The Palm vs PPC thread

Inspired by Saaby's "The Mac vs PC thread", I decided to start another OS war - the OS being for handhelds.

I am a sworn Palm user. PPCs are like Macs - they are expensive and software for it is minimal.

Here's why Palm is better /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif http://www.palmone.com/us/products/compare/palmos-vs-pocketpc.html

Dan (a stuck Palm user)

The more expensive and less software doesn't really apply anymore as amount of software for each is more than enough and the palms keep adding features makeing them more expensive and the ppc's keep getting cheaper. The arguement with either is apples vs oranges. Palms were designed to be a PDA to replace paper disorganizers and such, and they just keep adding features. The PPC's were designed to be a pocketable PC with the PDA function being an add on just like it is on a regular PC. Comparing them to the pc/mac isn't quite the same and the pocket pc OS isn't a bloated windows OS, it was completely written from scratch and is just Windows look alike. Unfortunatly thats my only problem with the ppc's, I don't want look alike I want the real thing in a pocket size format. I've had both and both take some work convertng and scaling down documents to make them work with their software. I'm slowly makeing the switch from windows to linux and am watching the handhelds projects where thay are porting Linux to pocket PC's. I'm holding off on buying a PDA for now and choose a light small laptop to function as my PDA untill I can get a little better at linux and can then run it on a pda, pocket pc or palm hardware doesn't matter, whichever has the most Linux ability. I'm probabally different that most as I eat and sleep computers and pretty much have my lift stored on a hdd. I scan all papers and throw them away and have information all the way back to high school (I'm currently 30), documents that have went from Commodore to Amiga to PC. I'm also following the wearable computing community, that may be my next route, as I have found pocket pc still too limited and palm way too limited to be of much use to me.

Ah, but the last update of the PalmOS made it compatible with the same chip that they use in the PPC devices. So the main reason that the PPC things were faster is about to go away. I'm waiting to get a new palm for a few more months until the next gen of hardware that use this new chip. They should be pretty sweet.

Palms will finally be capable of the kind of multi-media stuff that you can do on your PPC device.

What about that Sharp Zaurus? it has a version of Linux i believe.

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kakster said:
What about that Sharp Zaurus? it has a version of Linux i believe.

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I've seen that model before - it's a bit clunky, and the battery life may be not so great. Palm's can be recharged WEEKLY, not DAILY like most PPC's. The ActiveSync for PPC is the worst synchronization ever - its so selective about when it wants to work and when it doesn't. With HotSync, one press and everything is backed up and synced within seconds.

Dan

I will agree that the palm feels more integrated and part of my desktop system. I've played with PPC's and they do have some really killer features and abilities that Palm hasn't been able to match yet. But with the new hardware, I have high hopes for next year for Palm...

I have the luxury of not really needing a new one anytime soon, so it's no hardship for me to wait a year before upgrading my ancient palm. If you need something right away it will be a hard choice right now!

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James S said:
If you need something right away it will be a hard choice right now!

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Not really, there's the new Sony UX50 or the Garmin iQue 3600 - I will get one of them within the next week...

Dan

I use a basic monochrome Clie, and haven't found any need to go to anything else, because it suits my purposes fine- The main must-haves for me are:
-decently long battery life, because I don't want to be stuck with dead batteries when I'm away from the charger
-instant on resume function, where it continues where I left off, without any delay or boot process. I use a Stowaway keyboard with it for taking notes at full speed, and it allows me to type in an entry, then shut it off until I need to enter something else.
-compact size; though I lug around so much that it makes it relatively negligible, I like it as small as it could be, while still practical.

I just need it for quick text entry and search, and storing information; graphics and multimedia may be neat, but it's not what I need it for- my laptop serves that purpose when I want it, or else I prefer standalone MP3 players, voice recorders, etc. I don't want to spend all my battery power on the entertainment, and then be dead in the water when I actually need the PDA part of it-
I haven't looked at the latest PPC's, but when I was playing around with a Compaq PPC, it just seemed too cumbersome for my purposes. With some time to figure out shortcuts in getting around the functions, it probably would be okay, but the basics are all I need, so I'm sticking with the Sony.

