CPF and LED flashlight development

Folks,

Would the world of LED lights be where it is today without this site and the expectations of it's members?

Without us flashaholics would such great progress be achieved and new innovations constantly rolled out?

ATB,

Steve.

I wouldn't say many of us (with a few notable exceptions) can take much credit ourselves for the exponential efficiency and performance increases of led flashlights over the last few years, in my mind that is simply the continued development of science. But, if there wasn't a market for such lights then they wouldn't have been produced, and such scientists wouldnt have been employed. So in a rough economic sense I guess this site and it's members are at least partially responsible..

It's been my general observation for non flashaholics that they tend to buy a light of whatever make/LED and keep it for years and years?

Surely this must account for, at a wild guesstimate 95% of the world market?

So I thought that without this site we could still be at the Luxeon or other emmiter stage?


Steve.

Well to be honest I'd think top manufacturers would have to be moving lights in their hundreds (possibly even thousands) to invest in development themselves and keep their profit margins high enough. I can not see cpf members accounting for 95% of purchases, I would guess maybe 25% at a push..

Although I guess a lot more of the market for such lights may at least read relevant posts on cpf to work out which lights would be best for them, I remember weeks of research focused around cpf before I bought my first high output led light, and it was another full year after that before I actually signed up as a member, so in that sense maybe 50-65% of such light purchases are at least in some way cpf related.

Also remember it is the led manufacturers themselves such as CREE, SSC, Luminus etc making the majority of the actual developments and most of their revenue doesnt necessarily come from selling their latest and most efficient led's but from many other products. In fact the brightest most compact led's that we often see in flashlights are sort of an offshoot of their research dept's as they race to gain an overall advantage over each other as a brand name themselves based on their apparent technological capabilities.

It would be interesting to hear from a flashlight retailer, (perhaps 4sevens?) exactly how many of their sales are directly to cpf members, and how many are totally unrelated.

LED tech is being driven forward by fixed illumination and automotive lighting needs, and the current 'green' trend. It's not like the newest emitters are made with flashlights in mind. They just happen to be really cool to put inside one.

Hi Jelly,

How many automobiles in your part of the world use LED for the primary light source?
In the UK I can't think of many, if any??

Me being an electrician I hope that household LED technology will get a big boost from the new emitters and is definitely the 'green' way forward as long as they are reasonably priced. We really need a decent light source to rival the Halogen recessed spot lights still in vogue in the UK?


ATB,

Steve.

ateallthepies,

None - yet. They're working to get there, and by doing so driving LED forward. I dare say automobiles are a larger and more lucrative market than niche high-end flashlights.

True, and if efficiency equals less fuel used then alls good:thumbsup:


Steve.

ateallthepies said:

How many automobiles in your part of the world use LED for the primary light source?

Click to expand...

The Audi R8 does (and a few others). You can go any buy one right away .. just €100.000 ..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4_k0WhpmzZ0

ateallthepies said:

Folks,

Would the world of LED lights be where it is today without this site and the expectations of it's members?

Without us flashaholics would such great progress be achieved and new innovations constantly rolled out?

ATB,

Steve.

Click to expand...

I know that some manufacturers definitely monitor this site to see what we want and adjust development accordingly. According to this thread https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/290177 Henry with HDS decided to incorporate another complete menu item based on the results of that poll. We spoke, he listened, and within a few days he is already prototyping that change!

This forum definitely drives innovation from some manufacturers!

(thanks again Henry!)

I feel cpf does play a crucial role in comsumer awarness.

I would have to say that in the exposure of LED lighting has only scratched the surface.

It's just the beginning!

jellydonut said:

LED tech is being driven forward by fixed illumination and automotive lighting needs, and the current 'green' trend. It's not like the newest emitters are made with flashlights in mind. They just happen to be really cool to put inside one.

Click to expand...

