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Thread: Philips LED bike light

  1. #181
    Flashaholic* Steve K's Avatar
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    Default Re: Philips LED bike light

    Quote Originally Posted by gipsyman View Post
    .....

    But now we have a USA automotive lighting engineer designing a cut-off beam light similar in looks to the Supernova M99 series.

    See this link: http://forums.mtbr.com/lights-night-...n-1055278.html
    Cool! I wasn't aware of that thread (haven't checked MTBR for a while). Nice to see a more sophisticated optical design from a small manufacturer/hobbyist. It will be interesting to see if the project manages to produce a small run of production parts. Seems like there are a lot of tooling expenses and other production headaches that would need to be addressed.

  2. #182

    Default Re: Philips LED bike light

    Quote Originally Posted by Steve K View Post
    Cool! I wasn't aware of that thread (haven't checked MTBR for a while). Nice to see a more sophisticated optical design from a small manufacturer/hobbyist. It will be interesting to see if the project manages to produce a small run of production parts. Seems like there are a lot of tooling expenses and other production headaches that would need to be addressed.

    It really is a huge undertaking to design and produce a sophisticated product like Outbound Lighting is proposing. The engineer who is running the project works on automotive lights so he has an upper hand on finding parts and suppliers though. He also has the experience to know what designs have already worked well. I hope he succeeds in his endeavor. I was ready to buy a Lupine SL-A but am going to wait now to see his light.

    With E-bikes on the horizon as a big cash cow for manufacturers I think cut-off beam lights will finally get a toe hold here in the USA.

  3. #183
    Flashaholic Marcturus's Avatar
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    Default Outbound Lighting

    Quote Originally Posted by gipsyman View Post
    It really is a huge undertaking to design and produce a sophisticated product like Outbound Lighting is proposing. The engineer who is running the project works on automotive lights so he has an upper hand on finding parts and suppliers though. He also has the experience to know what designs have already worked well. I hope he succeeds in his endeavor. I was ready to buy a Lupine SL-A but am going to wait now to see his light.
    Good decision, at least if you aren't really in a hurry to get a new lamp. Every time Lupine or Supernova wish to modify an important optical engineering detail, they need to consult externally and wonder about keeping or renewing their costly K# certificate. So it's very nice to see a U.S. kickstarter project in which the designers themselves actually seem to know what they are talking about in optical engineering. To me, the two-head concept and a number of details seem debatable, and I'd like to see a bit more emphasis put on recognizing and solving bicycle-specific needs that "some other" kickstarter endeavors have TRIED to address. But the products seem good enough already. The Outbound Lighting guys have proven they aren't deluded, but can actually carry a friendly and productive conversation with their funders, clients and industry contacts, so I'm positive for the project's future even after their initial, successfully-funded production run.
    Last edited by Marcturus; 12-26-2017 at 12:16 PM.

  4. #184

    Default Re: Philips LED bike light

    Quote Originally Posted by abvgdee View Post
    So where do SR80's "peels" blinding artefacts come from? (I was suprized how huge and bright they really are)

    Probably they are exclusively fabricated by one LED shining onto the other's "designated" reflector part.

    How to test it: Method 1: The black wall could be used. Method 2: A laser pointer (low power for safety) can be used to shine from where the artefact appear - to figure out from which LED it comes from, "this", or "the other".

    (Someone wrote to me these two ideas few weeks ago. I partially copy-pasted the wording here. Shame on me not getting it right back then)

    Method 3: One can inspect the reflection of an LED when lamp is off (yellow), and its surrounding PCB area (white) in (each) reflector stripe. The PCB area stops with a reflector on one side of the LED, and continues white on the other. This assymetry can be seen in the mirror stripe (each), and thus one can deduce, which LED ("this", or "the other") you see at a particular angle. The reflection of the LED and PCB area is distorted and unclear, and it takes some time, but still it's possible to say with certainty which LED it is.

    Briefly, I can confirm the above assumption of the cause of the artefacts.

    The number of artefact peels equals to the number of reflector stripes (not surprisingly):





    (here the right LED, which on first photo is on left, shines on left reflector half, which on photo is on right, and creates artefacts on the left side of the beamshot)

    I'd say the black wall should not be full-height, it should be more like a fence. Its upper shape should be special, to only prevent "the other" LED from reaching "this" half's stripes. The artifacts will disappear, but I think there will be some change in the beam pattern (like less bright at the sides).

    Bottomline: 1 (shining) LED per reflector please.

    ----------

    Why the SR80 has a dark stripe "artefact" in the near field? The reflector only creates its light carpet about 2m away. The near field (before the carpet) is only created by direct (not reflected) light from LEDs. So there are 2 (obvious) reasons for that dark stripe: (1) the bigger the angle from the LED die normal - the less luminous intensity, and (2) the farther the distance to a road area - the smaller its brightness (luminance).