The only thing I wouldn't really mind is maybe a bump up in speed, because I'd like it to be snappier when doing global text searches and stuff- otherwise, I'd be a hard sell for PPCs..

I used USR/Palm for the first 3 generations. Loved them. I moved on to an iPaq 3650 and now use an iPaq 5450. Why? I travel 40% of the time, I use the integrated Wifi and Bluetooth, check email remotely, and I really like the biometric fingerprint scanner for security in case I leave it in an airport inadvertently. I activesync over Wifi anytime I want and the speed is very fast. I have not had problems with ActiveSync, but I suppose I'm an advanced windoze user. And yes, I'm bleeding edge, I would not recommend the 5xxx series for every PDA user. The only application I REALLY miss from the Palm is Mathpad, a multi variable equation solver. Man that was a great program.

Ah, another great debate.

First off that link where you compare them is wayyyy out of date. Lets go through it point by point.

Software Titles: Does anybody else find it interesting that they add on the Palm side "This number does not include any of the specialized applications that are developed in-house by many corporations." well neither does the number on PocketPC. Anyway this is a moot point, most the more popular apps have versions for either platform. So far I haven't found anything that I can't do on my Axim but I could do on a Palm due to the lack of software support, it's just the opposite, in fact.

Software compatability: This is another moot point. *ANY* new device you buy uses the ARM platoform software. All new software is written for ARM. I guess it's only a problem if you buy an old PocketPC because all the new software is ARM, but if you buy a computer that can only run Windows 95 or a 68k Mac that can only run up to System 7...

HW Freedom of Coice: Also out of date. Now days you have PocketPCs and Smart Phones. It's my understanding that Smart Phoens don't run PocketPC software, but that's because Smart Phones are optomized to be Smart Phones, not PocketPCs with a phone thrown in as an afterthought. You can get those too though, so it's a moot point.

Software Developers: I don't develop for either platform so I won't comment.

Enterprise Standards: This s great but how many of you does it effect

Enterprise Solutions: Again, how many CPF users care?

Market Share: Out of date. PocketPC is gaining market share.

Expansion: They're out of date, PocketPC wins. If you have a Clie you need a different keyboard than a Palm brand Palm. Same with PocketPC, iPaqs and Axims use different keyboards. Handera Palms have a Compact Flash slot but guess what guys, Handera is out of buisness. I think some Palms have a CF slot though. Now days almost all PocketPCs have a SD slot, and many of them have a CF slot as well. Built in. No expansion sleeve necessary--unless you use an iPaq, but that's just 1 PocketPC. Anyway, how many WiFi CF cards have Palm drivers? almost all WiFi cards have PocketPC drivers. You can even use a PCMIA card in a CF slot or if you have an iPaq you can use a PCMIA sled.

Support for Web Browsing, Web Clipping, and WAP: PocketPC wins. Hands down.

Macintosh Support: Hey! A point near and dear to my heart. Palm wins but PocketPC is nipping at it's heals.

Automatic Data Backup: Palm wins by a nose hair. Palm backs up all your Apps and Data whereas PocketPC can only be set to backup Data, BUT, if you run a full backup it backs up everything including all your settings in all your programs. Even if you don't do a full backup all your apps are stored on your PC too, so you can reinstall them at will (Or after a hard boot) in one step, but if you do it this way your settings are gone.

Size & Weight: Moot point. Palms are getting heavier, PocketPCs are getting lighter.

Battery Life: Moot point. The reason battery life is better on (most) Palms is because they have a monochrome screen or a simple color LCD. Low resolution in many cases, and the processor runs slower. The PocketPC screen is higher res than most Palm screens and most new PPCs have nice, transreflective TFTs. Most new PocketPCs also feature hot-swappable batteries, something that can't be said for the rechargable Palms which mostly use permanently installed batteries. What does this mean? On a short buisness trip the PocketPC user can charge and throw in an extra battery if they'd like. The Palm user is screwed if their battery dies because they got cocky and left their charger at home and their battery is permanent.

