode until you actually disconnect the capacitor.
    --tom

  14. #134
    Flashaholic* Steve K's Avatar
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    Default Re: Philips LED bike light

    oh... that's no fun. As handy as supercaps are, there's still a big difference between their capacity and that of AA alkalines.
    I did wonder if you could do something to buffer or filter the voltage sensing function of the Saferide light, but who knows what sort of effects that might have. Perhaps the best solution is to improve the battery connections so that the intermittent power interruptions are fixed? (and this is where you point out that we already discussed it 3 weeks ago. )

  15. #135
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    Default LED BikeLights discontinued

    And... it's gone! (What else would you have expected from that faceless corporate operation?)


    Dear business partner, dear customer,

    On March 31, 2014, Philips will permanently discontinue its line of LED BikeLights. This includes the sale of the products belonging to the Philips LED Saferide®, Philips LED Activeride® and Philips LED RearLight product lines. All products and accessories will be retired from the market.

    After that date, the products will be no longer for sale, and orders will no longer be accepted. We will continue to provide aftersales and support services for the products that have been sold in the last years, according to the terms and conditions that you may expect from a Philips solution.

    We strongly suggest that you liaise with your local sales partner, to discuss a last-buy option accommodating your business’ needs.

    Should you have additional questions, we encourage you to learn more about the details through your direct customer contact.

    We sincerely appreciate your support and regret any inconvenience this necessary action causes you.
    Last edited by Marcturus; 02-03-2014 at 06:28 PM.

  16. #136
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    Default Re: LED BikeLights discontinued

    Quote Originally Posted by Marcturus View Post
    And... it's gone! (What else would you have expected from that faceless corporate operation?)


    Dear business partner, dear customer,

    On March 31, 2014, Philips will permanently discontinue its line of LED BikeLights. This includes the sale of the products belonging to the Philips LED Saferide®, Philips LED Activeride® and Philips LED RearLight product lines. All products and accessories will be retired from the market.

    After that date, the products will be no longer for sale, and orders will no longer be accepted. We will continue to provide aftersales and support services for the products that have been sold in the last years, according to the terms and conditions that you may expect from a Philips solution.

    We strongly suggest that you liaise with your local sales partner, to discuss a last-buy option accommodating your business’ needs.

    Should you have additional questions, we encourage you to learn more about the details through your direct customer contact.

    We sincerely appreciate your support and regret any inconvenience this necessary action causes you.
    I hadn't seen this posting of you yet, but anyway, I didn't know about this and it is very surprising. With some small changes they could have wiped out B&M. Not doing this was a big missed opportunity...

    Fooking hell! This means my most favourite and the all time best taillamps so-far will no longer be available...

    I guess I need to stock up on some of those. For myself if not to sell

    As to a faceless corporation: I said it before, all big companies behave like this... As to responding to emails etc: I will list a few companies just FYI that never replied to any emails I sent:

    Trelock, Fenix, Exposure, Roxim. And also not from some Dutch manufacturers that I pointed out to that point light sources in taillamps are bad.

    Someone mailed me recently about Hebie not responding to some questions, it just happens everywhere.

    I guess B&M and others will like the news...

  17. #137
    Flashaholic* Steve K's Avatar
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    Default Re: LED BikeLights discontinued

    It is a bit surprising that Philips would sink that much time and money into these lights, just to turn around and drop them.

    On the other hand.. the bike light business is a fairly tiny market niche for them, isn't it? Isn't Philips more geared towards the large consumer market where annual sales of an item is many millions?

  18. #138
    Flashaholic* znomit's Avatar
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    Default Re: LED BikeLights discontinued

    I'm guessing one of the bean counters went for a ride with the B&M premium.

  19. #139
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    Default Re: LED BikeLights discontinued

    Quote Originally Posted by znomit View Post
    I'm guessing one of the bean counters went for a ride with the B&M premium.
    Yeah right.

    If they did that they would realise how pathetic the beam of the IQ premium reflector is. Complete garbage with hotspots and being too dark in the main area. Every time I ride with the Edelux II I think "wow it's dark" compared to the Saferide 60 which is just nice and much better. I also prefer the Edelux to the Edelux II... And the Luxos is better than the Edelux II (but not better than the Saferide 60).

    There is an issue with beamshots that's still not quite resolved (for how to deal with it on my site) in that a longer exposure makes some headlamps such as the EdeluxII look better than some other lamps, but I doubt anyone at Philips looks at those, the decisions are simply about money. They should have stuck it out a bit longer and should have made some different decisions.

