The Perfect LEO Duty flashlight: 4sevens and Eagletac Please Read

This post is to attempt to find a manufacturer to make a Law Enforcement Officer light that we can carry at all times while on duty and for use specifically with a stabile handgun position and secondly for investigative capacity.

I first want to qualify this post by saying I've taken several LEO night fire courses and what I'm about to say comes from those experiences, trying different techniques.

Now that we have gotten that out of the way, I can tell you there is really only one serious flashlight technique that is effective. It is the Rogers technique and it looks like this:



Now there is a flashlight out there that, ergonomically speaking, is almost perfect for using this technique and that is the Surefire z2 flashlight.

I have made this diagram showing how the Surefire z2 is superior, again ergonomically speaking, to any of the flashlights in either of your company's lineup. It really only comes down to three things:

(click on thumbnail for full image)

However, the surefire z2 is not perfect. That is where your companies can come along. We need you to make a flashlight incorporating the Z2 ergonomics for us.

The nice thing is, is that electronically, you guys already have flashlights that work for us off duty, its just that they are basically toys when we take them on duty what with their multi modes and ill-placed "cigar rings".

Here is what we LEO's need in a flashlight:

1. Protruding Tailcap so that we can use our palm for the Rogers technique. We never tail stand our flashlights.

2. A tailcap that is larger in diameter than the body. This allows the stacking of rubber rings.

3. Instead of a "cigar ring" that is just there serving no purpose, use the z2's idea of stacking rubber rings so that that we can get a higher purchase on the flashlight with our fingers and by stacking rings, it is adaptable to a variety of hand sizes. The last ring would be larger than the other stacking rings, again just like the surefire z2.

4. Use the latest LED and electronics available. 4sevens is really good and updating their line up, that's why I want them to notice this thread.

5. ONLY 2 MODES! All we want is two modes, one high, with perhaps 200-230 Lumens for tactical use with a handgun (normal activation with a tightened bezel) and one low with 30-40 lumens (activated by loosening the bezel). The Eagletac T100C2 activation is perfect in this sense.

6. Forward clicky activation. Light to medium pressure for momentary activation and heavy pressure for constant.

7. NO STROBE or hidden modes!! I cannot emphasize this enough. Strobe is just a gimmick for us. All we need is the momentary feature of the clicky activation so that we can illuminate and identify our target and de-illuminate the target so that we can move in case they shoot back at the light source.

8. Optimize the electronics and flashlight to run off 18650 Li-Ion batteries. Most LEO's are broke, we can't afford to feed our flashlights Cr123's. Some are lucky and our department buys us batteries, but the fact of the matter is that 18650's are the best Li-Ions out right now in terms of capacity and size. The cr123s can be an option but optimize the flashlight around 18650s.

9. Flat regulation from 18650s. The Eagletac T100c2 is the best example of this, however we also need a signal, like pulsing every minute at the last 20 minutes of battery life to let us know we need to change batteries.

10. We need at least 13,000 Lux in order to penetrate dark car tinting. However, we cannot have an overly thick bezel because space on our duty belt is limited. Perhaps the bezel can be made deeper. In addition, we need a moderate spill in the beam so that we can illuminate the whole target at approximately 7 yards to see their hands and face at the same time.

11. Include a sturdy kydex holster for the flashlight that allows it to be carried bezel down. The holster would be designed to fit on 2 1/4" duty belts with spacers for 2" and 1.5" belts.

12. Max cost $150-175.

13. Execellent suggestion of Ray of Light: Produce as little "preflash" and "activation delay" as absolutely possible.

Now electronically, I know many of the manufactures can already produce this light, the question is will they?


Comments?

Well thought out Turan8, but not for nothing, your photo shows a Smith & Wesson M&P Pistol that already has an integral rail manufactured on the frame of the pistol that is specifically designed for use with a dedicated, rail-mounted weapons lights.

Have a dedicated rail-mounted weapons light, like a Surefire X300 or Streamlight TLR-1/2, already attached on the pistol. Both are activated by simple rocker switches that, for most people, don't require you to adjust your two-handed grip on the pistol and provides you with more a stable shooting platform. And it also simplifies the fact that you only have to draw your duty weapon with the attached rail-mounted weapon light, rather than having to draw both your duty weapon from the holster and your Surefire Z2, as you listed, from another pouch on your duty belt at the same time.

