Scuba divers, what lights do you use (underwater)?

The failure of my Surefire 6PN raised this question in my mind: what do other Scuba-qualified CPF members use for their dive lights?

Most of the dive lights I've seen are either too big (but powerful), or too impotent (but small in form factor). Ideally, I'd like to find something in the Surefire 6v or 9v size-range, with comparable quality light/beam to have/use as "backup" to my Surefire 6PN (not that I'm expecting my replacement unit fail, but better to be prepared than elsewise).

Any suggestions on models to look at that fit the above parameters? Or, just tell us what you use.

I believe PK feels that the M3 is the best choice of SF lights for dive applications. He has also stated that none of the lights should be considered as a "dive" light.

I now have a Light Cannon 100 and recently got a KenRad Dive HID so I will probably sell the light cannon. If I am going to dive in good clear water like where you are, I see little point in bringing a wimpy light along. I have a couple old L&M video lights that give a good bright flood of light for providing full spectrum light to the reefs and fish. I haven't had the pleasure of diving with HID yet but I do look forward to it!

- Don

i've never needed more than a tec40 off the shores of maine..

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McGizmo said:
I believe PK feels that the M3 is the best choice of SF lights for dive applications. He has also stated that none of the lights should be considered as a "dive" light.

I now have a Light Cannon 100 and recently got a KenRad Dive HID so I will probably sell the light cannon. If I am going to dive in good clear water like where you are, I see little point in bringing a wimpy light along. I have a couple old L&M video lights that give a good bright flood of light for providing full spectrum light to the reefs and fish. I haven't had the pleasure of diving with HID yet but I do look forward to it!

- Don

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Don, any special reason for the M3 recommendation? I don't recall the details of the M3. Did it have more o-rings or something which would make it tighter than the M2 or some other SF light for underwater usage?

I have an older 8*D cell UKE1200 pistol-grip light that is still my favorite. It sits in my car most of the time with a W/A #01318 bulb (9.6V 1.93 A 534 Lumen) When diving, I used a W/A #01185 bulb (9.6 V 3.15 A 817 Lumen) (I think that was what UKE then used as a 30W bulb) that would melt the lens if run above water. The larger size of an 8D light is not a problem at night under water.

My backup light was a PT40 or a PT400 with rechargeables. Unfortunately, my arthritic shoulders convinced me that I would not currently be a safe diver (I have trouble putting on and taking off jackets -- let alone a wet suit)before the Surge came on the scene.

(edited to make sure everything about diving was consistently past tense /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif )

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this_is_nascar said:
Don, any special reason for the M3 recommendation? I don't recall the details of the M3. Did it have more o-rings or something which would make it tighter than the M2 or some other SF light for underwater usage?


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Good luck getting an "N"-certified M3. While Surefire used to (as in past tense) certify the M series, as of about last Xmas time the only model they're certifying is the 6P.

This info was confirmed by multiple sources, inside and out of the Surefire organization.

While I'm sure some very special high-speed/low-drag types or close, personal acquaintances of Dr. John Matthews can get one (an M3N that is), the peasantry cannot expect to obtain one except from the secondary market at this time.

Fellow CPF members,

I'm not a diver -- and although I do own several SureFires and exposed them to pretty crappy weather and the accidental drop into a puddle, I'm making no pretenses in that it's nowhere near "diving."

Having said that, and please know that this is true, an acquaintance on another Forum posed the question of the viability of the SureFire KL2 or KL3 1W retrofit LED head units specifically in a dive application (as paired with a standard non "N" qualified P6, C2, M2, etc.).

I would love to be able to cross-reference this thread for him with some appropriate discussion on the viability of this proposed setup, and would greatly appreciate any words of wisdom from fellow members.

=)

Thanks in advance.

=)

Allen
aka DumboRAT
- landlubber

Re: Scuba divers, what lights do you use (underwat

In Michigan waters I use an LC100 as my primary and an SL6 as back up I always have a UK 2L on my BCD. I use the SL6 when diving reefs B/C the tight bright beam is great for looking into the coral. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Nascar,

I am not 100% certain but I think PK made the statement based upon maturity of the design and dimensional stability and tight tolerances the M3 has been held to.

I believe most SF product is continually a work in progress with improvements and tweaks made as time and use brings new information to bear. I bought a M3 early on in my flashaholic life as it was the one light at the time that was mentioned on the SF web site as useable for typical dive depths or similar wording. After buying the light, I read about the "N" rating or certificate available as an extra on the SFDB.

More speculation but it may be that SF at some point chose to take a closer look at the M3 and refine it with attention to its preassure worthiness.

Perhaps the M2 is equally sound but PK suggested the M3 due to its greater luminous output? I'm not certain. I asked PK a simple, off the record question as to which light in the SF line up would be best suited as a dive light. The M3 was his answer.

- Don

Ron,

I'm not a diver so this question may not be relevant, but I don't understand why you are focusing on very short burn lights. The output curve of 2x123 incandescent lights (excluding the 2L) is pretty steep. This chart of the Scorpion is pretty typical of these lights.





Probably the best figures belong to the PM6:


.


If I had to use a 2x123 as backup, again excluding the 2L it would be the PM6 if there was some way to reliably wterproof it.

Still, compared to a "real" divelight with its bright long burn what is the advantage of a 2x123, unless as a small bright backup light for very brief applications? As a non diver I wouldn't feel comfortable diving with any light not specifically designed as a divelight and thoroughly tested, reviewed and well establihed in the diving community. In my landlubberly ignorance I had always assumed a backup divelight in a tight situation was kind of like a gun; you may not need it, but when you do need it you need it badly.