    I think they made a mistake of not doing the combination of very cheap + very high end. They should have made a Saferide 80 based dynamo lamp not adhering to StVZO's power limits and go for a special approval + cheap headlamps (cheaper than the Saferide 40). The high end attracts attention even if not as much money and thus helps sales of low end by virtue of the brand image/name.

  20. #140
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    Default Re: LED BikeLights discontinued

    Quote Originally Posted by Steve K View Post
    It is a bit surprising that Philips would sink that much time and money into these lights, just to turn around and drop them.

    On the other hand.. the bike light business is a fairly tiny market niche for them, isn't it? Isn't Philips more geared towards the large consumer market where annual sales of an item is many millions?
    It's almost a company tradition. Yes, surprising because they had all the resources at their fingertips to make this a successful venture. Maybe they should have "encouraged" governments to adopt more demanding road codes tailored to their line of bicycle safety products. Isn't this what big businesses are experts in? On the other hand, look up their sporadic attempts at making Philips branded cell phones. People kinda sensed that they weren't in for the long run.
    I'm still going to grab a current-model SR-80. Now that there is not much hope for further refinement of this thing as sold, it's a keeper.

  21. #141
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    Default Re: LED BikeLights discontinued

    Quote Originally Posted by Marcturus View Post
    And... it's gone! (What else would you have expected from that faceless corporate operation?)


    Dear business partner, dear customer,

    On March 31, 2014, Philips will permanently discontinue its line of LED BikeLights. This includes the sale of the products belonging to the Philips LED Saferide®, Philips LED Activeride® and Philips LED RearLight product lines. All products and accessories will be retired from the market.

    After that date, the products will be no longer for sale, and orders will no longer be accepted. We will continue to provide aftersales and support services for the products that have been sold in the last years, according to the terms and conditions that you may expect from a Philips solution.

    We strongly suggest that you liaise with your local sales partner, to discuss a last-buy option accommodating your business’ needs.

    Should you have additional questions, we encourage you to learn more about the details through your direct customer contact.

    We sincerely appreciate your support and regret any inconvenience this necessary action causes you.
    I got an interesting response about this from a friend of mine. He told me that the OEM producer for Philips said to him that sales are good...

    Perhaps the reason for this change, which I think is strange as bicycle lighting fits into the range of products they make with LEDs, is not about money but simply a strategy change, or if it's about money then it's "we can make this much money with bicycle lighting, but we can make 10 times more with the same investment with medical equipment".

    It would be interesting to check what management changes have been made. These guys are, from what I have seen, almost always the problem, never a solution...

    Funny story: For some reason I got talking a little about this long ago, with a researcher at the univ. of Leiden whom I showed my plan for my physics degree, and he said "In Japan you don't need managers" ;-)

    [ implication: managers are only needed to stimulate people and Japanese have a far better work ethic, and I think it's right, but even worse, the managers often are the problem instead of the solution, esp. as many of them are sociopaths, which I knew long ago and this was confirmed in a horizon episode a few years ago. ]

  22. #142
    Flashaholic Marcturus's Avatar
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    Default Re: LED BikeLights discontinued

    I have no idea what the Japanese need, or don't need. But somehow I haven't bought a Cateye lamp in years.
    Whatever the reasons for the decision by Philips Bean-Counting Dept: Thanks, Frans...
    http://www.telegraaf.nl/dft/nieuws_d..._Houten__.html
    Last edited by Marcturus; 02-07-2014 at 06:26 AM.

  23. #143
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    Default Re: LED BikeLights discontinued

    Quote Originally Posted by Marcturus View Post
    I have no idea what the Japanese need, or don't need. But somehow I haven't bought a Cateye lamp in years.
    Whatever the reasons for the decision by Philips Bean-Counting Dept: Thanks, Frans...
    http://www.telegraaf.nl/dft/nieuws_d..._Houten__.html

    Japanese have a different work ethic and that's not just stay confined to simple labourers, it pervades a company. That's what he meant.

    Of course there are drawbacks to the social system there. But the work ethic is just so different, also in china for example. Think back to the laying of railway lines in the USA long ago. The Chinese workers worked harder, didn't get drunk etc. and thus were preferred. Same reason I think why some countries grow quickly when embracing international ways or business/technology, and others in similar position don't. In western culture with the rise of the stockmarket's influence, there's a definite rise of 'it's never enough'. Which means people who only look at money/their own interest are perceived to be important for such goals, and sociopaths can hide in plain sight there (though they never perform well).

