Is the MC-E still a top contender?

I've been out of the light game for a few months. I know the MC-E has been out for quite a while, and the XP-G is very popular now. Is the MC-E still a contender in today's market, or is an XP-G configuration the way to go?

It's also tough to decide given the price drop of the MC-E.

Opinions are welcome!

Still a great LED. A couple MCE threads this week.

https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/220346
https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/290525

Yeah I read through those a little earlier. I just don't want to build a new project using MC-E's and have people think "Oh, he used those" haha.

Who cares what they think!

Individually addressable will never get old.

Decent efficiency if not overdriven.

Flexible for different configurations.....series, parallel, or both.

M bin available in multiple stores at reasonable prices and various versions always available on ebay.

When the XM-L becomes widely available the MC-E will be phased out. I doubt that it will see the end of 2011.
It just cost too much too make as compared to the XM, at about the same retail pricing. The Seoul P7
can also be had for $8.00 USD each for a 250 qty reel, maybe less now. That was a Feb 2010 list price.

Curt

Isn't the XM-L a whole lot bigger, and doesn't the wide array of emitters make it really hard to focus? It really seems optimized for unfocused applications like lighting fixtures. The only flashlights I could really see the XM-L used in would be Mules.

fyrstormer said:

Isn't the XM-L a whole lot bigger, and doesn't the wide array of emitters make it really hard to focus? It really seems optimized for unfocused applications like lighting fixtures. The only flashlights I could really see the XM-L used in would be Mules.

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The XM-L is a single chip LED. You may be thinking of the MP-L.

Yep, that's what I was thinking of. My bad.

My recent MC-E light built by AaronM uses an MC-E Warm (bin?).

At just 6watts regulated it makes 415 steady/stable OTF lumens. I also had a Malkoff HoundDog for testing and at 6wattts that one was 320ish OTF with an XP-G R5.


ONe is quad die vs. single die

With proper heat-sinking we should be able to drive the XM-L at 2.5 Amps to equal the light output of the
MC-E in a tiny package. Almost all optics that the XR/P4 and some Rebel and XP LEDs use will work with the XM-L.
The major difference will be an increase of the output dispersal angle. With the XP-E vs. the XP-G there is an
increase of about 6% with the XP-G. I would expect a 10 To 12% increase with the XM over the XP-G
using the same optic. With a reflector the increase should be less. Throw maybe slightly better or the same
at the same drive level as the XM produces more Lumens than the XP-G but less than the XP-E LEDs. But when
driven harder, all bets are off, except for specific throw designed only lights where other factors are involved.
But for general application lights the XM will be the way to go.

Another advantage of the XM-L over the MC-E and the P7 LEDs will be the almost total lack of the dreaded 'donut hole'.

Curt

Curt R said:

With proper heat-sinking we should be able to drive the XM-L at 2.5 Amps to equal the light output of the
MC-E in a tiny package. Almost all optics that the XR/P4 and some Rebel and XP LEDs use will work with the XM-L.
The major difference will be an increase of the output dispersal angle. With the XP-E vs. the XP-G there is an
increase of about 6% with the XP-G. I would expect a 10 To 12% increase with the XM over the XP-G
using the same optic. With a reflector the increase should be less. Throw maybe slightly better or the same
at the same drive level as the XM produces more Lumens than the XP-G but less than the XP-E LEDs. But when
driven harder, all bets are off, except for specific throw designed only lights where other factors are involved.
But for general application lights the XM will be the way to go.

Another advantage of the XM-L over the MC-E and the P7 LEDs will be the almost total lack of the dreaded 'donut hole'.

Curt

Click to expand...

Your post doesn't makes much sense. The XM-L will not throw "slightly better or the same" as an XP-G or XP-E just because it puts out more lumens.

Curt R said:

the XM produces more Lumens than the XP-G but less than the XP-E LEDs.