    Why the housing is horizontally stretched? (previously I wished it to be vertically big - for a sharper cutoff). There are (above) the lumen reason, and styling, but also - to make near field wider. Almost right at the wheel - *and* pretty wide sideways.

    (these are some of my mis-understandings I decided to share for everyone)

    ----------

    Why people call the SR80's windshield a lens? Looking thru mine at LEDs and reflector, I'd say it's perfectly flat.

    ----------

    (blabbering below, but hopefully interesting..)

    I searched for "reflector design", and found there are many books on this. It's amazing how such a primitive law as geometrical-optics mirror reflection can lead to really involved math and algorithms. To me it looks like there's no way a hobbyist can design a good-cutoff LED reflector, even if using some available (open source) ray-tracing engines (because it's an *inverse* problem), let alone from scratch.

    As of now, a search engine's top reflector-CAD company still uses only (!) point-like light sources (with a configurable angular distribution of course) in their commercial system. This brings some doubts in accuracy of reflector designs. Looking at flat (along one direction) stripes of SR80's reflector, may be it was really a rather crude design process (I doubt they solved inverse problem)..
    Photobucket broke your links, so a quick little fix to bring the images back

  5. #185
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    Default Re: Philips LED bike light

    Ever since I heard hat Spanninga had picked up the bike light technology from Philips, I wanted to see if they could make it even better.

    I've been riding with my Philips SafeRide 80 modified to use an external SLA battery for several years now. It's the best light I've come across-- biright, good beam pattern, and has the horizon-cutoff required by StVZO. With the external battery, I get 5 hours of run time.

    I ordered a few of the Axendo 60 lights from bike shop in The Netherlands, since they are not available anywhere in the U.S. I have tried out the Axendo 60 for a few nights now, and it doesn't qualify as a replacement for the SafeRide 80 for me. It's a great light, but the SafeRide 80 is still my choice.

    The Axendo 60 is clearly using similar optics from the SafeRide 80. The beam pattern and especially the "peels" pattern on the sides is unmistakable.

    Here's some of the features and failures of the Axendo 80:
    Pros:

    • bright beam pattern where it is needed
    • Li-Ion USB-rechargeable internal battery - runs 5 hours on max power (60 lux)
    • 2-second press to turn it on
    • defaults to max power (60 lux)
    • three power modes: 60, 30, 10 lux
    • charges in 4 hours (max)
    • compact size
    • StVZO-compliant horizon cutoff

    Cons:

    • Beam pattern is narrow and not even - the falloff of light from the main beam to the light directly in front of the bicycle is sharp



    For comparison, the SafeRide 80...
    Pros:

    • bright, wide and even beam pattern
    • two power modes: 80 and 20 lux
    • StVZO-compliant horizon cutoff

    Cons:

    • 2 hours max with the standard 4 AAA NiMH batteries
    • 1 press to turn it on - can turn on accidentally if you throw it in your bag
    • requires modification to use an external battery for more than 2 hour run time
    • larger size


    Here's some pictures of the beam patterns

    http://i347.photobucket.com/albums/p...pswrs4pxwq.jpg
    Philips SafeRide 80


    http://i347.photobucket.com/albums/p...psehskjj4o.jpg
    Spanninga Axendo 60

    And some comparison pictures:
    http://i347.photobucket.com/albums/p...psemy4zsy8.jpg
    http://i347.photobucket.com/albums/p...psyudnavpf.jpg
    http://i347.photobucket.com/albums/p...psvbuwk2cu.jpg


    Spanninga's web site: http://www.spanninga.com/products/he...axendo-60-usb/
    Last edited by jfcl; 04-04-2018 at 06:29 AM. Reason: direct links to photobucket

  6. #186

    Default Re: Philips LED bike light

    Greetings CandlePower friends - long-time-no..umm - well anyway, good to be back and to read someone's practical experience with the Axendo. It appears that Spanninga is producing the lights in relatively limited quantities and targeting the e-bike market. I assume they are trying to leverage their development costs while they can! Hollandbikeshop still seems to be the main prospective source for those people outside Europe. Probably best to order along with a bunch of other stuff if you can justify it. The dynamo lights seem to be in stock at the moment. I've been running the XE 60 (e-bike light) connected to a 2Px2S Lithium 7.2v battery (4 x 18650s) on a few short night rides and it seems quite comparable with the Saferide. I haven't noticed the artefacts mentioned above although I haven't been looking for them. The main value of the Saferide (and now the Axendo) for me is the capacity to aim that bright spot just below the sight-line of oncoming drivers for optimal illumination of the roadway. I'm less concerned about what happens up close as I don't ride particularly fast and I find there's plenty of time for me to see what I need to see on the road's surface.
    On another encouraging note, I see that Cateye are now producing StVZO standard battery lights and recently I bought from fleabay a tiny $3 StVZO usb-charged light from China with a truly astonishing beam. So I reckon things are looking up for commuters! Incidentally I am now retired from wage slavery so more time for messing around with LEDs!