    If he's responsible: As you'd looked it up I had a quick search and he started in 2011 in a different position. So no that long as the head. But another name is mentioned there: Pieter Nota, who's the head of the consumer division. Perhaps he's the culprit. I will try to find out more about this decision.

  24. #144

    Default Re: LED BikeLights discontinued

    Quote Originally Posted by swhs View Post
    Japanese have a different work ethic and that's not just stay confined to simple labourers, it pervades a company. That's what he meant.

    Of course there are drawbacks to the social system there. But the work ethic is just so different, also in china for example. Think back to the laying of railway lines in the USA long ago. The Chinese workers worked harder, didn't get drunk etc. and thus were preferred. Same reason I think why some countries grow quickly when embracing international ways or business/technology, and others in similar position don't. In western culture with the rise of the stockmarket's influence, there's a definite rise of 'it's never enough'. Which means people who only look at money/their own interest are perceived to be important for such goals, and sociopaths can hide in plain sight there (though they never perform well).

    If he's responsible: As you'd looked it up I had a quick search and he started in 2011 in a different position. So no that long as the head. But another name is mentioned there: Pieter Nota, who's the head of the consumer division. Perhaps he's the culprit. I will try to find out more about this decision.
    the Chinese were little more than slave labor. They had their opium dens for entertainment.

  25. #145
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    Default Re: LED BikeLights discontinued

    Quote Originally Posted by DavidAD View Post
    the Chinese were little more than slave labor. They had their opium dens for entertainment.
    Uhm, they weren't slaves and what they were paid doesn't matter much, what matters is their work ethic. And that was quite different from the European/American. If you don't know this difference in work ethic then you need to get out more.

    And that there were opium dens is also irrelevant, it's about how many people use that and were influenced by it.

    Lots of the European/american labourers drank a lot of alcohol, quite different from the Chinese.

  26. #146
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    Default Re: LED BikeLights discontinued

    Quote Originally Posted by Marcturus View Post
    And... it's gone! (What else would you have expected from that faceless corporate operation?)


    Dear business partner, dear customer,

    On March 31, 2014, Philips will permanently discontinue its line of LED BikeLights. This includes the sale of the products belonging to the Philips LED Saferide®, Philips LED Activeride® and Philips LED RearLight product lines. All products and accessories will be retired from the market.

    After that date, the products will be no longer for sale, and orders will no longer be accepted. We will continue to provide aftersales and support services for the products that have been sold in the last years, according to the terms and conditions that you may expect from a Philips solution.

    We strongly suggest that you liaise with your local sales partner, to discuss a last-buy option accommodating your business’ needs.

    Should you have additional questions, we encourage you to learn more about the details through your direct customer contact.

    We sincerely appreciate your support and regret any inconvenience this necessary action causes you.
    I've received no information about the reasons for Philips stopping with bicycle lights, not even confirmation that the message on mtb-news.de was true as that was the only source I've seen so far, but, some responses and one non-response in emails to someone at Philips in mid-late 2012 make me think they were possibly already thinking about stopping, middle to end of 2012, when they were doing budget cuts in Philips in all sections.

    Actually, they were strong indicators, but I didn't think they would do that, after all, with all the resources they have at their disposal, and the line up they have and money invested, it doesn't make sense to me to not give it a proper go and fix the issues in their lamps.

    Now don't think other companies don't make mistakes. I read some complaints about how the problems in the lamps should have been trivial to avoid by any company, but I will list some issues that I read and issues I saw:

    - Headlamps not always waterproof: I've not experienced it, but the Edelux for example also wasn't waterproof in early versions. The lens being stuck on at the front with the Saferides does mean water can come in there if the glue hasn't properly sealed it... For this case a lens within the housing, so slightly recessed, is better. This can be done easily with a top/bottom half housing... Also with regard to being waterproof, look at the Luxos U, which has a problem of not being able to withstand even a little bit of dampness on the connector for the switch. People who say any of the issues in Philips lamps could have been easily fixed with proper testing, yes, I agree, but this is true for other lamps as well such as the Luxos U.

    - Not user serviceable: Almost all headlamps these days cannot be opened easily for repairs. Again, the top/bottom half way would make this possible.

    - Mount point not 10mm wide: Lots of companies do that these days. I don't like it, mounts are not interchangeable...