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How does this work exactly? You are saying the XP-E puts out more lumens than both the XP-G and the XM-L? Not quite.

mc-e is a great led, thou i wouldn't call it top contender,
i agree Individually addressable dies is a good thing, but not too common, all the lights that i used\moded\fixed that had mc-e had dies wired parallel, there aren't too many drivers that can utilize Individually addressability, if something is possible it doesn't always mean it is practical
in my book mc-e is a great led placed right below p7.
i would call it a top contender, if sst's were not around. i'm not even talking about xm-l, i have not even seen those yet.

alpg88 said:

mc-e is a great led, thou i wouldn't call it top contender,
i agree Individually addressable dies is a good thing, but not too common, all the lights that i used\moded\fixed that had mc-e had dies wired parallel, there aren't too many drivers that can utilize Individually addressability, if something is possible it doesn't always mean it is practical
in my book mc-e is a great led placed right below p7.
i would call it a top contender, if sst's were not around. i'm not even talking about xm-l, i have not even seen those yet.

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Why would you place it below the P7? I always though they were pretty similar.

And about those SST-90's Where are those available?

kuksul08 said:

Why would you place it below the P7? I always though they were pretty similar.

And about those SST-90's Where are those available?

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they are, i just like p7 better, larger body, easier to press against heatsink while gluing, p7 usually brighter, most lights with p7 are 700-900lm, mc-e usually 400-600, there are exceptions of course.

sst90 are available, there are tons of sst90 builds here on cpf,
cpfmp has them, so does this site, also luminus gives list of distributors. which brings you here, if you're in us

Sorry for the mistaken intent when I said that about the Lumen output of the XM-L vs. the XP-G and the XP-E,
I was referring to the throw potential of the various LEDs and not the Lumen output. Yes the XM Lumen
output is far greater than the XP series, but because of the increased area of the die and the lower surface
brightness, the XP-E should be equal or greater than the XM at suggested drive levels of 1 Amp vs.
2 Amps. At 2.5 Amps drive with the XM the throw should be slightly better. That would be using standard
available optics in the typical flashlight configuration. We will have to see what the actual throw performance
between the LEDs will be once we have had an opportunity to test them. Until then, ?

As for using the MC-E or the XR in a personal flashlight build-up, why not. As for commercial new flashlights,
no way. That would be the same as designing a new flashlight around the Philips K2, been there, last year
at about this same time.

The question of the MC-E v. the P7, both use the same die from Cree. The difference is that in a flashlight,
the P7 can be driven a 0.5 Amp harder for more output because of it's greater heat-sink area. The down side is
the shorter phosphor life vs the MC-E since the P7 does not use the latest phosphor from Nichia. Some of the
Seoul P4 LEDs do, but not all.

Curt

MC-Es are dirt cheap, very reliable, fairly efficient even by modern standards and can handle insane levels of current.

I modded my own L2 head just like BigCs L2 (wired 2s2p) but this time with a cool white M-bin and found out it can take 3.5 amps (@ around 8.2 volts) for at least as long as I can hold onto it with no blue shift.

Where are you guys getting your MC-E's in low quantity?

DX has K-bin for about $14, Digikey has M-bin for about $16-17. Not sure if it's worth the price difference for confirmed quality.

Problem is, many 'future' LED's are not available. Until then, the MC-E is a top contender if you want the parallel/series options. Use the P7 or SST50 if you don't.

SST90 costs $50+.

XPG can't be run at 2.8amps even though its the most efficient available LED. And, its competitor Rebel ES is worth looking at too.

I think what it comes down to is what do you plan on using it for, which is?

deadrx7conv said:

Problem is, many 'future' LED's are not available. Until then, the MC-E is a top contender if you want the parallel/series options. Use the P7 or SST50 if you don't.

SST90 costs $50+.

XPG can't be run at 2.8amps even though its the most efficient available LED. And, its competitor Rebel ES is worth looking at too.

I think what it comes down to is what do you plan on using it for, which is?

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DIY for-fun light projects :candle:

Can't go wrong with the MC-E in fun diy indoor/outdoor/mobile lighting.

Anyone hear if the N-bins are legit?
http://www.led-tech.de/en/High-Powe...Series/CREE-MC-E-Emitter-LT-1710_120_133.html