SELF DEFENSE in a torch a big priority? Torches are getting smaller & lighter.

There is often talk about torches being able to be used to protect their owners.

I just wonder how many times torches have really ever been used for protection by average users, not Military or LEOs.

Or is it just like having a SECURITY BLANKET with you.

The thing is a lot of torches especially LEDs are getting smaller, lighter and more powerful.

If a person wanted protection in a torch then longer and heavier is surely the way to go.

If that is the case then I suppose the Maglite type of build is the way to go.

So a super LED in a Maglite type build may be the best solution.

But people who want a self defense feature in a torch will probably also want a torch with a decent output as well more than likely because that is the real intended purpose of buying a torch in the first place.

If you want a torch with plenty of power and having a bit of a SELF DEFENSE feature then maybe a 35W or bigger tube style HID is in order.

Afterall if you can't see the would-be attacker then why have a torch in the first place?

A bright torch may put would-be attackers off.

Just how do torch users select a torch and weigh up their priorities when you don't really want to carry something big and heavy but want PROTECTION?

Maybe a TASER or SIREN built into the back of the torch is an idea.

I know I am being a little funny and it would be illegal but what else can you do to protect yourself at night?

I can't really imagine myself doing a lot with my Olight M30 Triton for protection except being very skilled at throwing it at them.

Just how important is the self defense perception and would most people be comfortable in using it as such in the real world? :shrug:

Re: SELF DEFENSE in a torch a big priority? Torches are getting smaller & lighter.

I wouldn't call it a security blanket...its more like a pacifier...I have not been able to defend myself against anything using my flashlight, except the deterrence of using them in a house full of mirrors

Re: SELF DEFENSE in a torch a big priority? Torches are getting smaller & lighter.

hmm this thread could border on being closed. Lights as weapons is a touchy subject.

As many keyboard commandos and mall ninjas will tout online, the uber tacticoolness of a strike bezel is where the offensiveness of a light can be useful.

yes and no. A firearm is lethal and a great deterrent to a fight. However training and proper instruction are important.

Just cause you carry a gun doesnt mean you can stop fights. it is a security blanket. people will attest to "better to have it than not" But there are so many issues with carrying a weapon and using it.

anyway back to lights for defense. I was told that a roll of quarters, in the hand, can act as a poorman's knuckle duster aka brass knuckles. something to do with how the solid mass and shape help your fist from collapsing upon impact.

If that is true and this is a big IF, a flashlight could possibly do the same thing.

However more likely the bright flash may help to temporarily blind a threat or at least provide a moment for you to take advantage of. however this goes back to the idea of training.

im not LEO or military. however i have played over a decade of airsoft. now take my experience with a HUGE barrel of salt. this is a game and simulation only. no real threat to my life or bodily harm.

However in my experience tactical bright lights is a HUGE advantage when used in the right conditions. It does disorient the recipient. at least it will cause them to shield their eyes and or look away. shooting back in retaliation is hence reduced. sure they may shoot without looking but to hit anything is sheer luck. That creates a moment for me to take advantage of. I either move, attack, or both.

However this is not something someone can do on a whim. It takes practice. seeing, recognizing, processing and finally acting on a moment requires lots of practice and experience.

Many people have a tendency to freeze up when bad things happen. They will do what ever it is they are accustomed to doing. No one rises to the challenge. By training and practicing, you will be able to recognize a bad situation and start getting busy doing something. You are either trained or helpless.

there are true stories of people on SF website who attest to their lights saving their lives. I believe that is one of the main goals for SF.

Re: SELF DEFENSE in a torch a big priority? Torches are getting smaller & lighter.

I am just wondering whether people buy torches with this in mind?

I am not trying to be provocative in my question, but I am just interested in how people make decisions and whether the advertising of this as a feature is really a deal clincher or even ethical as promoted by most manufacturers.

Heaps of BIG NAME torch manufacurers now feature crenellated front bezels and some are removable like my Olight M30.

I would not like to have to put the strobe function to use in a fearful situation as I don't know what real evidence there is that supports the strobe theory.

Do you get funny looks when carrying a Maglite type monster as a normal night walker and does it really intimidate people of dubious character?

Re: SELF DEFENSE in a torch a big priority? Torches are getting smaller & lighter.

A small light with a bright strobe selection is a good deterrent.

Any light longer than5 in could be used as a kubaton.

Any light smaller than 5 in could be used to poke an eye out, cause good welts in a punch or hit, or if your really desperate, you can shove it up an assailants nose!

Keychain lights can be used also, just hold your keys while fighting off an offender with your hands or feet.

Me personally, I have a few mags, one being 6d cell. But those would be better used if I sneak up on someone and hit them first rather than in a "self defense" situation.