Then, just keep whatever secondary light you prefer in a pouch on your duty belt for "investigative" and/or search needs.

To be able to go from holster to draw with a pistol in one hand and a light in the other hand into that Rogers technique successfully requires a tremendous amount of training, repetition, and muscle memory to be able to get that technique down pat, especially under high-stress situations. Whereas, a dedicated rail-mounted weapons light follows the K.I.S.S. principle...

I'm sure there are folks out there that can successfully argue that they can shoot just as effectively with a light in one hand and a pistol in the other using Rogers or the laundry list of other techniques (Chapman, Ayoob, Harries, modified-FBI, blah, blah, blah), but I've personally seen that technique in action under stress and have seen the lights, held in the weak-hand in the Rogers technique, pointed all over the place, from the ground, sky, left, right, diagonal...everywhere but on the subject(s).

That's just my $0.02 cents, but every department trains differently for low-light/no-light situations. If your department doesn't allow rail-mounted weapons lights in this day and age, that's a whole different ball of wax. :wave:

Thanks for replying and I'd actually taken the weapon light into account.

There are some problems when using a light attached to the pistol.

First off, some weapons, especially the glock 22 have been known to jam with a rail attached light, this is generally attributed weight added to the front changing the recoil action of the slide.

Second off, The rail attached lights first off require a special holster to secure them. The only decent level three holster I've seen for a pistol equipped with a light is the blackhawk serpa and it only accepts the xiphos light.

Third off, I often need my light to see inside a car during a routine traffic stop or look at someone at night, generally these people aren't criminals and don't appreciate a weapon light pointed at them...

4th, if I keep my pistol light mounted off of my weapon, then I have to take time to mount it on the pistol, then in a gun fight with adrenaline running attach it to the rail and potentially cross the muzzle with my fingers.

5th, this style of light could be used with departments that issue older style glocks or firearms without rails.

So I still see the need for for this style of light.

I forgot to mention, this can also be used in addition to a weapon light in case of failure.

There are other "features" that you may not want in a truly tactical light, other then strobe and hidden modes that you mentioned.

I specifically refer to what we call "preflash" and "activation delay", both caused from a deeply rooted incompetence in writing the firmware code for the MCUs.

Virtually ALL multimode flashlights have some delay time (with few notable exceptions, like the Olight M20), ranging from 0.1 to 0.4 seconds.

In high adrenaline situations - where the perception of time passing is dilated, these times seems an eternity...

Other lights (consider some JetBeams as an example) produce a pre-flash of 20 mS, which is of no value in any situation, not only in tactical / combat scenarios.

Regards

Anthony

dump the clicky. sometimes you need to turn it off faster than you turned it on. a two hundred lumen gladius would be perfect. easy to hold down button. you can use one mode queue up another and have it instantly activate with a push of the button.

turan8 said:

Thanks for replying and I'd actually taken the weapon light into account.

There are some problems when using a light attached to the pistol.

First off, some weapons, especially the glock 22 have been known to jam with a rail attached light, this is generally attributed weight added to the front changing the recoil action of the slide.

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What other guns? The Glock 22 is the only one with a known problem.

Second off, The rail attached lights first off require a special holster to secure them. The only decent level three holster I've seen for a pistol equipped with a light is the blackhawk serpa and it only accepts the xiphos light.

Click to expand...

Safariland 6360 series

Third off, I often need my light to see inside a car during a routine traffic stop or look at someone at night, generally these people aren't criminals and don't appreciate a weapon light pointed at them...

Click to expand...

This argument always comes up when weaponlights are mentioned. Completely irrelevant. Just because you have a weaponlight does not mean you do not have a handheld light. Why the heck would you pull your gun out to use its light???

4th, if I keep my pistol light mounted off of my weapon, then I have to take time to mount it on the pistol, then in a gun fight with adrenaline running attach it to the rail and potentially cross the muzzle with my fingers.

Click to expand...

Easy. Carry your pistol witht the weaponlight attached or dont use one at all. Putting it on "when you need it" is just stupid.

