Mag Dragon Jr.: ~150,000Lux compact super thrower: Lighthouse beam shot vs. 35W HID

ma_sha1

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Mag Dragon Jr. Compact super thrower: Now 231,500 lux @ 1 meter.

In human society, it takes two adults to make a Jr.
In flashlight world, some times the same thing will happen, where two adult flashlights gave their lives to the birth of a Jr. :crackup:

The Jr., in functionality (Not so much the look) is very similar to the MagDragon (https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/280670), thus, The name: MagDragon Jr.

Here are the parents:

Left, is this flashlight: https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/264722, it has achieved ~100K lux @ 1meter, but has some flaws that I am getting tired off, the cheap switch kept messing up & after the third time trying to fix it, I have decided to give up.
Right, The Ledean mag 1C with Surplus shed 52mm aspheric, although it's 18650 direct drive Cree P4, it held it's ground against Q5 aspheric fairly well in the LuxLuther Mag Aspherical shoot out back in 08.: https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/202045
It does around 60K lux @ 1 meter, not bad for 2008, however time has changed & Clearly, the time has come for it to pass the torch on to the next generation.

dscf7230.jpg


The operations are very similar to the MagDragon build.
First, the head of the Ledean Mag 1C was cut in two halves by my trusty-old table saw:
dscf7237.jpg


dscf7238s.jpg


The bottom half of the Mag C head was then grind down to match the opening of the DX shower head/66mm lens.
The DX head was bored to remove the thread.

This is not hard to do, just take some time & patience, try not to let the grinding wheel touch where you don't want it to.

The grinding generate lots & lots of heat, so every 15 seconds or so, it need to chill out in a bowl of water:
dscf7250b.jpg


dscf7246.jpg


When it's done, the Mag C Neck fit into the Dx head nicely. Again, plenty of JB weld, some weights to hold the two pieces
tight for a few hours op top of the Kitchen Counter. (I am not Cooking, but refused to get out of the kitchen :laughing:)
dscf7249.jpg


dscf7262d.jpg


While the JB weld taking its time to cure, I turned my attention to the Mag 1C body.
I grind the edge of the Mag C sink & pushed it inside (Need to do that for focus with this lens).
Added a piece of copper around the Alu. heatsink post, changed the led out to XRE R2 from Cutter.

Its still Direct Drive. I didn't do tail cap spring resistance mod, you'll see why in a minute.
dscf7259.jpg


Wola, the MagDragon Jr is born! Isn't she beautiful? :devil:
dscf7301.jpg


Side by side with the original MagDragon:
dscf7285.jpg


dscf7280q.jpg


I think there may be too many picture in one post,
Beam shots & Lux readings to come in post #2 below:
.
.
 
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ma_sha1

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Re: The Birth of mag Dragon Jr.: a ~150,000Lux compact super thrower

Beam shots & Lux readings:

MagDragon on Top
MagDragon Jr. at bottom:
dscf7296p.jpg


Super duper low exposure so that one can tell the difference: 1/1250 of a second, ISO 80 F2.6.
This is the lowest exposure that my camera will go down to. (Canon Powershot AS530)
Given that the MagDragon (SST-50 6Amp/75mm lens) already measured at ~125K lux,
before I get to the lux meter, I already can tell that the Jr. will be a smash hit. :p
img5109x.jpg


img5107.jpg


img5108r.jpg


The Lux Readings:

MagDragon Jr. runs on 1x18650. I have a bunch of various 18650 laying around in different state in regarding to their charge. Instead of charge to Max, I decided to pick 4 that's a bit apart & do a AMP vs. Lux test, to get an idea on what might be the Optimized Amp for this flashlight to get highest possible lux.

I set-up a 10 meter lux reading system, I had to use a Monocular as I can't read the lux meter numbers that far out.

The Entire experiment is written down on to the dinner plate:
dscf7271.jpg



Let me explain a bit what I have done:

First, each batteries volts are measured before use:
1. Ultra fire 18650 3.88V
2. Ultra fire 18650 3.98V
3. AW IMR 18650 3.99V
4. Trust Fire 18650 4.14V

Second, each battery are put into the flashlight & measured AMP with tail spring:
1. Ultra fire 18650 3.88V: 1.22 Amp
2. Ultra fire 18650 3.98V: 1.55 Amp
3. AW IMR 18650 3.99V: 1.89 AMP
4. Trust Fire 18650 4.14V: 2.00 AMP

Third, each set-up are taken to 10Meter Lux measurement & convert to lux @ 1 meter
1. Ultra fire 18650 3.88V: 1.22 Amp, Lux @ 1 meter: 113,000
2. Ultra fire 18650 3.98V: 1.55 Amp , Lux @ 1 meter: 125,000
3. AW IMR 18650 3.99V: 1.89 AMP, Lux @ 1 meter: 135,000
4. Trust Fire 18650 4.14V: 2.00 AMP, Lux @ 1 meter: 134,000

Then, Re-test the first battery & see if the lux has reduced due to heat sink heat up

after 4 reading round.