Agreed, I imagine the majority of the research and development isn't really done with CPF users in mind. Many are hoping for LEDs to replace a range of lighting systems from street lamps to interior lighting in addition to automotive applications. Just about everyone wants more light, higher efficiency, less heat, etc. The only thing I don't see as being as big of an emphasis yet is on quality of light in terms of tint/CRI.

ateallthepies said:

It's been my general observation for non flashaholics that they tend to buy a light of whatever make/LED and keep it for years and years?

Surely this must account for, at a wild guesstimate 95% of the world market?

So I thought that without this site we could still be at the Luxeon or other emmiter stage?


Steve.

Click to expand...

No insult Steve, but 95% is a crazy estimate.

Do not discount commercial, LEO and military purchases. ONE purchase can run into a few hundred thousands, millions even.

Surefire lights, while lovely and desirable products, usually aren't at the forefront of the emitter horserace. I don't think they have a single light in their lineup with a state of the art emitter, do they? Same goes for Streamlight, etc - and these brands are the ones MIL and LEO buy.

So nowt wrong with that but it doesn't say much about flashlights driving LEDs forward.

Innovations outside of that, like the Surefire Vampire IR/vis in one optic, and the switching involved - a nice feature, due to MIL demand.

I don't know where the A2 design came from, I mean.. Surely people other than aviators had a need for a combo of incan and LED at the time?

I'm sure the small manufacturers that we tend to buy from do pay some attention to our opinions, but the big guys who cater to the general public are looking at the bottom line. I'd be greatly surprised if we account for 1/100 of 1% of sales.

Geoff

So we account for ~ 1% of sales?


So what is driving the manufacturers to make better emitters?

It can't be the 'punter' who buys whichever LED that 'says' it's the brightest?

Apart from flashlights, I know of no other consumers in the UK who even give a damn about LED emitters

Are we that far behind on our little island???

Steve.

ateallthepies said:

So we account for ~ 1% of sales?


So what is driving the manufacturers to make better emitters?

It can't be the 'punter' who buys whichever LED that 'says' it's the brightest?

Apart from flashlights, I know of no other consumers in the UK who even give a damn about LED emitters

Are we that far behind on our little island???

Steve.

Click to expand...

I'll give you a real life example. Here where I live in Singapore, HDB (the government statutory board which manages public housing) started a trial run replacing the old CFLs in an estate with LEDs.

I have also personally seen LEDs being used in the new lifts installed in Singapore.

LEDs, are also used for your laptop LCDs and flat screens. And basically anything that has an LCD. While not exactly XR-E., XP-E, XP-G, do you not thing these will spur LED development?

My personal opinion.

I would imagine that none of the LED research and development is funded with flashlights in mind. We're just lucky that our hobby benefits from it.

However, hobbyists surely help define the features that appear in high end flashlights. We may not direct the whole industry, but...

...we know that the 4Sevens lights are designed with us directly in mind.

...we've recently seen HDS adjust their designs to accommodate our wishes.

...ITP adjusted their level order from M-L-H to L-M-H on some of their models and it's probably not too unreasonable to believe that CPF members and other hobbyists are the target consumers for those models since typical consumers don't care about having Low, let alone where it is in the mode ordering.

...maybe I'm just ignorant, but since LEO and Military aren't interested in AAA and AA lights and most consumers won't pay $20+ for such a small light, it seems like any expensive AA and AAA light must be targeted specifically at hobbyists (think Zebralight, Liteflux, etc).

...the whole 18650 market is probably hobbyist driven (pure speculation based on the fact that no top tier battery maker is willing to sell cells to individuals).

If I'm wrong on any of the above, please let me know. Everything after the first two is pure speculation, so I could be wrong.

--flatline

In the UK we have in my estimate, millions upon millions of halogen 12 volt recessed units which are power Hungary!!

If these can be replaced for a like for like LED light source we could seriously make a dent in our power consumption?

What I'm driving at is NO-ONE seems to be looking at LED lighting in the UK as a decent power source?

The technology seems to be there but no one wants to make these ultra long life lamps?

ATB,

Steve.

4sevens claims that much of their designs and inspritation has come from us members here on CPF.