Re: SELF DEFENSE in a torch a big priority? Torches are getting smaller & lighter.

Flashlights are not weapons. They are not better at being an improvised weapon than any other sturdy cilindrical object of the same dimensions. If you feel you need to carry a weapon for self-defense, carry a gun or a dedicated fighting knife and get good self-defense training. Don't think your flashlight will jump out of it's holster and kick the *** of whoever tries to attack you, because it won't. People who buy tactical flashlights as a weapon when they feel unsafe are fools IMO.

Flashlights do have a role in self-defense however, because they make light. It gives you peace of mind when you don't have to fear somebody may be hiding in the dark, you can just shine your light over there and know for sure. You'll see a possible attacker hiding in the dark before he's close enough to hurt you, giving you the chance to run like hell.

Not to mention the fact that a flashlight can calm a crowd when the power just went out and everything's dark. It's a general survival tool. It is made to do one thing and one thing only: make light. Light can save your *** in a lot of situations, but it cannot defend you. It can only allow you to look at the dangers ahead and give you the time you need to evade them. That's still the most important step in self-defense: avoiding danger. When you need to fight it means you've left your guard down in an unsafe neighbourhood and gotten yourself into trouble. That is the biggest mistake anyone can make. Avoid fights, and they will usually avoid you.

Flashlights are not weapons and they will never be.

Re: SELF DEFENSE in a torch a big priority? Torches are getting smaller & lighter.

Great response Solscud007. Btw, I don't buy my lights with this in mind anymore but I did with my initial purchases. For now I carry a SF 6P Defender with strike bezel and an FM Sunlight Incan module. I know this is mainly just a security blanket but I believe something is better than nothing. With my EDC I've got a brass knuckles substitute, a blinding light, a strike bezel for sharpness, and the incan to apply heat if I have to. Again this is all more for my own feelings of security and not necessarily an effective defensive tool. In a defensive situation, my main goal would be to blind my attacker and get the hell out of Dodge. If I fail to do that, then the other features are what I have left.

Btw, unless you are LEO big lights are pointless because you are unlikely to carry them and have them immediately accessible.

Re: SELF DEFENSE in a torch a big priority? Torches are getting smaller & lighter.

I can see this is a touchy subject but I really don't know what I would do if I found myself in a sitaution that I tried to avoid but that is life.

Carrying an umbrella could be considered a touchy area as well especially if it did not really look like raining on that night.

I don't remember whether this feature was ever a factor that I considered when I bought any of my torches.

But yes avoid what you can and I have been really lucky I suppose.

When I am walking at night the only thing I have is my torch.

Re: SELF DEFENSE in a torch a big priority? Torches are getting smaller & lighter.

JBorneu said:

Flashlights are not weapons and they will never be.

Click to expand...

I think there are some professionals who would disagree with that. Merely the teachings of the the guy who invented the SF Combat Grip and combat rings.

He teaches "fight with what you got" if all you got is a light, then fight with it.

However he teaches air marshalls and other LEO/military people.

I remember something important from my tactical Carbine class.

Being alert is probably the number one thing you can do to avoid conflict and being a victim.

OZtorchfreak asked "how do you protect yourself at night?" simply by being aware of your surroundings.

In a video I saw, research was done on violent criminals. They were shown a film of people on a street. then asked who would they pick as a target and why. It was the eyes and they manner in which the person carried themselves. "they looked easier".

There are stages to alertness. each stage is chosen upon the person who utilizes them. Some are at the knifes edge all the time. however there are inherent issues.

Best way to protect yourself is to avoid danger. Dont go out at night if you dont have to. Bright *** lights will help identify danger. This goes hand in hand with alertness. if you sense something bad, do something. light it up and identify it.

I choose lights to be small and easily carried. obviously if I want something bright I could use my M6 with Seraph P7 head but that gets a bit tiresome to EDC. I like my E1E with kuku tower. it is plenty bright. I have other lights but small and bright are a winning combo for me. i would carry my custom ICE surefire but the pocket clip is a dissapointment.

Re: SELF DEFENSE in a torch a big priority? Torches are getting smaller & lighter.

I rarely put my torch on high during my walks because it may bring attention to myself.

Also I don't "show off" with a high power torch by pointing it at houses or people.

I avoid being provocative at all costs, but the thought of danger is always in the back of my head when walking at night and it causes me to be on alert when walking even though we are in a supposedly "good neighbourhood".

If the only time I get to walk is at night then what else can I do except buy a boring treadmill or go to the boring gym?

Re: SELF DEFENSE in a torch a big priority? Torches are getting smaller & lighter.

Flashlights in and of itself are poor weapons, save for the larger Mags that double as small clubs.