5th, this style of light could be used with departments that issue older style glocks or firearms without rails.

So I still see the need for for this style of light.

Click to expand...

Absolute nothing wrong with your light idea, but the weaponlight is not relevant to handheld lights?

This topic has been talked to death on CPF. I also think the initial suppositions and conclusions show a distinct lack of operational knowledge in the law enforcement field, especially as it relates to operating in low light conditions.

3. Instead of a "cigar ring" that is just there serving no purpose, use the z2's idea of stacking rubber rings so that that we can get a higher purchase on the flashlight with our fingers and by stacking rings, it is adaptable to a variety of hand sizes. The last ring would be larger than the other stacking rings, again just like the surefire z2.

I believe this design may be patented by Surefire.

6. Forward clicky activation. Light to medium pressure for momentary activation and heavy pressure for constant.

If you mean like a Surefire-style interface, that too should be patented.

7. NO STROBE or hidden modes!! I cannot emphasize this enough. Strobe is just a gimmick for us. All we need is the momentary feature of the clicky activation so that we can illuminate and identify our target and de-illuminate the target so that we can move in case they shoot back at the light source.

4sevens said:

You wouldn't believe how many LEO have asked for strobe. They actually use it for intimidation and disorientation purposes. It would have be easy to not include it, but it would cut out a serious portion of the market. There is a reason why Max and Stobe was put as primary and secondary. Those are the most likely used modes AND they can be selected without turning the light on.

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8. Optimize the electronics and flashlight to run off 18650 Li-Ion batteries. Most LEO's are broke, we can't afford to feed our flashlights Cr123's. Some are lucky and our department buys us batteries, but the fact of the matter is that 18650's are the best Li-Ions out right now in terms of capacity and size. The cr123s can be an option but optimize the flashlight around 18650s.

I don't think many LEOs used 18650 or are aware of the intricacies of using/storing/charging them. Thats why Surefire's still so hot eh?
Very little Li-ion support there and they command a huge portion of the market.

Ray_of_Light said:

There are other "features" that you may not want in a truly tactical light, other then strobe and hidden modes that you mentioned.

I specifically refer to what we call "preflash" and "activation delay", both caused from a deeply rooted incompetence in writing the firmware code for the MCUs.

Virtually ALL multimode flashlights have some delay time (with few notable exceptions, like the Olight M20), ranging from 0.1 to 0.4 seconds.

In high adrenaline situations - where the perception of time passing is dilated, these times seems an eternity...

Other lights (consider some JetBeams as an example) produce a pre-flash of 20 mS, which is of no value in any situation, not only in tactical / combat scenarios.

Regards

Anthony

Click to expand...

+1
I've never really wanted to complain about it, as I haven't actually had to deal with designing a driver and I don't know much about linear regulation, but come on. If you write MCU code FOR A LIVING, at least get rid of the dang pre-flash!

However, depending on the kind of driver, I think you may have to make a choice between pre-flash or a delay time. I believe that the quark doesn't really have a delay time, rather that gap is filled with the dim flash. However, above moonlight mode it really doesn't matter, and can be treated just like a delay time between off and full power. I don't know enough about drivers to say what causes pre-flash/delay time, but I bet it can be fixed with some clever circuit design/coding.

Great comments people, please keep them coming, I'm already planning to add one more suggestion thanks to "Ray_of_Light"!

Let me address some concerns from members here that are valid:

"Sfca"--If the Surefire idea for stackable rubber rings are patented, it must be a very loose patent since the Tiablo A7 also uses the idea.

The strobe mode may be able to be used on a seperate flashlight we officers may carry. I don't suggest it as our main light source however because its easier for a criminal to focus on the light source that is constantly on and shoot it--whether it's strobing or not. This criminal shooting light source phenomena is a great concern and there are many documented examples

Current low light combat theory suggests illuminating the target briefly to blind them and shifting position to reduce likelihood of return fire at your present location is generally the safest method. This is even taught at the Surefire academy.

Strobe is more of a fad--I've never seen or heard examples of it being used in combat. It's more just to annoy the criminal and keep them fixated on the light source as the problem that needs to be cured.

