Rode a Harley V-Rod today

bigcozy

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I went with a member of my club to pick up his V-Rod from its first service and he asked me to ride it back to his house (about 70 miles) and give my opinion. I grew up a HD mechanic as a kid, but raced rice burners. I own a HD FXSTC but I am not a HD apologist, and also own a Honda Shadow VT1100 and just sold a Ducati.

First, this is not your father's HD. The spitting, snarling, cold natured air cooled V-twin is gone on this puppy. Starts were immediate and warm up was quick. While the bike looks ungainly, it handles better than anything HD this side of a Dyna Sport. Very centered mass, and almost no "fall in" from the forks. The brakes are better, the supesion is better, the engine is better. While HD purists may take away style points for being not true to the old time HD styling, you have to notice the hydro formed frame tubes that bend in impossible forms. The bike is seamless, one component flows into the next, very non HD in nature. The biggest difference is the V twin water cooled engine that was derived from the HD short lived racing program and Porsche motorsports. For all the world, it reminds me of my old Honda V-65 Magna, the engines are very similar. It pulls hard from start, but doesn't go flat the higher the rpm's go - it just keeps pulling until you run out of nerve or the rev limiter kicks in. The power band is wide and immediate. You twist it, it goes right now and you better be hanging on. Combine that with the serious frame and supension, and you have HD that goes fast and doesn't have to slow down in the curves.

If you are old enough you might remember the "power cruiser" wars back in the 80's. The Honda V65 Magna, Suzuki Madura, Kawasaki Eliminator, and the still alive and kicking Yamaha V-Max. This bike falls into that category, but is much more well done, albeit much more expensive. You can cruise on this bike, and you could tour on it with a windshield and some bags. For once, you can buy a HD that you don't have to bolt tons of things on to get it like you want it, the engine needs nothing. I am very impressed with this bike, but the HD hardcores hate it. In my opinion, this is the first shot at getting the public ready for the inevitable water cooled engines. Tree huggers are going to make big twin air cooled bikes a thing of the past from both emissions and noise standards. HD took a huge engineering leap forward, and it will pay off down the road. In the mean time, they made a much better and practical bike than I would have thought they could. Maybe not as cool, but does just about everything better.

I liked it. I just can't afford it.
 

tiktok 22

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Hi Bigcozy,

Sold my Kawasaki Eliminator a few years back. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/whoopin.gif Man I wish I had it back.
 

iddibhai

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considering that porsche helped tune that engine, i'd say it is one HECK of a motor. sounds totally sweeeeeeeet and has more guts than the rider often (who will back off before engine runs out of steam, as you say)
 

NightStorm

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Nice review, bigcozy! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif If I may be allowed to interject a correction here, the engine is a V-Twin, not a V-4. All in all, its a major improvement for H-D and I hope that one day a more modern engine will find its way into the Buells (that have already shown significant innovation in terms of frame design and packaging).

Dan
 

bigcozy

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PercaDan,

Huge oversite on my part, the V-Rod is indeed a V twin, not a V-4. I had V-4's on the brain as a comparison. The bike I rode had Screaming Eagle custom pipes on it, and there was some of that famous Harley put-put-put in there, just different.
 

onelight

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great review bigcozy neat opportunity I would love the chance to try a V-ROD.but I wish they had used the dyna sport format for the V-rod, or given BUELL access to that engine. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
 

Moat

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I had read somewhere that the engines have to be unbolted from the frame and lowered to allow access for valve adjustment (non-hydraulic). After the initial rush of sales when it was first released, people eventually discovered the inconvenient and expensive maintenance requirement, and sales have dropped dramatically since.

Can't remember where I read that... may just be rumor??

The hydro-formed frame is indeed beautiful!! Aluminum tank cover and fender, too.

Bob
 

NightStorm

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[ QUOTE ]
Moat5606 said:
I had read somewhere that the engines have to be unbolted from the frame and lowered to allow access for valve adjustment (non-hydraulic). After the initial rush of sales when it was first released, people eventually discovered the inconvenient and expensive maintenance requirement, and sales have dropped dramatically since.

Can't remember where I read that... may just be rumor??

The hydro-formed frame is indeed beautiful!! Aluminum tank cover and fender, too.

Bob

[/ QUOTE ]

Bob,

It is necessary to lower the engine on many of the modern bikes and those with "shim under bucket" adjustment also require the removal of the camshafts. In regards to the V-Rod, the first valve clearance inspection is performed at 10,000 miles and then every 15,000 miles after that. Cam removal would only be performed if any of the valve clearances are found to be out of specifications. For the mechanically inclined, this is no biggie. For those who are not, the $850+ charge (for cam removal and adjustment) might be a bit off putting. Back when I started riding, if you didn't wrench, you didn't ride and many of the valve adjustment intervals where less than 3,000 miles. For those owners that trailer their bikes to Sturgis, they'll probably sell their V-Rods before the first inspection anyway. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif Keep it vertical.

Dan
 

Moat

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[ QUOTE ]
PercaDan said:
For those owners that trailer their bikes to Sturgis, they'll probably sell their V-Rods before the first inspection anyway.

[/ QUOTE ]

Actually, Dan - from what I've read, that's part of the reason for the V-Rod new sales decline - people who are due valve inspection/adjustment or have a noisy valvetrain are supposedly flooding the used market as they scramble to off-load their bikes.

I just have this notion that, concerning this particular issue, Harley made a considerable marketing faux pas - as their "core" customer market base doesn't EXPECT to have to adjust the valves AT ALL (hydraulic lifters), let alone go through hoops/expense like this to get it done.

