Why no small diesel trucks?

bigcozy

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Back in the 80's there were several small trucks that had diesels. Toyota, Isuzu, Chevy (was really Isuzu), Volkswagen, even Mazda had a Canadian spec truck that had a Perkins in it. When I would go overseas, I would see these small trucks that were four door, 4X4, and had diesels - some turbocharged. The four door trucks have hit big here in the US, but light trucks still don't have the engines. One of my problems with the four door Toyotas and Nissans, is that you have to get a fairly large six cylinder. Often these don't get much (or any) better gas mileage than full size trucks.

Any chance diesels will come back in small trucks? I would love a Toyota 4X4, four door, turbo diesel. Probably be $40K though.
 

Silviron

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I had one of those little Isuzus. It was great.

I'd buy another if they still made them. I got rid of mine when the tranny went out and the best deal I could get on a replacement was $3500 for a used one or $7,000 for a new factory unit (I only paid about $7,500 for the entire vehicle new three years earlier.) Unfortunately, It happened about 800 miles after my warranty expired.

I could have done it myself cheaper, but I just didn't have a place where I could work on it at that time.

One of my partners bought one at the same time I did, his went over 400,000 miles before he traded it (still running strong) for a diesel Trooper.

The only thing I didn't like about it is that a lot of places I went back in those days, finding a station that had diesel was often difficult, so I had to really plan ahead or haul jerry cans.
 

Eugene

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No kidding, I would love to have a small one in my S-10. I'm finging the same thing, once you add AC, extended cab, Auto trans a small truck gets the same milage as a big truck. My old 88 got 27MPG.
 

bigcozy

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Looks like there would be a market for a small truck that would go 200,000 miles without a major build and get 40 + MPG.
 

Eugene

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200,000 miles, I get that from gas engines. If I have a Diesel I would expect 400-500k without work.
 

DieselDave

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Those old Isuzu's were and some still are a heck of a little truck. I really don't understand why there aren't more diesel vehicles.

Here's a quiz...Which 2003 or 2004 passenger cars sold new in the U.S. can be purchased with a diesel?

Let me start.

VW: Jetta, Golf, Passat and New Beetle.
 

Silviron

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[ QUOTE ]
DieselDave said:
.....Here's a quiz...Which 2003 or 2004 passenger cars sold new in the U.S. can be purchased with a diesel?
....


[/ QUOTE ]

Doesn't Volvo sell a Turbo Diesel here?
 

Brock

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As far as I know thats it Dave. I can't wait to actually see the Passat's, I don't think they are scheduled until late Q3 though.
 

MacGyver

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I too sincerely believe a small diesel truck would sell here again now, alas, mfg's sooo slow to respond here...
Jeep Liberty (yah, SUV not p/u) will be available with a diesel 2004 or 05. Crosslander may be available in several styles SUV & p/u, if it ever gets here.
Dodge has the 6BT Cummins in the 3/4 & 1 ton, a 4BT would be perfect in the Dakota & Durango /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon23.gif

Passat only got the TDI diesel in 96-97, no diesel option in Canada or US 98-03, *may* for 2004 but I'd wait & see...don't hold your breath /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif
Had 1.9L IDI (not direct injection) in Canada only before that.
Volvo hasn't sold a diesel in NA since late 80's, Mercedes sold diesels till 97 or 98, BMW I can't remember but been a while.
Escort, Tempo, and Lincoln had limited run diesel options in mid 80's, Ford Ranger had diesel then turbo diesel option, even the Chevette had a diesel option /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ooo.gif

Of course, you can always build your own like a friend of mine did, put a Mazda diesel in an S-10, worked excellent!
Too bad we can't get this truck here...
Or if you like VW's and you're feeling a little weirder, perhaps something like this /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

Of course, if you'd prefer a larger diesel car, build one like this!! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif
 

Silviron

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Could have sworn I saw either a TV commercial or magazine ad a few months ago for a Volvo Diesel. Maybe it was just an blurb in Popular Mechanics instead; Whatever, it was neat, if beyond my means even if they did sell 'em here.