5.
(Repeat of 1.) Ultra fire 18650 3.88V: 1.22 Amp, Lux @ 1 meter: 112,000
The lux has not dropped, that means I can trust the lux numbers of the test of 2,3,4 & not to worry
that are lower than if I had made them the first one to test when heatsink is cold.
(The flashlight hasn't gotten warm even, as each test only takes a brief 10-15 seconds to conduct, then
battery change gave the heat sink some time to cool down).

Finally, Optimize the read out of the best set-up:

Since I wanted the setting to be exactly the same, I made no adjustment when testing different batteries.
Now that the comparasion is over, I can adjust the focus & see if I could get even more lux.

The #6 written on the dinner plate is:
Trust Fire 18650 4.14V: 2.00 AMP, Adjust focus in & out while keep the eye on lux meter through my monocular to optimize the lux.: 139,000 @ 1 meter.

Here is Plot on Lux vs. AMP of CREE XRE R2 on MagDragon Jr.
It appears to have maxed out lux out put at 1.9 Amp. At 2 Amp, no improvements & at >2AMP,
the lux probably will drop. However, optimized lux is only done on the 2 AMP condition.

However, the lux optimized spot is NOT the best looking & fully focused spot. It is actually it's slightly de-focused. The sharpest focus & visually most pleasing spot would have a read out around 135K lux. The chart used raw lux from DX meter which reads about 20% lower.
After 20% correction. The 135K lux translates to 162,000 lux@ 1 meter. I have since upgraded to the Extech EA30 lux meter & confirmed DX meter +20% correlate to EA30 fairly well.


11111es.png

Wait a minute, you might ask what's the #7 written on the dinner plate?

Long story short. Typical Lux meters are optimized for incan readings. It's a known fact that typical lux meters will read
higher on warm/yellowish tints over white/blueish tints of the same brightness.

Readings of 1 to 5 were all done by reading the center of the non lux optimized spot,
the spot that eyes see as the most focused, most pleasing even white color spot.

The #6 & #7 were done on Lux optimized spot. This lux optimized spot is not the best looking spot, it has a distinct yellow edge followed by a blue rim. The yellow area doesn't look brighter than the center to the eye & doesn't really show-up on photos either.

# 6 reading is done by reading the center. #7 reading is done by reading the yellow rim.
When I positioned the edge of the spot, the yellow zone, over the lux meter, OMFG, watch the lux meter shot up to 160-170,000 lux @ 1 meter range (vs. the 139K lux reading of the white center) & peaked a few times at 170,000 lux. That's a 26% increase just by positioning the yellow spot over the sensor :eek:

Overall, conservatively speaking, I'd conclude that MagDragon Jr. has delivered around ~150,000 lux @ 1 meter, over achieved my expectations. I was aiming at the 135K lux DEFT FTP number, a number that I had aimed for a few times, got pretty close but had failed to reach.

Certainly, the Jr has achieved a new level that neither one of his parent flashlights could even come close.
May the Jr's parents rest in peace lovecpf

.
.


 
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jasonck08

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Re: The Birth of mag Dragon Jr.: a ~140,000Lux cmpact super thrower

Very cool! Thats an insane amount of Lux!
 

ma_sha1

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Re: The Birth of mag Dragon Jr.: a ~140,000Lux cmpact super thrower

Thanks, it actually peaked around 170K lux around the yellow edge of the die,
I'll explain in a minute in post #2.
 

LED4LYF

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Re: The Birth of mag Dragon Jr.: a ~140,000Lux cmpact super thrower

Hey Ma_sha1 I always enjoy seeing your work. Your mag dragon inspired me to build a 2-d mag with the dragon head. I am not quite complete but I hope to be soon. If you soon see another mag dragon soon on cpf don't be surprised. Anyway I can not see the beam shots in post number 2 for some reason. just wanted you to know. Keep up the good work>
 

PapaLumen

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Re: The Birth of mag Dragon Jr.: a ~140,000Lux cmpact super thrower

Cool. :thumbsup:
 

ma_sha1

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Re: The Birth of mag Dragon Jr.: a ~140,000Lux cmpact super thrower

Hey Ma_sha1 I always enjoy seeing your work. Your mag dragon inspired me to build a 2-d mag with the dragon head. I am not quite complete but I hope to be soon. If you soon see another mag dragon soon on cpf don't be surprised. Anyway I can not see the beam shots in post number 2 for some reason. just wanted you to know. Keep up the good work>