  7. #187
    Flashaholic* Steve K's Avatar
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    Default Re: Philips LED bike light

    Hey Sam, good to hear from you again! Congrats on your status as a retired fellow too. I'm also somewhat recently retired, which has been an interesting change. Part of what I miss is the bike commute... I'm almost tempted to just ride to work and ride home again. Before I left work, I did tease some friends by saying that I would ride to work, wave to people going into the building and laugh, and then ride home. Haven't tried it yet, though.

    As you mention, the new free time has been spent partially on tinkering with lights. I've rebuilt my dynamo taillight, which was a sad mess of sequential mods over the years. With the consolidation of all of the changes, I'm now able to allow people to see it without hiding my face! The headlight is in the process of evaluating new LEDs and optics.

    Long term plans include working on a buck converter for the headlight so that only one LED will be driven by the dynamo. I've got a dead B&M Eyc to serve as the host for this sort of Frankenstein creation. Should be fun.

  8. #188
    Flashaholic angerdan's Avatar
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    Lightbulb Re: Philips LED bike light

    Quote Originally Posted by samsavvas View Post
    On another encouraging note, I see that Cateye are now producing StVZO standard battery lights and recently I bought from fleabay a tiny $3 StVZO usb-charged light from China with a truly astonishing beam. So I reckon things are looking up for commuters! Incidentally I am now retired from wage slavery so more time for messing around with LEDs!
    Cateye was the first manufacturer offering an StVZO LED headlight. That was back in 2003, so 15 years ago. The Cateye HL-EL300G was powered with 4x AA.
    enhydralutris.de/Fahrrad/Beleuchtung/node250.html
    fa-technik.adfc.de/Komponenten/Scheinwerfer/LED/

    China-lights aren't StVZO, but some better constructed ones has a similar cut-off beam shape.
    Currently the Supernova M99 Pro series are state of the art bicylce lighting (but with external power source like the Outbound Lighting Focal Series).
    supernova-lights.com/en/products/e-bike-lights-45-kmh/m99-pro/

  9. #189

    Default Re: Philips LED bike light

    Quote Originally Posted by angerdan View Post
    Cateye was the first manufacturer offering an StVZO LED headlight. That was back in 2003, so 15 years ago. The Cateye HL-EL300G was powered with 4x AA....China-lights aren't StVZO, but some better constructed ones has a similar cut-off beam shape....
    You are correct - I'd forgotten that old light! I have one in the shed somewhere. What I've noticed with the latest Cateye battery lights is their reflectors now appear to resemble much more closely the one that BUMM and Schmidt both use.

    And yes - I doubt very much the cheap Chinese light I was referring to is actually rated by StVZO. I was using the term incorrectly as a general descriptor for lights with off-centre LED placement and supposedly asymmetrical beam shaping. But nevertheless it has a great 'cut-off' beam for such a tiny USB light! I bought a bunch of them just to evaluate and the smallest and cheapest was the best!

    Sam.

  10. #190

    Default Re: Philips LED bike light

    Over the past few months (post retirement) I've been trying to maintain my bike riding-habits now I no longer commute each day. Unfortunately for me I've always ridden out of necessity rather than 'sporting enthusiasm' so there has been something of a 'lay-off'. Something about being able to sleep-in! So of course I just had to get a 'new bike' as motivation ;-)
    Somehow I found myself building up a titanium touring frame with a carbon fork - something entirely new to me. All of the build has come out of the parts box except for the wheels (the first set I haven't built myself). Parts included a brand-new Phillips Saferide 60 headlight and matching Lumiring tail light, both of which I'd forgotten I had! I must have bought them as spares some years ago - probably when on sale at Bike24.
    Anyway, I installed them yesterday afternoon, running off a Shutter Precision hub dynamo, waited until dark and then took the bike for a test ride. Wow, wow, wow - I had forgotten what amazing lights these are! The Saferide fires up at walking pace and gives a great spread of graduated light - all concentrated onto the road's surface. And the Lumiring tail light is so bright - a real 'ring of fire' to quote J Cash.
    I've read somewhere that technically the new Spanninga's are straight copies of the Phillips. I've tried the Axendo 60 - the Saferide equivalent - and it's great. Haven't tried the Spanninga equivalent of the Lumiring yet (called I think the Elips) but if it emulates or improves on the Philips light I'd be very impressed. I wish Spanninga had better world-wide distribution as the twin-LED reflector and the 'lumiring' designs both have a lot going for them. I'm also very impressed with the little SP hub. I can't speak for its longevity but it certainly does the job in powering LED lights!

  11. #191

    Default Re: Philips LED bike light

    Just to reference things mentioned above here's the tiny 'cut off' beam, USB-charging light I mentioned in post #189. Just a bit bigger than a BIC lighter.

    Sam

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