A flashlight from a physical sense, especially in current smaller incarnations like the Streamlight PT series, the SureFire E1B, the Novatac, and others that are similar in size have very few (if any) methods to really help you other than provide some heft to your hand when you form a fist.

If you are doing things with the shiny part of the light, you're able to do lots, including shine on/off and move position, strobe the person (useful sometimes), or, in the case of various flashlight and pistol hold combinations, you can use a cigar based hold of the flashlight and then thrust with it as an impact weapon. The cigar hold thrust, of course, may only be necessary if you are out of ammo.

All require some level of training. And all methods at night require you to move to take advantage of the brief momentary flash of distraction.

-Steve

Re: SELF DEFENSE in a torch a big priority? Torches are getting smaller & lighter.

Oztorchfreak said:

I am just wondering whether people buy torches with this in mind?

Click to expand...

Some people do. My mother, for instance.

She does a lot of walking at night, and is beginning to go for longer walks, 5+ miles, in a canyon near her home. After a few instances of being followed for short distances by people who had gone up the canyon to drink, she felt her mini-mag LED would be inadequate, should she have to defend herself.

She now carries a Jetbeam RRT-3.

She likes the fact that she can blind someone (temporarily) if they follow her, and she feels it has enough heft to be effective, if she ever has to hit someone with it.

Is it a security blanket? Possibly. Its primary purpose is light, more to make her visible to cars, than to light her way. But if it makes her feel safer, and more confident, what's the harm?

Re: SELF DEFENSE in a torch a big priority? Torches are getting smaller & lighter.

There is something to be said for the deterrent effect of simply appearing to be prepared for unforeseen circumstances, and pointing a bright flashlight in someone's face can convey that -- but when it comes to physical self-defense, you'd be better off swinging a pipe wrench at an assailant, rather than a flashlight. It's just the nature of the tool; flashlights are not intended to be weapons, nor are they particularly capable as improvised weapons.

The harm in carrying a security blanket in a potentially dangerous situation is that you're supposed to be nervous in a potentially-dangerous situation. No, it doesn't feel good to walk around feeling nervous and jumpy, but those instincts exist for a reason. If you suppress those instincts, when something bad happens you'll be totally unprepared to protect yourself, even if that consists of nothing more than screaming and sprinting away.

Re: SELF DEFENSE in a torch a big priority? Torches are getting smaller & lighter.

Solscud007 said:

I think there are some professionals who would disagree with that. Merely the teachings of the the guy who invented the SF Combat Grip and combat rings.

He teaches "fight with what you got" if all you got is a light, then fight with it.

Click to expand...

Yes, but he doesn't say you'll win, or that you even have a chance of winning. All he's saying is if you're going to go down, you might as well go down fighting. The primary thing "you got" in any situation is your training, not your equipment, hence the old question "if Mohammed Ali punches you, is it assault with a deadly weapon?" If you have no training, it doesn't matter if you're carrying an AK47 -- in fact, if you have no training at all, you're better off carrying nothing that an assailant could use against you.

Re: SELF DEFENSE in a torch a big priority? Torches are getting smaller & lighter.

Are we in danger of having any object bigger than a fist being banned because of what it could do if used improperly?

What else other than torches could be in danger of being banned I wonder simply because of the "just in case" factor?

The laws really seem to be in favour of the people that could and would harm ordinary people going about their everyday business.

I am an Electrician by trade and maybe it could be considered bad that I carry my pliers and screwdrivers etc in my back pocket.

I also agree that it is good to have your wits about you when out and about.

It is a pity that we have to be this way and people are often worried that I might want to attack them when I try talking to strangers that are out just walking by themselves or with their little dogs at night.

Re: SELF DEFENSE in a torch a big priority? Torches are getting smaller & lighter.

There seems to be trend of laws banning things that could potentially be used as a weapon. This seems to be affected by the media quite a bit as well. For example, switchblades. They seem dangerous, and are if used improperly, but a person with a pencil or pen can cause just as much damage. Switchblades are banned in many places, but pencils and pens's aren't. I think it has to do with the bad guys and thugs in movies carrying them which causes a public fear of the knives. The real threat is the criminals themselves, not the tools used.

If thing are being banned "just in case," might as well stop making fists, cease all martial arts teaching, and crush all rocks big enough to harm someone. It is a pity that thing have to turn out this way. If the law makers really want to reduce crime, a blanket law will not work, they need to target the source of the problem.

And back to lights. A small light will be as effective as a large light at disorienting an attacker, but the large light has more kinetic force if swung. But the weight could be an issue of the defender is running away.

Feels good to be back on CPF again

Re: SELF DEFENSE in a torch a big priority? Torches are getting smaller & lighter.

Yes flashlights as weapons is a touchy subject here on CPF, particularly in this forum. Enough said.

Bill