As far as 18650s, my experience with them is that they are very stable, durable, and good for hundreds of charges. Modern 18650s with protection circuits are awesome. The fact that Surefire sells millions of CR123s is inasmuch points to their marketing success as to any real positive to using them over 18650s.

"beavo451"--I've seen more then a few jams on the M&P series and some HK's as well. Plus the fact that the Glock 22--the gun that is most often issued to LEOs--is the one that most causes problems with using a weapon lights, I believe strengthens not weakens my arguement.

I've used the 6360 holster and I wasn't impressed by it, very slow to draw comparatively, even on their video. To get to Level III you have to use the SLS hood which requires two motions, the SLS lock, another motion, and then the ALS.

Also, what about officers who have to use the holster issued to them? It's easy to discount that segment of LEOs but rather then find excuses that they should work for a new department, why not try to help them?

Also if you do have a weaponlight, this light still makes a great backup.

"Arnold Ziffle"--The clicky switch is definitely something I've thought about, but using a light without it is somewhat of a pain, even with the more fragile nature of the clicky switch. I've used the quark and the eagletac switches and found them great. So using something they already have in stock would mean reducing R&D costs.

I love my 6360.

I have a crazy idea for the OP.

If you love the Surefire z2 so much why don't you just buy one and use that?

You could put a Malkoff drop-in in it if it's not bright enough, right?

turan8 said:

1. Protruding Tailcap so that we can use our palm for the Rogers technique. We never tail stand our flashlights.

Click to expand...

Agreed, except that I think the rogers technique is more difficult to master than some of the other night shoots, and it also is detremental if you cary different size lights. The Rogers Technique is limited to the C2, Z2, M2 lights. Try doing it with an M6... I would say we need a protruding tailcap that is ONLY momentary.

turan8 said:

2. A tailcap that is larger in diameter than the body. This allows the stacking of rubber rings.

Click to expand...

Not at all important to me, as long as wet grip can be maintained even with WINTER (real winter, Canadian winter) gloves on and the switch can still be activated I dont care if the tail cap is equal in diameter to the body, or if the body steps down to accomidate the rings etc... do I like the rings on M2, C2, Z2 lights? Yep. Needed nope, nice to have? sure.

turan8 said:

3. Instead of a "cigar ring" that is just there serving no purpose, use the z2's idea of stacking rubber rings so that that we can get a higher purchase on the flashlight with our fingers and by stacking rings, it is adaptable to a variety of hand sizes. The last ring would be larger than the other stacking rings, again just like the surefire z2.

Click to expand...

Sure, works for me. Again more important if your using exclusively the Rogers Technique. Adaptability is always nice. I am quite comfortable with the fixed ring size offerings of the M2/C2 and I have big hands. My girlfriend has smaller hands and she can use it to. I would imagine we cover 92% of leo hand sizes. Leaving out Extra Small and Extra Large.

turan8 said:

4. Use the latest LED and electronics available. 4sevens is really good and updating their line up, that's why I want them to notice this thread.

Click to expand...

Yes, but I would also say that this needs to be upgradeable and adaptable. So that in 6 months when the next monster LED comes out a simple drop in can be replaced.

turan8 said:

5. ONLY 2 MODES! All we want is two modes, one high, with perhaps 200-230 Lumens for tactical use with a handgun (normal activation with a tightened bezel) and one low with 30-40 lumens (activated by loosening the bezel). The Eagletac T100C2 activation is perfect in this sense.

7. NO STROBE or hidden modes!! I cannot emphasize this enough. Strobe is just a gimmick for us. All we need is the momentary feature of the clicky activation so that we can illuminate and identify our target and de-illuminate the target so that we can move in case they shoot back at the light source.

Click to expand...

I would say more like 3 modes for me. 1000 lumens/1hr ; 300 lumens/5 hrs ; 25 lumens/days. I also like the idea of a switch around the bezel, but my preference is different that yours. Ill explain it below

AGREE... if strobe modes are really that commonly requested I dont know who is doing it. It is a running joke on who ever gets a new flashlight at work to ask if it has strobe mode. We all laugh at it call it Club Dance mode, hope that you tire the guy out doing the disco. The interesting thing about strobe patterns is that with white wall bounce they can have the same effect on the person operating as the person who is the target of the strobe. And while I have never shot a night shoot using a strobe flashlight, I have shot with STROBE lights and sirens on a range in a stress shoot and still shot fine. I imagine a goal oriented attacker wouldn't be stopped at all by a bright flashing light.

turan8 said:

6. Forward clicky activation. Light to medium pressure for momentary activation and heavy pressure for constant.

Click to expand...