Been thinking about putting a VW diesel engine in my Samurai, (which I decided to keep for sentimental reasons) They fit and you can buy some of the conversion parts, but I don't think my mechanic skills up to that much custom work.

I looked at the Crosslander when I was thinking about replacing the Samurai, I kind of liked the looks, and even the specs... But something about a Romanian designed, Brazillian built vehicle just doesn't inspire my confidence
 

NightStorm

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Between a rock & a hard place.
The Tempo used the Mazda 626 diesel and the Ranger used the B-2000 motor. Can't say that I remember seeing an Escort with an "oil burner". Anyway, we (meaning Mazda) had some head gasket problems with the 626 diesel (oil leaks), but never any internal problems with the B-2000. The engines would literally outlast the chassis. I'm sure that quite a few of these engines migrated into boats when the chassis died. Down-sizing a Perkins definitely produced over-kill in the reliability department. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif

Dan

P.S. I liked the injection advance control that the B-2000 had, one could seriously smoke out a tailgater. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
 

2dogs

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Most of the people (probably) who want a small diesel truck wouldn't stand for the slow acceleration these vehicles are saddled with. This is because "small truck" equals small price in most people's mind. Small price means a small simple diesel engine, not state of the art. It would have to have a turbo to meet emissions but it will still be too slow for the American right foot.

In addition the "environmentalist" movement hates the diesel, especially in pick ups and big rigs. It dosen't matter that technology improves with diesel engines at the same rate as gasoline engines. Diesels are still hated.

A third problem is the poor (poorest) quality diesel fuel available in the USA. The military in Afghanastan has reported they have had to de tune some of their diesel vehicles because of the higher quality fuel available locally. I buy "premium" diesel for my Suburban, 2 Dodge trucks, and Kubota tractor. It isn't as good as the fuel available at the corner gas station in Afghanastan. Until we see a much better fuel at the pumps the big diesel engine manufacturers can't be expected to make some needed improvements.

I'm not a small truck driver but I hope you get your wish granted by some manufacturer and they build one for you. The diesel engine is very efficient and durable and should last over 200,000 miles. Good luck.
 

MacGyver

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The VW Samarai conversion seems like a good idea from what I've read. Torque for rock crawling etc. and excellent mileage.
The only thing that bothered me about the Crosslander is the transfer case...made by Crosslander. The rest of the driveline components are known names. Body could fall apart in 18 months or never, I have no idea. 3yr BtB warranty, get what u pay for maybe?
I had a Tempo diesel for a while & a friend had an Escort diesel, same engine. Ran great, don't try to pass in a hurry or you'd get killed...my current Jetta woulda run circles around it...but I remember filling up with 1260km on the tank, not bad for 1985 technology /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/buttrock.gif

The last of the diesel Ranger run had turbo'd OHC motors but apparently weren't as reliable...what motor was that?

Yes the B-2000 motors were fairly stout, my friend that did the conversion got his motor out of a retired Maxda then ran it in the S-10 till that rusted down to the framerails after a bazillion miles. Motor is awaiting possibly another truck!
Only issue I've ever seen with them is cam wear if subjected to excessive periods of idling...and parts are becoming harder to source now of course, they'll be 20yrs old in the not too distant future /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon15.gif
 

Eugene

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2dogs, I have owned two small trucks, both with 4 cyl gas engines, I'm willing to bet a small diesel won't accelerate any slower than the little 4 bangers in my S-10's, you can't get any slower. But 200k, is a gas engine life time, a diesel should last twice that.
 

ikendu

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DieselDave said: ...2003 or 2004...VW: Jetta, Golf, Passat and New Beetle.

Yup. According to Fred's TDI forum the Passat, Mercedes and Jeep Liberty will all be added in 2004.

There was a rumor of a BMW too.
 

