L4/TW4 experiences

Chop

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I had an odd experience tonight. My son and I went for a walk on a trail to kinda make up for a missed camping trip (that's another story). Anyway, I gave my 4 year old son my Streamlight Scorpion and I took my new L4 (got it today). While we were walking, my son made a comment. He said, "daddy, my light is brighter than yours." This kind of hit me. I mean, I just spent $140 on this Surefire and my son, with his $20 Streamlight, was able to say this.

OK, I'll admit the L4 was whiter than the Scorpion, but that's it. If someone had told me, at that moment, that I was going to be stranded there for the night and I had to choose a light, I would have chosen the Scorpion. Some may ask, why?

Well, because. The L4 does have a larger hotspot and more spill light, but that hotspot dissipates quickly over distance and how much spill light do you need? Walking by trees and shining the L4 up into the trees revealed that the L4 did indeed light up much of the tree, but there wasn't really enough light to see anything. Lighting up a tree with the Scorpion was another story. The Scorpion also had enough spill to light up much of the tree and enough light in the hotspot to see what was in the tree.

It seems that the L4 is good at short range lighting, but I wouldn't say it is good at close up lighting because it is too bright. After my experience tonight, I spent a little time running around my house with all of the lights out (my wife thought I was crazy). After doing this, I came to a conclusion. For throw, the KL4 is not what I want and for close up work, the KL4 is not what I want. I really don't see this L4 getting much use from me.

For close up to short/medium range my KL1 modded with a Q3J does really well on either the E1e or E2e body. It has good side spill and a bright hotspot. It's also whiter than the L4. At this point I thought, maybe I could just use the KL4 on my E1e body. Well, I tried that and I have to say that I was less than impressed. When trying the KL4/E1e combo, it was indeed brighter than a stock KL1 when held 12 inches from a wall; but when compare to the modded KL1 at say 10 feet, the light from the KL4 seemed like it was, well, sick for lack of a better word. It just seemed like it could be doing better. The E1e performs much better with the KL1 modded with the Q3J in terms of throw, practical useable light and runtime.

For throw I'll use my Scorpion, A2, E2e w/P61.

The L4 is a cool little light, I just missed the purpose of it. I think I would have liked it alot better if it was available with a optic that had the capability to focus the light a little better.

I certainly don't mean to get anyone PO'ed, it's just an observation.
 

avusblue

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Nov 26, 2002
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Saint Paul, Minnesota
You're right. They really stink! I'll do you a favor . . . and take it off your hands for, say, $15 or $20? Then you'll be rid of this problem.

PayPal pending,

Dave /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
 

robk

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Mar 11, 2003
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Near Daytona Beach, FL
That's why I resist all temptation to buy an L4. Believe me, it's been difficult! I don't think it is "ready for prime time". I have a few SF lights, and they are great, but I think the L4 is a turkey. Just my opinion, go easy on me.
Rob
 

kakster

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Personally, im waiting for the KL5. Hopefully, the larger reflector will focus a bit tighter.
 
T

TACTICAL WAREHOUSE

Guest
I have a great number of cool lights at my disposal. The TW4 and L4 are now my most used lights. I think they are both incredible! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Dan
 

ttran97

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I don't think the TW4 should be grouped into this thread. Yes, it uses the same head as the L4, but it's meant for a different purpose. The TW4 should be compared against other lights that are similar in size, such as one of the other 1x123 cell LED lights common here on CPF. My opinion is that the TW4 is the brightest light you can get in that small of a package. Of course, many would think I'm biased, but I'm entitled to an opinion too.
Edit: Also, comparing a modded KL1 to a stock KL4 is like comparing a fixed-up 300 hp car with a stock car straight from the factory...

As for the L4...I see it as a natural advancement, or even evolution, of the E2e. Not only does the L4 have a much whiter light and longer run time than the E2e, it also has the clickie tailcap. These LED lights are the latest in technology, and not only do the bulbs last an insane number of hours, they're also regulated. Just my two cents. I'm sure others will be happy to take the L4 off your hands if you're not satisfied with it. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
 

Chop

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Rob,
Just hold off and follow kakster's lead. You really aren't missing out on anything. I've got two KL1's that are modded with R flux 1 watters. They are great. They're with CM right now for overdriving to 700mA. I think that those will be the ticket. The optics provide for a nice hotspot with throw and a good amount of spill. The larger reflector in the KL5 may help. Then again, someone may come out with an optic that works well with 5 watters. Is that what the 30 mm optics are supposed to do? I don't know.

Maybe what the L4 needs is a good side emitter and a little overdrive. From what I understand, the LED in the L4 isn't even driven to 700mA. Maybe a good side emitter driven to around an amp would make a serviceable light, but I'm just talking. I'm still a newbie and learning.
 

CM

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LED's have limited applications right now and it's for short to medium range illumination. Currently, I don't know of any LED-based light that can kick an incandescent's arse in the throw category. As the technology improves, we may see that change. This technology is still in its infancy and still has a long ways to go. But if it follows Moore's law, we'll be happy campers in just a few more years when we have HID like lights that we can stuff into our pockets.

CM
 

Chop

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To the guys at TW. I just wanna say that I love you guys. You guys really took care of me.

I do agree with ttran. The L4 is an advancement in the evolution of LED technology. I'd imagine that one year from now, no one watter would even be mentioned in the same sentence with a five watter. But now, the commercial five watt products are still in a stage of infancy. There is room for improvement.