Disagree... full momentary; twist for on. Smooth threads that allow for one hand operation!

turan8 said:

8. Optimize the electronics and flashlight to run off 18650 Li-Ion batteries. Most LEO's are broke, we can't afford to feed our flashlights Cr123's. Some are lucky and our department buys us batteries, but the fact of the matter is that 18650's are the best Li-Ions out right now in terms of capacity and size. The cr123s can be an option but optimize the flashlight around 18650s.

Click to expand...

Agree... however it is funny. LOTS of members here like the built in charging option ala stinger.

turan8 said:

9. Flat regulation from 18650s. The Eagletac T100c2 is the best example of this, however we also need a signal, like pulsing every minute at the last 20 minutes of battery life to let us know we need to change batteries.

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Flat regulation yes, pulse NO. Have it drop into a moon mode. The most minimal amount of change that you can notice. The PHD-M6 seems to have this figured out well! I dont need a set time, say 20 min, rather just its time to put this one back on the belt!

turan8 said:

10. We need at least 13,000 Lux in order to penetrate dark car tinting. However, we cannot have an overly thick bezel because space on our duty belt is limited. Perhaps the bezel can be made deeper. In addition, we need a moderate spill in the beam so that we can illuminate the whole target at approximately 7 yards to see their hands and face at the same time.

Click to expand...

Agree... I like some of the Tri-Emitter designs with optics right now. BIG BRIGHT HOT-SPOT no spill as its all hotspot or no hotspot as its all spill. Will really cut down on tunnel vision and allows us to see the bigger picture.

Also NO BLUE TINTS. 4500 calvin max color temperature. I will gladly sacrifice a few lumens for being able to see what I am looking at!

turan8 said:

11. Include a sturdy kydex holster for the flashlight that allows it to be carried bezel down. The holster would be designed to fit on 2 1/4" duty belts with spacers for 2" and 1.5" belts.

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Sure just dont have it stick way up in the air like the V70 when bezel down!

turan8 said:

12. Max cost $150-175.

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I think that is un-realistic if you want the light, holster, batteries and charger. For the light alone, I would be happy in the $200 range.

turan8 said:

13. Excellent suggestion of Ray of Light: Produce as little "preflash" and "activation delay" as absolutely possible.

Click to expand...

No electronics thinking... push light just like the regular momentary twisties we know and love.

turan8 said:

Comments?

Click to expand...

Description of MY perfect switch:
A z41 style switch. When pressed for momentary, from off, it goes into MAXIMUM brightness but only for as long a you hold the switch, it is momentary. When the switch is quarter turned to ON then the light stays on (Ill call this FULL TIME ON) at MAXIMUM brightness. Once the light is FULL TIME ON there is a bezel switch near the head. This switch can be turned in full circles (ie is not fixed to a setting) though it does have click steps you can feel, this ring would likely have to be magnetic. One click down (counter clockwise) goes to 70% another click down goes to 30% (you set the number and types of settings it doesn't matter). Continuing to spin the wheel down has no further effect. If the wheel is spun back up (clockwise) the light steps back up either from 30-70 or from 70-100. After that point and time continuing to spin the wheel up will again have no effect. If at any time while the light is FULL TIME ON at any brightness level if the tail cap switch is pressed the light will go into a momentary mode where it will be in MAXIMUM brightness and the light become momentary only. So a quick touch to the tail cap and the light goes MAXIMUM (for a flash) and then off - OR - touch and hold the light stays MAXIMUM for as long as you hold the switch on, as soon as you release it it goes off. Press it again for as long or as short as you need bursts of light but it wont STAY FULL TIME ON anymore, its only momentary. To turn the light back to regular function unscrew the tail switch back to locked out then screw it back to regular mode. Everything is, once again, as above.