    - Early mounting bracket could break. Didn't happen to me, depends on riding enough on roads where the lamp will vibrate such that it breaks where it was pressed thinner for the bolt. Might have seemed to be a good idea but it wasn't. Then again, I've heard the same issue about the H-one S from one person who emailed his experiences and the H-one S' bracket was defective 3 times (so he go t a replacement bracket 2 times but all broke). If looking at it, the stamping causes strength difference which can cause a break from vibrations.

    - Ball head mount: I commented about this without testing, I didn't think it would work, and it didn't. I don't know how this got through testing.

    - Taillamp (with batteries): Water damage: This is again something I would do differently. The design is too complicated, but also, a top/bottom type design or something which at the top is not a line that if not perfectly sealed, will let water go in, is simply better.

    - Complexity: The designs are undoubtedly more expensive to manufacture than lower end headlamps because of their complexity. The method of keeping the electronics fixed without vibration in the Pedelec/Saferide 60 is very complex, lots of parts, spring, small bolts. Why not simply bolting the PCB and use bottom-top half housing?

    The beam shape of the Philips lamps are so far unequaled in how useful and smooth they are, which is different from how well they look on beam shots. This is the problem of lamps such as the Supernova E3 from 2010 which looked a lot better than any of the others, and in reality it's not, the same happens with the Edelux II and thus Cyo premium, and the cause is that spreading out light and especially making it wide fairly close, looks good on beam shots (a large part of the screen is lit up, larger than illuminating the same area on the road which is a bit further away, this is the issue of perspective over-accentuation but there are other reasons too) but it's not what you see in reality because in reality you look at a certain spot on the road, not at the entire picture as you see on the computer screen. In reality I find the Edelux II to be very dark, and the Saferide 60 much better. The only good point of the Edelux II is the width for curves but I never felt it was a big advantage.

    I sent my Edelux II to friend btw., will look forward to his views. His views are often different than mine (e.g. he liked the original H-one S a lot for riding in the city where the squarish blob of light before the main beam got noticed by motorists...), but he's just as critical so will look forward to how he views the hotspots and darkness of the beam in the other places.

    On the squarish blob of light of the original H-one S and artefacts in general: This is another issue that is hard to properly show in beam shots if aiming the lamps as far as possible, as I do. The eye then still sees the artefacts, the camera not so much.

    I tried HDR btw, and it didn't work, didn't give results that showed me more how I experience lamps especially in the darker areas. I tried some gamma editing of beam shots with a computer program I made specifically for changing the darkness-brightness also depending on brightness of an area and they gave a fairly good improvement but this is still something in progress.

    To do it properly, to give a good impression of artefacts, I think the only way at the moment is to make beamshots with the lamps aimed at various distances. I noticed the artifacts jump out far more on beam shots where the lamps are aimed at 25-30 m which is what many people do when riding and also when making beam shots.

    But that's not optimal use of strong headlamps, at least for me, I always aim as far as possible, possibly because I like to ride fast

    So possibly it would be a good idea to make beam shots aimed at 25,35,45m (and more if the lamp works well that way, e.g. LBL 70m), but doing all that would make beam shot sessions even more work.

    But I'm not sure whether I will get around to this, as all this investigative stuff costs loads of time and no results for sales. Instead, I have the numbers to prove that proper reviews actually reduce sales... This is because people want to be affirmed in their views, not shown that something else they don't care about it better. A salesmen sells more by only pointing out good points of all devices then letting the customer make up his mind, not by pointing out bad points...

    So coincidentally, as Philips, I've been considering how to proceed...

    Wouter

  27. #147
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    Default Re: Philips LED bike light

    now:
    blowout at rosebikes. Don't bother if you think you'll soon see them for under UKP 33.80 including s&h.

  28. #148

    Default Re: Philips LED bike light

    This is truly disappointing news, I figured that the introduction of the Saferide etc. meant that finally the concept of proper shaped-beam LED bike lights would go more mainstream over the usual (in the US) flashlight in a different housing type lights. Sigh.

    Well, I've still got B&M on my bike so at least I'm set...

  29. #149
    Flashaholic Marcturus's Avatar
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    Default Re: Philips LED bike light

    With more and more automotive beam functions converging into single-digit Watt territory due to LED technology and CO2 rating potential, I still see potential for optical engineering spillover into a growing number of bicycle lamps.

    But for Philips, at least in the meantime, it's cheaper to produce brand loyalty by selling real toys, http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00KOB81QA/

  30. #150

    Default Re: Philips LED bike light

    37,48 € för the black and 32,48 € for the White
    http://www.rosebikes.com/article/phi...ght/aid:642257


    /Håkan
    SWEDEN

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