Estimated Steet Price: Moot point. A $199 Dell Axim Basic (Hmm, the very PDA I have) does about 1000 times more things than the $99 Palm Zire (The Palm without a backlight!)

Conclusion? I guess technically Palm wins but that's because several things were failed to be mentioned. How many people are late every day because they're Hot Syncing? You drop a PocketPC in the cradle and it syncs automatically and they stays synced. As soon as something changes on your computer it's updated on the PocketPC. When you're ready to go you don't have to press a button and wait, you just grab the thing and go. Syncing over wireless is about 100 times faster than USB, can a Palm sync wirelessly? The only people that really have sync problems are enthusiats that are always tinkering. They also didn't mention things like flashing Linux onto a PocketPC and using it with a 802.11b card as a micro, wireless web server. What about the fact that PocketPC uses a nice, computer like file based file system complete with a file expolrer where on a Palm you really just have your apps and then you import certain files directly into a certain app. PocketPCs can multi-task. That means I can be doing a sync while I look up some data or, well, you get the idea. They also didn't fail to mention that on a PocketPC, right out of the box you have about 5 more imput methods than a Palm. With a Palm you're stuck with Grafiti or onscreen keyboard that usually takes up even more screen space as the Grafiti area is permanent on most Palms. On PocketPC right out of the box you can use on screen keyboard, character recognizer (Use normal letters), Block recognizer (It's Grafiti but they're not allowed to call it that) or transcriber (Just write on the screen and, granted you have good handwring {It's no Newton} it turns it into text). FITALY on a PocketPC is onscreen and you can switch back to a normal keyboard. Heck, you can use a different imput methood according to mood and application, and most people do.

IN the end it's just like has already been said, it's foggy who is better and getting foggier all the time. What I found when I have used Palms is that they started as a monochrome PDA designed to track your appointments and contacts and they've just sort of evolved from that. I LOVE the Today screen on PocketPC and find it one of it's most valueable features.

The fact that I'm rooting for a Microsoft product when I use a Mac should tell you something.

I love my PocketPC and all it does. The fact that my school heavily subsidized it helps a little, but just a little.

The differences between the two is getting real close now so the only difference is the OS. My old Compaq Aero 2100 had the same battery life as a co-workers Color Palm, he found out that the palm longer battery life wasn't as true as they adveritse and its gotten closer. The main reason ppc batteries don't last as long is they get more use during the day, usually playing mp3's or showing off movies ans such. If you use them equally the battery life is equal. The Desktop synch software that palm sends is terrible if you try to synch with anything buy palm desktop. Try supporting palm synched with Outlook or Notes. I had a few angry managers whom had lost or had several duplicate contacts and appointments. I once had a problem with active synch and my old aero with IR and that was after playing with a beta shareware IR remote control. I just hit reset and the synch worked fine after that. I found the CE os to be as stable as NT or 2000. I have noticed a lot of people who bash MS for buggy OS's are usually the windows 98 users. I never had a problem with my ipaq synching and after the first couple weeks of playing and lettgin everyone else play with it I could go weeks between charges too. I didn't like when they revices from CE 2.1 to ppc os though, the start menu on top and the palm like interface would slow me down too much. I liked the two click to anything with one click to each pda function CE standard. On the palm and newer ppc's you have the first menu which you sometimes click on a program to run, sometimes click to bring up a sub menu, sometimes scroll down to click on the program or submenu, etc. The grafiti is also awfull on the palms, it goes against every good UI design standard, i.e. make the system learn you not you learn the system. Since the ipaq was company owned I had to give it back. I bought my wife a palm zire but its way too limited even for her and pretty much useless to me. I went back to using my old Aero 2100. I lost my spare battery pack so I heve to recharge once a week now and I can't find the cradle for it either so I'm stuck with slow IR synching, and I broke the backlight tube dropping it too hard, so it looks like a palm display /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Where to start... Saaby, since you donated so much time of yours to this topic - I will try to do the same. This post will be edited with a lot of info. I understand that PPC users will STILL be PPC users and Palm users will STILL be Palm users. I'm just doing this to convince to-be-users which should fit their needs - and I believe this will be the Palm. Now...