These features are very important to me, in particular the ability to access full brightness in momentary and then have the light go out. This is perfect for the situation where you are talking to some one, 30% of maximum output no one is blinded, a weapon suddenly is produced its easy to temporarily blind the suspect and then make it dark so you can find cover, just tap the switch. It also makes it easy to go fast BLACK if something like a firearm is produced; a quick tap and the light flashes bright and then goes black. No need to use two hands to unscrew the cap to get in the dark. Seek cover and get ready to fight.

I also have to agree, while I have not used EagleTacs kit at all... no experience. Looking at their product lineup... they would easily be able to produce a compitent version of this light!:devil:

Stephen

Hellbore said:

I have a crazy idea for the OP.

If you love the Surefire z2 so much why don't you just buy one and use that?

You could put a Malkoff drop-in in it if it's not bright enough, right?

Click to expand...

One reason I can think of:
No multi modes, one of the portions of this thread to examine how a multi-mode light could work in a police environment.

Stephen

Hi everyone,

I thought I would contribute to the discussion as I believe I can bring a small contribution from UK LEOs.

I am not sure how many of you know about it, but regular police officers in the UK (both paid and voluntary) are not qualified to carry firearms. In order to do so, you require a minimum of two years in the job, and then go through intensive training and preparation. As a result, only a small portion of police officers are rated with a firearm. All other officers, however, do carry the standard equivalent... Among these items, a torch (flashlight).

Therefore the LEO flashlight topic the way turan8 has presented it is a particularly appealing one.
I have scoured the forums and the Internet in search of a good, reliable, unquirky torch. They all have their problems. I can confidently talk about the ones I have tested lately.

The JetBeam RRT-0 has a noticeable delay in its activation which made me believe it was a reverse clicky while instead it took the MCU that long to decide it had to be on.

Fenix's LD20 and TK12 have been the best so far. However, it has the usual delay when you turn it on and it has a reverse clicky.

The TK12 blows out 300 lumens and runs on an 18650. It even has the silly strobe, but you can stay easily away from it.
The only problem with it turns up when you start flashing the torch... It has a bloody noticeable delay in it which makes it impractical for what I call "shine and shift" situations.

With regards to the comment about buying a Z2, sure... It was the best torch... Five years ago. Last night I went to the beach to test my torches. The Z2 equipped with its 60 lumen LOLA assembly was more like a shadow compared to any of the LED torches. Unfortunately torch technology has moved on and even though the Z2 has perfect ergonomics, it has nowhere near the required runtime, power, or throw.

As a note about the strobe, I feel like casting my vote against it. Apart from one or two films, I have never seen it used... Let alone in real life. As it has been said, it is a fad. And an annoyance. Blasting 300 lumens in someone's retinas and then moving to a completely new and unexpected location is a core principle of low-light techniques (maybe not the 300 lumens specific part).

4Sevens has an incredible lineup of torches and a great service. However, next time someone whips out quotes in favour of strobes, make sure they are not from a business selling them...

Lastly, I can say that until such a torch that meets LEO needs is made with today's technology, the nearest match I have found is the Thrunite Catapult V2. It has two modes - high and low, runs on primary and secondary lithium cells, and puts out 1000 lumens. The only disadvantage is that it cannot be held using the Rogers Technique. I have not bought it yet, so I cannot say more about it.

The only contribution I can make in favour of turan8's project light is to make sure it has a sturdy spring assembly holding the batteries. I am not talking floating-positive-contact style like some of the latest torches. Something like Surefire's M3 springs between the bulb and the batteries would do. Although Surefire placed it there to protect the fragile bulb from recoil when used under a rifle, it would add durability to the LED and its electronics (my suggestion is no MCU - keep it simple) and makes sure the batteries are still making contact when and if used as kubotan.

Regards,
Sharp

Thank you guys again for adding, please more comments, we have enough duty light topics here that I figure we can make this a big thread!

Responses--

@Hellbore--well the Z2 has it's problems as I stated, namely lack of easy use of 18650 cells, modern electronics, flat regulation, and lack of any multi-modes.