Thanks, I can't wait to see another Mag Dragon on CPF :thumbsup:
I am still posting, it'll take just a few minutes:cool:
 

LED4LYF

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Re: The Birth of mag Dragon Jr.: a ~140,000Lux cmpact super thrower

sweet thanks
 

saabluster

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Re: The Birth of mag Dragon Jr.: a ~150,000Lux compact super thrower



Certainly, the Jr has achieved a new level that neither one of his parent flashlights could even come close.
May the Jr's parents rest in peace lovecpf
Good work. Now you know why I use the XR-E and don't bother with the SSTs or XP-Gs just because they are the latest or most popular LED. There is no other LED that can beat the XR-E. Now your next step is to replace the LED in your larger light with the XR-E and you will see the real potential of the XR-E.
 

ma_sha1

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Re: The Birth of mag Dragon Jr.: a ~150,000Lux compact super thrower

Good work. Now you know why I use the XR-E and don't bother with the SSTs or XP-Gs just because they are the latest or most popular LED. There is no other LED that can beat the XR-E.

Now your next step is to replace the LED in your larger light with the XR-E and you will see the real potential of the XR-E.

Thanks, means a lot when the complement comes from the Master behind DEFT!

I was thinking about making a Mag D to C adapter, so I can screw the body of the Jr. into the Dragon head with the bigger lens. I have 4 parallel cuts on my middle finger caused by holding the finned mag C head while grinding it down for hours, got to give it some time to heal first :devil:

Are there a Mad D to C adapter already made by someone FS? Definitely would prefer just buy one...
.
.
 
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Al Combs

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Re: The Birth of mag Dragon Jr.: a ~150,000Lux compact super thrower

The operations are very similar to the MagDragon build.
First, the head of the Ledean Mag 1C was cut in two halves by my trusty-old table saw:
dscf7237.jpg


dscf7249.jpg
Always a pleasure to see what you come up with. It has both fins for heat dissipation and adapts to the MagC, nice work:clap:.

Added a piece of copper around the Alu. heatsink post, changed the led out to XRE R2 from Cutter.
dscf7259.jpg
Surprised to see you move away from the SST's. Is that an EZ1000 die? If you're aiming for higher lux, the EZ900 would seem like the natural choice. It's a little hard to tell from the picture, but I don't see the orange frame around the phosphor typical of an EZ900 die. I heard somewhere the DX R2's on stars are EZ900 (sku.15943). They also look like it from the picture.
 

ma_sha1

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Re: The Birth of mag Dragon Jr.: a ~150,000Lux compact super thrower

Surprised to see you move away from the SST's. Is that an EZ1000 die? If you're aiming for higher lux, the EZ900 would seem like the natural choice. It's a little hard to tell from the picture, but I don't see the orange frame around the phosphor typical of an EZ900 die. I heard somewhere the DX R2's on stars are EZ900 (sku.15943). They also look like it from the picture.

Since i already have a SST-50 Mag dragon, I wanted to have something smaller & still be able to push to full AMP potential. One need to drive SST-50 to 10Amp to match the surface brightness of R2 at 2AMP,
I have tested SST-50 very hard, at 8.5 AMP, it starts to show angry blue tint.

It's EZ1000, I ordered a couple of bare R2 from Cutter & hoping to get EZ900, but no luck. Theses are what came in. I did try one EZ900 Q5 on 15mm board that came out of DX SS Ultrafire C3, DD on 18650 as well, somehow was not as bright, I wonder if it's the advantage of mounting bare emitter that gave the edge of the EZ 1000 R2?
 
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Al Combs

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Re: The Birth of mag Dragon Jr.: a ~150,000Lux compact super thrower

Since i already have a SST-50 Mag dragon, I wanted to have something smaller & still be able to push to full AMP potential. One need to drive SST-50 to 10Amp to match the surface brightness of R2 at 2AMP, I have tested SST-50 very hard, at 8.5 AMP, it starts to show angry blue tint.

It's EZ1000, I ordered a couple of bare R2 from Cutter & hoping to get EZ900, but no luck. Theses are what came in. I did try one EZ900 Q5 on 15mm board that came out of DX SS Ultrafire C3, DD on 18650 as well, somehow was not as bright, I wonder if it's the advantage of mounting bare emitter that gave the edge of the EZ 1000 R2?
Well it is DX. Who knows what emitter they used in a light they claimed was a Q5. I gather by "not as bright", you mean more than just the percentage of increase from a Q5 to an R2 by the bin codes? How did you mount the LED to the MCPCB? Is that AS5 epoxy? Have you ever tried to reflow an emitter? It is surprisingly easy. Just use a very thin layer of solder paste. Hold the star with a needle nose pliers and put a butane lighter a few inches away from the bottom of the star. You can see when it begins to melt very easily. Then just put it down on a block of metal to draw away the heat. That doesn't fit the Cree reflow profile by any means, but it does work. I saw one guy use his toaster oven to assemble a fairly complex circuit board with a regulation paste mask and all the trimmings.