EDIT:
"Software Titles: <snip> Anyway this is a moot point, most the more popular apps have versions for either platform. So far I haven't found anything that I can't do on my Axim but I could do on a Palm due to the lack of software support, it's just the opposite, in fact."

First of all, a study was done somewhere (I'll go search for it) on software equivalents between the two OS's and they found that the PocketPC software turned out SLOWER overall against the Palm in doing the same processes on each device. Second of all, eliminate "popular apps" on each side. You'll find Palm apps that do anything to everything, while with the PocketPC, software is minimal. Go write a list of things you would like a handheld to do, then search both sides for software. I'm pretty sure that Palm will win out with more choices for apps and availability.

You know what? I'm tired. I'll sit back too... too tired to fight... BUT I'M NOT GIVING UP. Just tired...

Dan

It's pretty simple Logic, if you want your schedule in your hand with proven reliability go Palm. If you want to do lots more go PocketPC. My dad has an old VIIx and it fits his needs great. I am trying to get him to at least get something a little smaller but he refuses. I personally think it's silly to be a diehard fanatic over a mobile OS, so I'm not. Some people think it's silly to be fanatical over flashlights though...different strokes for different folks...

My first PDA was the Jornada 548 PPC, but I later switched to the Treo 90 with palm OS. I really liked the way the PPC OS was setup and operated. It felt like an extention of my Desktop. But it needed to be recharged daily, had to be rebooted at least once a day and some apps were kind of slow. Not to mention it was pretty big and heavy. This basically resulted in me not using it much because I would keep it in a briefcase instead of my pocket.

Then I switched to the Treo with palm OS. Although I liked the PPC OS better the palm was faster and used much less battery power. In fact the palm felt at least twice as fast with the 33mhz processor than the PPC with a 106mhz. It was also smaller and lighter and my favorite feature (I'll never buy one without this again) is it had a built in keyboard for input. I only have to charge/sync it once a week and the only time I had to do a soft reboot was when I loaded a lame app that caused problems. One of my favorite things about the Treo software is you can see a weeks worth of appointments at a time.

Looking at the 3rd party software it seems there are plenty now for both. When I got my Jornada there was way more palm selections than PPC, but now the playing field seems to be more even. Although I still haven't seen a RTA app for palm like there is for PPC. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif

I can't say whether I will go palm or PPC next time around. There are some amazing PDA's coming out in the next year or so. It looks like palm is winning me over so far with the Treo 600 the Palm Tungsten C and the one I'm keeping an eye on the Sony CLIE PEG-UX50 .

One more comment and then I'll probably sit back and (mostly) lurk in this thread.

My ideal PDA? A modernized Newton.

That Sony looks very tempting indeed, but damn, that kind of money would buy a good few flashlights!
You could probably get a decent budget laptop for that.

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kakster said:
That Sony looks very tempting indeed, but damn, that kind of money would buy a good few flashlights!
You could probably get a decent budget laptop for that.

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I'm planning on getting that... HEHEHEH...

EDIT: Here's my final statement, them like Saaby, I'm staying out of here. Taken from my chat with Saaby:

"you want multimedia? The Matrix on your PPC? battery life to last you half a movie? then the PPC is great. I like it for multimedia.

want to do everything else? use a Palm."

Dan

Which one does games better? Especially free downloadable games.

My first PDA was a Newton 2000, that i bought about 5 years ago, that died and i bought 4 others to my collection, then found someone who repaired Newtons in Canada.

I bought a Palm 505 about 2 years ago, it was a nice little thing but the biggest thing that annoys me about PalmOS is that it never allows things like multiple addresses for a user.

I was debating about waiting and buying a Tungsten T3. I bought a Tungsten T2 about a 3 weeks ago and find out that the T3 will arrive around Halloween.

My T2 has Pockettunes to Play my Mp3s, Kinoma to play videos, for games i have Space Trader, Lemmings, Monopoly and a few others.

Geoff

P.S I also run one of my Newtons as a webserver.

As for the games, it's like the other software. A few years back PPC had better games, but palm had more choices. Nowadays they both have plenty good quality games.

I think PPC can still play better action games like Doom and Quake though.