Brightnorm

I use the UK SL4 as my primary light, with the Q40 as backup, when I go night diving. The SL4 stays on the boat during the day, unless I'm doing low-visibility wreck diving in local waters.

I think Surefires stink for diving applications, because of the lousy runtime(1 hour or less), expensive batteries and questionable water resistance (too many points of failure at the lens, bezel and taicap). But they excel in the functions they are designed for.

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brightnorm said:
I'm not a diver so this question may not be relevant, but I don't understand why you are focusing on very short burn lights.

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Norm, the real answer is threefold:

1) As mentioned in my 6PN thread, I think its cool to be able to use a beloved Surefire while diving. I like it that no one else has got one on the dive boat.
2) The size/form factor makes it perfect for use as EDC and for diving--meaning one less "thing" to pack and carry. While diving, I use a P61, while carrying about I use a P60.
3) While diving in/around caverns, the 6PN would be used only intermittently to illuminate dark pockets and crevices to find sealife. It would not be used on in a constant-on manner. Remember, this is not night-diving (which would require a completely different dive-light platform). So, run times don't bother me. Plus, I've got SF123's to burn, and don't forget the cooler temps encountered while using your light submerged generally-speaking prolongs run-times (told to me by Surefire Tech support)...so you'll get a slightly flatter discharge curve too.

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DumboRAT said:
Having said that, and please know that this is true, an acquaintance on another Forum posed the question of the viability of the SureFire KL2 or KL3 1W retrofit LED head units specifically in a dive application (as paired with a standard non "N" qualified P6, C2, M2, etc.).


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Well, IMHO, it would be a very expensive proposition to attempt the above.

From my understanding, the manner in which Surefire goes about certifying "N"-units is to pull bezels, bodies, tailcaps "off-the-line" and essentially test them for water-resistance--accepting those with the closest tolerances (i.e. the "most water resistant") and using those parts for further "N"-certifying.

Without being extremely lucky (i.e. purchasing an off-the-shelf water-resistant unit--bezel, body, and tailcap), this process would not be very feasible for a regular, end-user consumer.

With the LED units, where the digitally-regulated parts are integrated into the bezel, the cost of the testing process for a consumer would grow exponentially--as you would not be able to test the bezel alone, but rather would have to test with the entire LED unit (risking irreparable damage).

What about the Fa&Mi Range of Dive lights?

I have a Spitlight and it puts out nearly M6 Power (20Watts)for an hour on 1 charge!

See my review on my website listed below.

Mark

I have been divng for 19 years and night diving for 18 years. Night diving is, by far, the most fun since this is when all the critters come out to play. On to lights.

I have never found one light that could do it all. The turbidity (visibility) of the water, in my experience, has a lot to do with which light will perform the best. Very clear water favors super bright and wide beams. More turbid water favors a narrower beam for less reflection back into your eyes. For real clear water I have been very happy with my UK HID light. For more turbid water, I wish I could narrow down the beam some as some of the more expensive HID's will allow.

Yet, for the most overall visibility underwater, I have found the super bright lights really assault the eyes and make you blind to everything that is not directly in the beam. I did 3 night dives just 2 weeks ago in a local Quarry (Pennsylvania's diving at it's coldest) that had a nominal 30' of viz in daytime. My HID really worked well but I could see nothing not in the beam. Including my dive buddy. My backup light on that dive way my new Tek-Tite 3c 12 watt Luxon Star (Expedition series maybe??). After a while I shut off the HID and turned on the Tek-Tite. Wow! No eye assault... yet I could see almost as far as the HID. That milky white glow hardly reflected any of the water particles back to my eyes. I had 80 to 90% of the HID visiblility but I could see my buddy, any remaining natural light and my eyes were set for night. On one dive we decended to 105ft to a boat. I could see the boat 20' away and it was fully illuminated at 10'. I ended all 3 dives not really believing what I saw with that little 1 watt light. My dive buddy on the deep dive also commented the felt he did not need his light with mine on. My testing showed the light does not dim at all for about 3 hours and then very slowly. So, at least for night dives in the quarry, I have a new primary light. I may try rigging up 2 of these light together for my ocean night dives in December.

By day I am most happy with my little UK 4AA for looking into holes and such.

Hope this helps........ Bill

Sorry!!!!!!

For all of you who started drooling about that 12 watt Luxon Star I metion in my post above.. IT WAS A TYPO!!!!

Sad to say it truly is a 1 watt Luxon Star.

Bill

hmmmm if you guys are soo intent on bringing your beloved surefires on to the dives. couldn't you just replace all the o rings with a same size with but with a little fatter rubber diameter like just a mm or so. that way it'll sequeeze the walls tighter together and leaking in or out would be very hard to come by. just a hunch. but it might also be hard to look for o rings of a certain size so i'm not sure if surefire follows a iso standard so they can pick up rings at any hardware store.

I think Bill M has brought to bear the significance of the proper illumination tool for the task as well as ambient conditions. In the case of night diving, similar rules apply as they do topsides with the added problem of backscatter (think fog). In such cases, just enough light is much better than too much.

For good vis day dives, A light is needed to look into shadows as well as bring full spectrum out. In these cases, I think brighter is usally better. For night diving, I suspect that LED lights would be fine. For daylight, I don't think they have enough punch. They are also weak compared to incans in terms of bringing out enough of the already lacking red spectrum for "true color" rendition.

Dive conditions will have a great bearing on which ilumination tool to pick. Regardless of conditions, diving demands a lot more from these tools than their use topsides. Is it any surprise that flashaholics in their pursuit of better illumination tools have often gone to a dive light mfg for a light that they *never* plan to take under water?

- Don

Thanks, guys, will link thread and pass-on the info. =)

Allen
aka DumboRAT