FWIW:
Even better might be to reflow your XR-E onto a 5/16" copper bar you file to shape. Clamp it in a vise between two pieces of cardboard for protection and just keep filing until you get down to the steel. If you don't want to mark up your vise, use two L brackets and two pieces of cardboard. Then just drill a 5/16" hole in the heat sink and hold the LED in place with a set screw. The relative increase in surface area from the thermal pad on the back of the emitter to the inside of the hole gives a dramatic improvement to the AS5 compound's performance. I saw a Newbie post a long time ago where he had thermographs of a Cree mounted on copper and another one on a cheap aluminum MCPCB (not made by Cree). IIRC, both were driven to 1 amp. The copper mounted XR-E was 40 something degrees centigrade. And the one on the cheap star was 80 something degrees. It was a surprising difference. But even a good aluminum star is not as good as a big hunk of copper.
 

ma_sha1

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Re: The Birth of mag Dragon Jr.: a ~150,000Lux compact super thrower

Good suggestions, I need to look into re-flow on copper with EZ900 R2...
 
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Ra

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Re: The Birth of mag Dragon Jr.: a ~150,000Lux compact super thrower

Another very nice build ma_sha!!!



:aaa:


Regards,

Ra.
 

Al Combs

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Re: The Birth of mag Dragon Jr.: a ~150,000Lux compact super thrower

FWIW, here's a few I had bookmarked. This CPF thread has a YouTube video of a Digi-Key rep using a heat gun to reflow a Cree. You can actually see how it self aligns when it finally melts, cool video. This CPF thread I hesitantly included it because he has pictures and a link to the DX Mechanics paste I used on my copper core SST-90 (post #24). It's a good buy for paste at $3.36. But since it's not a "no clean" paste, you have to use a Q-Tip and alcohol to remove the flux residue when it cools. A syringe worth of no clean solder paste from Digi-Key was over $30 including the mandatory 2nd day shipping. Trout links to a YouTube video in post #28 where he removed a bunch of XP-E's to reflow them onto a larger star. At about 4'30" into the video you can see the one on top self align.

The OP of the second thread had way too much paste on his MC-E and several guys suggested waiting until the solder melted before dropping the LED into the puddle of molten lead. Try to ignore all of that. A friend at work uses solder paste to reflow SMT IC's with one of those $1,500 solder stations. One of the three tools is an ultra miniature heat gun with a 1mm hole in the nozzle. I learned from him you have to store solder paste in the refrigerator. The syringe of solder paste he has on his desk (no fridge) only lasts a couple of months before it goes bad. I have a Ziploc bag with my solder paste and AS5 epoxy in a box in the fridge. So far the wife hasn't asked what's in it.:sssh:
 

ma_sha1

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Re: The Birth of mag Dragon Jr.: a ~150,000Lux compact super thrower

Thanks. very helpful info!

you must have a massive collectinon of bookmarks.
 

ma_sha1

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Re: The Birth of mag Dragon Jr.: a ~150,000Lux compact super thrower

Now your next step is to replace the LED in your larger light with the XR-E and you will see the real potential of the XR-E.


Now since you asked, I made a Mag C to D adapter to use the Jr. in the MagDragon head with the bigger lens.
The adapter has inside thread of Mag C head & outside thread from Mag D tube :cool:
https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/288981

dscf7333.jpg
 

ma_sha1

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Re: The Birth of mag Dragon Jr.: a ~150,000Lux compact super thrower

Did some beam shots, not a good sign, as the Cree R2 spot through the Dragon head isn't as clean. There are some wasted lights not in the spot.
dscf7355.jpg

Lux measurement comes out marginally higher at 155K lux @ 1 meter.
Less than I thought it would be give the difference of 75mm vs 66mm lens.

The Thick lens seems to be more efficient on the SST than it's on the Cree.
This is the first time that I've noticed that maybe Cree bebefit a bit from lower profile aspheric lens,

However, Tonight I also finished the Franken MagDaddy, >200,000 lux # 1 meter
https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/289329
 

The_Police

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Re: The Birth of mag Dragon Jr.: a ~150,000Lux compact super thrower

that light looks sick! I love it :D
 
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