Why Surefire?

Ok you defenders, proponents and advocates of modern technology, here is your chance to tell me WHY you spend the money on these flashlights that you do.

Now, you all must know, I have MANY thousands of dollars in knives...99% of which are made in USA. I have many many more thousands in firearms, about half of which are made in the USA. I put my money where performance is. Having compared performance of Surefires to a lot of the other companies out there, they offer, quite frankly, less illumination power as a whole, on par runtimes, on par sizes per class, but nothing that I can see that puts them in a stand out for me to spend twice the amount of money on. I have a few Inova's that are made in the USA, and they are great, bullet proof lights. They are on and off...that is it. Great in that regard, but lack versatility, and therefore, they do not get carried often. One sits in my truck, another in my nightstand. They see little use. They are also half the price, or more, of Surefires that I see.

I hope none of you see this as me taking a shot at them. I am not in the least. What I am doing, is comparing reliability and function, per price, per materials used etc. I would love to buy one...especially the Titan. $240 is a REALLY REALLY tough pill to swallow on one however. If you trold me $125, I would be in...

Thoughts folks?

For the SF lights I owned and used...

A2:
-Regulated, cream-white incan tint
-90 Lumens, smooth beam
-Floody red LEDs
-Great UI (press harder for more light, twist farther for more light)
-Great type III feel & quality
-Great knurl
-RCR123 compatibility

E2L:
-SUPERB efficiency (80 Lumens / Watt), no heat generation
-Simple 2 mode UI
-Efficient TIR lens
-Great type III feel & quality
-Great knurl
-RCR123 and 17670 compatibility
-Small enough to pack carry easily yet firm in the hand

M2:
-Heft
-Shock/drop impact resistant
-Z41 reliability
-Great type III feel & quality
-Great grip ring
-Great incan host

6P
-Versatile
-Lego
-Malkoff
-Lumens Factory
-Nailbender
-Moddoo
-DX
-LEEF
-5Mega
-Bomb-proof
-Z41 reliability
-etc
-etc

G2
-Same as the 6P... but cheaper, lighter, and even more durable.

Positives about the brand in general:
-Lifetime warranty
-Free parts replacement for the lifetime of the product
-USA made, 300 miles from my home
-Paul Kim designs, many of which are patented.

I also like the M6 and Kroma very much, even though I don't own them.

What sort of light do you want?
What would the uses be of the light?
How often would you be using the light?

I have owned the following Surefire lights, some in multiples.
A2L, E1B, E2D, E2DL, M1, M6, 6p, G2. They are not the brightest lights available, however they are near indestructable. They can be trusted to perform in a situation where the need for light is critical. I keep buying them because I know that Surefire makes an excellent product and the company stands behind each and every part.

DimeRazorback said:

What sort of light do you want?
What would the uses be of the light?
How often would you be using the light?

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I have several modern LED lights...7 or 8 anyways, from Fenix, iTP, Inova. I use them for the mundane every day use of going to bed in a dark house, to lighting up a field, to taking the dogs on a late night walk in the woods. I use flashlights for hunting and camping....basically anything except self defense. That's what a gun is for. 90% of my uses fall into EDC and outdoor use.

jamesmtl514 said:

I have owned the following Surefire lights, some in multiples.
A2L, E1B, E2D, E2DL, M1, M6, 6p, G2. They are not the brightest lights available, however they are near indestructable. They can be trusted to perform in a situation where the need for light is critical. I keep buying them because I know that Surefire makes an excellent product and the company stands behind each and every part.

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I am with you on this. I am a HUGE advocate of reliability. I have not, however, heard of an Inova or Fenix failing in any use whatsoever, albeit, I am a noob to this forum, but have been a long time active member of many a gun, knife and hunting forum, and several gun and archery clubs locally including being a range officer at a public shooting range. Word of failure, even in a flashlight, travels at a VERY rapid pace. I also appreciate product support. It is a very large consideration to me.

My firearms are all PROVEN in design. My knives...most of them...are not only proven in design but also reviewed in extreme and hard use by me personally. I am a stickler for reliability...

I appreciate the discussion.:thumbsup:

If you put up a WTB on the Marketplace you should be able to pick up a Titan for about $150 almost new.

There are many many threads that ask the same question you did, and in the end, I think it pretty much boils down to solid design and construction, and for some, the ability to modify. The plain ol 6P has a huge aftermarket of 3rd party modifications.

You pay for these lites whether you buy them or not, as a taxpayer subsidized devices mostly for LEO and the military, not for Joe Six Pack on the street.
Great business model. Great market to tap into.

Having said that, I think they are built robust and overengineered. I like 6P/9P and I have just one Surefire with no plans to get more. The rest of mine are SF clones.