Am I disappointed? No. I know this kind of sounds like I'm talking out of both sides of my mouth. The L4 did not live up to the expectations that I had built for it, but I still have a Surefire L4 and it's a cool light. I'm playing with it right now. I get the feeling that the more I use it, the more I will like it. It was the same way with the A2. Do I feel like I got my money's worth? Yes. The L4 is a Surefire quality flashlight! In fact, my 14 year old just dropped it on the floor. Not a scratch on it and I don't have to worry about the bulb.

I still haven't used it for its intended purpose. That's a camping/fishing light. I'll have to see how it does in that role. My first post above was simply an observation that I made as a result of a comment made by my son. The reason I posted it was because I was looking for some feedback as food for thought.
 

ttran97

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[ QUOTE ]
Chop said:
To the guys at TW. I just wanna say that I love you guys. You guys really took care of me.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, we love you too! Group hug! haha. Anyway, I just wanted to add that the A2 is one of my favorite lights! Right now, I have three KL4s...one is on an E1e body (TW4), and one is on a 3x123 prototype body. The other, I'm trying to decide which girl to give it to. It's also in a TW4 configuration. As you can see, I don't have the KL4 in the "L4" configuration, so I do understand where you're coming from. My A2 fills the niche that an L4 would fill. However, I'm sure that people who don't have a lot of lights will find that the L4 is quite versatile and covers a wide range of needs.

I hope that you do find a suitable use for the L4 and I'm sure that the more you use it, the more you'll love it. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
 

ttran97

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hehe...just noticed that this belongs in the LED section... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif
 

Chop

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ttran,
If you give the TW4 to a girl as a gift, give it in the form of a proposal. If the law in your neck of the woods is the same as it is in Louisiana, a gift given in anticipation of marriage must be returned if the marriage falls through. That way you get it back when you don't like her anymore. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
 

ttran97

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Chop...hmm...you gave me a good idea. I should propose to BOTH girls, and the one that accepts is the one I give the TW4 to! Thanks!

Although in reality, I'll probably end up getting shot down by both girls and the TW4 will just sit in the bottom of my sock drawer for life... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif
 

brightnorm

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Oct 13, 2001
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I just returned from rural Canada where I tested fifteen lights assisted by two friends. The lights were:

LED

ARCAAA
ARC LS I
ARC LSH-P
Lambda Illumninator
L4
McModule
Streamlight TL-2 LED
Streamlight TL-3 LED
3x123/UBH/KL1


INCANDESCENT

D3/SRTH/N2
E2E/MNO3
Nascar-Mod/P61/E2E
PM6
UK 2L


COMBINED

Streamlight TT 3C

Naturally the incandescents outthrew the lEDs, but we agreed unanimously on our favorite light for night walks on dirt roads bordered by trees or thick brush, and in open fields; it was the L4. I tested the best of my four KL4's; perhaps that was one reason for its excellent showing, but as a short-medium range general use wide dispersion light it was unbeatable.

We knew it wasn't a long throw light and actually felt surprised when it performed as well as it did. It was outthrown by the TL3 and McModule and possible even the LSH-P, not to mention the incandescents, but we were never disappointed since throw wasn't its design goal.

If you want the longest throw in a 2x123 light get a PM6, ASP Taclite or TACM III, since they will outthrow all other 2x123's (and probably all non-turbo 3x123's.

Brightnorm
 

this_is_nascar

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I think the problem is the expectations of those purchasing the L4. If you are/were expecting it to be a 2-cell LED light that could stand up to the 2-cells incandescents for throw and reach, then you're probably dissappointed. If you were expecting a good, regulated, flood, white light then for the most part you were happy. I certainly wasn't expecting great throw from any of my L4's. To reach-out, I have my A2, E2E, E2E+, etc. In the flood category, nothing outperforms the L4 from what I've seen. It's a great light, but won't serve everyone's purpose.
 

mvario

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Mar 9, 2003
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New York, NY
I use my L4 mostly indoors (don't have a lot of woods and unlit dirt trails here in Manhattan). I think it makes a great middle-range indoor light. Totally light up whatever half of a dark room I point it at.

As for LED through versus incandescents... well they may not be "manufactured" but my SNII and Megalite put out throw at least comparable to any of the incandescents I have.
 

SilverFox

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Jan 19, 2003
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Bellingham WA
Hello Tony,

I have had just the opposite experience.

I just got back from a kayak camping trip. One night I was asked if I could help locate a dropped knife/multi-tool down by the boats. Of course everyone knows I am well prepared with flashlights.

The people I was camping with were carrying button cell key chain LED's and some had Pezel Tikka head lamps. I pull out the L4 and put it into my pocket. I head on down to the search site with my ARC AAA and begin looking around. Everyone is standing around looking surprised that I did not have more light, but no one said anything. After a few minutes, I announce that "We need MORE light!" Everyone laughs and it is mentioned that this is why I was brought into the search. I then mention that I have this other LED light in my pocket and hand it to the guy that lost the knife.

Now picture this... We are in a remote area, there is no light source other than the key chain lights and the stars. The guy points the L4 at his face and turns it on.

Needless to say, he was led back to the camp site as a blind man.

We found the missing knife and everyone oohed and awed over the L4.

Tom
 

brightnorm

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Oct 13, 2001
Messages
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[ QUOTE ]
SilverFox said:
...Now picture this... We are in a remote area, there is no light source other than the key chain lights and the stars. The guy points the L4 at his face and turns it on.

Needless to say, he was led back to the camp site as a blind man....

[/ QUOTE ]

I will never understand why people do this. To me it would be like testing a gun by putting your hand in front of the muzzle.

Brightnorm
 
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