The Z2-S only puts out 160 lumens (they under rate their lumens but still its max 200 OTF and now 4sevens and Eagletac both have lights that out perform this), and it has the dreaded strobe mode along with the same lack of rechargeable ability.

A bored out Z2, with a malkoff M30 (no longer produced), running a 18650 cell, would be somewhat fitting the requirements, but we still don't have multi-mode, we still don't have have flat regulation, we still don't have 13,000 lux, and we accrued a cost of more than $200, not including a holster, batteries, charger, etc.

@Troop#26--Thanks, you really seem to get the jist of this thread. As far as the pure momentary switch I think that could be an option, but I think a hard click would do.

The problem I have with the twist-for-constant-on-switches is that they are usually either too hard to twist one handed, or they spin too easily and come off or ride too far up. I think if they are well done it would work okay, but the forward clicky on the eagletac t100c2 has an pretty impressive switch which I think would cut down on R&D cost.

The three mode bezel change is something I think we are similar on. Basically something separate from the main activation, where we don't confuse our investigate light output with our tactical light output.

As far as the charging I also think we see eye to eye. I'm not favoring the built in charging because on high-call nights I may not be able to fully charge it, I'd rather just switch out to a fully charged battery.

For the holster I'm thinking something similar to this bladetech holster, where there is a slight retention on the lip of the bezel and the holster is deep seated enough so it doesn't slip out during ground fighting. Maybe it can be improved by putting a drain hole on the bottom:


@Sharp--wow, I've never thought about you UK guys! New thought process, but I still think something to blind an opponent and then seek cover like you said is useful for armed and unarmed officers.

One thing I like about UK officers is you guys use a vest for your duty gear, we're limited to mainly a duty belt and have to be very judicious of what we put on there. That's kinda why I would want to stay away from the catapult sized bezel, just takes up too much room. However, the catapult is definitely with the needed lux!

I'm glad you told me about the TK12, because that is precisely what previous posters on this thread said is a big detractor to some of these so-called "tactical lights"--delay between physical and actual activation. 4sevens and Eagletac take note!

I also like your idea about the sturdy springs, its a vital component to a tough light.

I have a Surefire C2 with a two stage switch (push a bit for low, push more for high; like a Surefire LX2) and a Malkoff M30W. This is pretty much what I'd want as a police officer. I'm retired from the army, but have used this alongside a pistol in training with good results.

The Surefire F23 beam shaper gives a wider beam (still not all flood) and is a great accessory when using the light indoors.

I remember when we used maglites with our handguns so 200 lumens is quite a lot Today there are lots of good options

@Troop#26
I do like the Switch / UI you describe. I think I would buy one!

Cheers
Thorsten

Xacto said:

@Troop#26
I do like the Switch / UI you describe. I think I would buy one!

Cheers
Thorsten

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Thanks Thorsten!

I came up with this a while ago. The problem I have come up with is how to get the tail to communicate with the "ring" by the bezel.

I've been trying to sell it to anyone who will listen, the price is even right at FREE! One day when Im flush with cash and cant find a new cool light on here I like (some time around hell freezing over), Ill trow some money at one of the top level modders and see if they can figure it out!

By the way... Im still :thinking: with regards to 4sevens stating that taking out strobe will eliminate part of the market. The possibility of a separate dedicated switch on the tail or on the bezel for the "needed strobe function" might be an option with the UI I proposed, a separate button that can be used with out even turning the light on, apparently that is what 4sevens customers want anyway. However this is introducing a hole bunch of thinking into a fighting light, but making something that works for EVERYONE in mind I can deal with it. I would be fine with it as long as the UI I proposed being activated over-rode what ever strobe function of the day was being used. Lastly I would want what ever switch we decided to use for this strobe to be recessed and HARD PRESS so I didn't ever have to use it.

Lastly on this note... a lot of people dont like the bottom button tactical switches (apparently anyway). When the LAPD did all their research and created the Pelican 7060 LED for them they incorporated a dual switch, one up by the bezel and the bottom button that DOMINATES anything with the word tactical and flashlight on it today. I dont see why this could not be included as well. It plays nice with all the coppers who are used to their 3D Mag Light clubs... I mean illumination tools.

So really... some one build my UI already!

Stephen