Just compare the thread of 9P versus anything else. Well built, impossible to cross-thread. Everything else seems like cheap junk compared to it.

Why not?

Having compared performance of Surefires to a lot of the other companies out there, they offer, quite frankly, less illumination power as a whole, on par runtimes, on par sizes per class

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I can only guess that you compared teh "illumination power" by comparing the claims of the makers... and not the actual product. Am I right?

Surefire does something that no other maker I know of does: They wildly under-state the performance numbers. The idea is that they show the worst-case scenario... not the best (or even worse.. impossible to achieve emitter specs that some will proudly claim). In ever case I know of, the specs listed on the package were surpassed by every unit of the product sold.

Surefires are expensive. In general they aren't meant for sideboard duty. They typically excel at what they were purpose-built for.

ninemm said:

If you put up a WTB on the Marketplace you should be able to pick up a Titan for about $150 almost new.

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Very interesting and enticing. I appreciate that.

I do have to ask why there is such a rapid decline in price?

How many others out there, that you folks know of, stand behind their product to a fault like Surefire? This holds a lot of weight with me.

A lot of this may end up being similar to a Randall knife. There is, IMO, no other knife that is as highly coveted and collected in the knife industry. You can buy a Randall now, for $600 say, and in 1, 2, 5, 15, or 100 years, sell it for as much or more than you paid for it...maybe a little less with use on it. The point is, collectibility and brand loyalty, of which I am a huge fan of just that. It just needs to be worth it to me.

Darell said:

I can only guess that you compared teh "illumination power" by comparing the claims of the makers... and not the actual product. Am I right?

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You are absolutely correct. Inova does it as well, as does my Alpine amp and Rockford Fosgate sub in my truck. I would expect any GOOD company to do exactly that.

As far as wildly understating the claims, I have not seen a review as of yet (might be the forum glitch that does not allow me to go back further) on a Surefire. I think a few reviews would help in this regard.

Kelmo...price my friend, price.

etc said:

You pay for these lites whether you buy them or not, as a taxpayer subsidized devices mostly for LEO and the military, not for Joe Six Pack on the street.
Great business model. Great market to tap into.

Having said that, I think they are built robust and overengineered. I like 6P/9P and I have just one Surefire with no plans to get more. The rest of mine are SF clones.

Just compare the thread of 9P versus anything else. Well built, impossible to cross-thread. Everything else seems like cheap junk compared to it.

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That makes sense to me. I reload for a reason...WAY cheaper, and I can tune each individual load to each application. I don't take powerhouse JHP's to an IPSC match nor vice versa for defense. Ammo has a LOT of market overcharge to help with R&D, LEO and military applications.

Seems like the general price even from vendors is less than the MRSP of the T1A. There are always a few guys around willing to part with their T1As for a good price.

Just to reiterate what others have said Surefire will back you 100% in my experience. I've had some issues with a few of my lights and they have resolved them free of charge and no questions asked.

Has this dead horse not suffered enough!

I realize your question is sincere, as you seem to realize that there must be something inherent in Surefire products that entice so many obviously knowledgeable folks to buy them. Therefore,

Seek and ye shall find the answers that now elude you.

We are now at thread # 837526 regarding why SureFire is so popular.

I hope when Dave closes it he says something funny

Ninemm, I brought this thread up with the EXPECTATION that this point would be solidified into my head. I will purchase a Surefire someday. I have several military friends that own them (for a reason right?) and I have put several in my hands.

My point with all of this is cost justification. Does no other company out there stand behind their product??? The archery industry is as competitive as any out there. If you don't stand behind your product, you are dead in a year or two. It is just that simple. No argument can be made against it. I would HOPE that there are a lot of companies that stand equally well behind their lights.

I will reiterate, I do appreciate the discussion.:thumbsup::thumbsup:

I can't speak for others, but my desire for Surefires come from the strength of the aftermarket, the versatility, and the overall quality of the light. You can have one single body and be able to accommodate multiple situations with all of the various aftermarket components. They're ergonomic and comfortable to use. They're near indestructible. And they look good.

This topic.

Let It Bleed said:

Has this dead horse not suffered enough!

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I think it has. I'm not re-posting, yet again, what I've posted on numerous similar topics that could be found so ridiculously easily by using the search function.

Search said:

We are now at thread # 837526 regarding why SureFire is so popular.

I hope when Dave closes it he says something funny

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Why would it be closed?

I do not, quite honestly, have time to dedicate to a lot of mindless searching and reading. I am a member of countless forums and a moderator of 2.

If I lived in wonder of asking a question for fear of the thread being closed, I guess I found the wrong place. I answer the same question day in and day out in other venues. I don't see the problem here...