KC2IXE

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[ QUOTE ]
Eugene said:
...snip... But 200k, is a gas engine life time, a diesel should last twice that.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't know about that - My Mazda B2300 pickup (read Ford Ranger 2.3l 4 banger) has 326k miles on it, and has NO engine work except timing belts (maintenance item) done on it. Burns NO oil

The guy I got the truck from (good friend) had 2 Chevettes - he ran both of them for over 400k miles before retiring them, with NO engine work. The worst he's had was a Nissan Pickup - that engine started to go after 250k miles

Gas engines can go a LONG time, if maintained

That said, I'd love to have a mid sized diesel in my pickup, with a big radiator. I want to be able to idle my truck for 5-6 hours while doing disaster work. I've actually thought of getting an ambulance chassis for just this reason /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
 

NewsFlash

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I think part of the reason for not many diesels in the US is how GM did with diesels back in the 80's. They brought diesels to market before they were perfected.

I worked at a grocery store as a teenager. My boss bought a Cadillac with a diesel engine. He tended to have a funny look on his face after going to town in it. He said that thing was gonna get him killed. He would swerve out to pass another car and then he'd have nothing (power). He (his family) also were building storage buildings and he took up two spaces worth and converted that diesel to gas himself! Talk about a shade-tree mechanic! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

A lot of people, I believe, just don't trust diesels after such fiascos! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/jpshakehead.gif
 

DieselDave

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It's interesting that every diesel, car and truck that's produced in the U.S. is a hot seller, not just average but hot. The reason we aren't seeing a Duramax Diesel Suburban, Diesel Hummer H2 or Diesel van is they can't keep up with current demand for the engine and Allison trans. They are building a new plant to increase production but shouldn't bells be going off in GM's/Ford's and Chrysler's head. Diesels sell and sell well. I am mentally two iterations past GM at the moment. I not only want a diesel Suburban, I want it to be a hybrid. I also want Darell to pay for half of this mythical $60-$70k vehicle because he got me interested in electric vehicle technology.
 

ikendu

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A diesel/electric hybrid like... this?

The US Army's hybrid diesel-electric "stealth" Humvee moves silently, uses much less fuel than its conventional diesel predecessor and accelerates like a sports car.
The vehicle has four 100 hp UQM Technologies permanent magnet motors to provide power to each wheel and a fifth as a generator on the diesel powerplant. It has twice the acceleration and climbing capability of a conventionally powered Hummer. And, like a tank, it can turn around in place by having one or more wheels turn in different directions.
 

MacGyver

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[ QUOTE ]
NewsFlash said:
I think part of the reason for not many diesels in the US is how GM did with diesels back in the 80's. They brought diesels to market before they were perfected.

[/ QUOTE ]

A good portion of the actual problem was they sold a very light duty diesel (especially the first edition before the heads were strengthened) to people that knew nothing of them. Warm it up, cool it down, service the freakin' thing...and they would last. I know of more than one still running.
'Joe Consumer' was accustomed to a good 'ol Delta 88 with 350, get it and start, soon as it caught put the pedal to the floor & go. Never serviced it. Lasted a few yrs before it died and he was happy. Decided to get one of these newfangled deezuls for the higher mileage. Treated it the same, and it blew up. Well golly gee, that means all deezuls forever = junk /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif
Computers etc continue to get better & faster & more efficient, I don't understand why people (and I know lots that do too /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif ) think of 20yr old diesel tech as the current state of affairs.
Anyway, things have changed, GM finally followed the others in using someone else's proven engine instead of trying to reinvent the wheel. Good! So bring on a multitude of vehicles with modern updated design diesel engines. I'll take a small truck, a minivan for the (future) wife & kids, a decent sized SUV for our family getaways, hmm better get a diesel push mower to compliment the list and...anyone know where to find a diesel weed wacker? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thinking.gif

DD I've wondered the same thing...car companies offer a diesel, it sells great, but they don't get the hint to offer more...? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon23.gif
 
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