I also remember reading that the next models released utilizing this engine will likely have addressed this issue.

Back when I was a Honda mechanic ('79-'87), we all ******d and moaned about the CBX's needing the mill lowered to service the valves (although it ended up being easy - drop the exhaust, loosen the carb boot clamps, pull all mounts except the lower rear, and - without forward frame downtubes - it would swing right on down...). That is, until Honda released the V4's - /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ooo.gif - different animal, entirely. PITA (especially the Interceptor) - even with (because of?) screw/nut adjusters.

My current '01 YZF600r doesn't require engine lowering/removal for valvetrain access, and frankly I wouldn't have bought it if it did (not that it's any easier /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif !! At least the recommended interval is 32k mi.).

I'd think any hard-core Harley guy/gal may very likely feel the same.

Bob
 

NightStorm

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[ QUOTE ]
Moat5606 said:
[ QUOTE ]
PercaDan said:
For those owners that trailer their bikes to Sturgis, they'll probably sell their V-Rods before the first inspection anyway.

[/ QUOTE ]

Actually, Dan - from what I've read, that's part of the reason for the V-Rod new sales decline - people who are due valve inspection/adjustment or have a noisy valvetrain are supposedly flooding the used market as they scramble to off-load their bikes.

Good! Maybe I can pick one up, cheap! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

I just have this notion that, concerning this particular issue, Harley made a considerable marketing faux pas - as their "core" customer market base doesn't EXPECT to have to adjust the valves AT ALL (hydraulic lifters), let alone go through hoops/expense like this to get it done.

But the air-cooled V-Twin owners have to drop the engine anyway, to fix the base gasket and rocker box leaks. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif Just kidding folks, these problems are not as common as they once were. Seriously now, the average H-D rider is now 46 years old, has never ridden or hasn't ridden in years and never had a high degree mechanical proficiency in the first place. So your statement on their expectations doesn't surprise me. On the side (and very sadly /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif ) this demographic group is also the fastest growing in terms of motorcycle related traffic fatalities (no reflection on H-D).

I also remember reading that the next models released utilizing this engine will likely have addressed this issue.

Maybe they'll use hydraulic lash adjusting buckets like the Mazda twin-cam engines used to (I'm a former auto mechanic who specialized in Mazda vehicles for awhile).

Back when I was a Honda mechanic ('79-'87), we all ******d and moaned about the CBX's needing the mill lowered to service the valves (although it ended up being easy - drop the exhaust, loosen the carb boot clamps, pull all mounts except the lower rear, and - without forward frame downtubes - it would swing right on down...). That is, until Honda released the V4's - /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ooo.gif - different animal, entirely. PITA (especially the Interceptor) - even with (because of?) screw/nut adjusters.

My current '01 YZF600r doesn't require engine lowering/removal for valvetrain access, and frankly I wouldn't have bought it if it did (not that it's any easier /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif !! At least the recommended interval is 32k mi.).

26k adjustment interval on my Yamaha TDM850. I really don't have to drop the front of the engine to do it but I think I will anyway and do a top end job, just for drill. I'll base the final decision on the valve clearances and a percent-leak test.

I'd think any hard-core Harley guy/gal may very likely feel the same.

Bob

If they were really hard-core (like the hog riders I know), then they shouldn't care all that much.

Dan


[/ QUOTE ]
 

bigcozy

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Just my opinion, but the average Harley rider doesn't worry about spending bucks on their bikes, they even brag about it. Most drop a couple of grand on accesories, which is why a dealership will have a couple of bikes and tons of bolt on chrome. On the other hand, I think the V-Rod and the Buells reach a different type of rider. My biggest gripe with HD has always been the belt drive. I have seen three snap, and you have to remove the entire swingarm to replace, very pricey from a labor standpoint. I haven't seen a drop in price local, but it doesn't have the same Harley feel, and most people want that so I don't see it out selling Softails. Like I said before, this is a glimpse at the future, HD is trying to move forward. The bike market is a fickle thing, if cruisers fall out of favor, they can't compete with Japanese and Italians in speed, price, or dependability. It is a good effort, and I am pretty critical of HD.

PercaDan, I have become a big Mazda fan. I traded my corvette off and got a 91 Miata as part of the deal. I wasn't going to keep it, but it turns out to be one of the best things I have ever owned. Not to mention I got just as this gas price thing hit. I really like it.
 

Moat

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[ QUOTE ]
bigcozy said:
My biggest gripe with HD has always been the belt drive. I have seen three snap...

[/ QUOTE ]

Bigcozy -

Hmmm... the belt is one of the features I've always ADMIRED about Harleys/Buells (until now?) - lighter, cheaper, cleaner, quieter, less mantenance, lasts longer than a chain (at least I thought so...?). A friends Electra Glide went over 140k mi. on his first belt - it eventually shed a few teeth and began skipping over the pulleys under load.

I just figured they were a great idea - maybe not so great...?

Care to shed a little more light on what you've seen? I'm curious...

Bob
 

bigcozy

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The first one I saw snap had many miles on it, and the guy lived on a dirt road. Odds are it got some pebbles up in it and that worked on it awhile. It was around 70K miles, so not bad. We were about five miles from his house when it came off, never heard or saw it. The second one I saw snap was on a FXR-P that had been hot rodded with a new S&S engine with something like 105hp. We were pulling out of a barbeque joint and he rolled it on until the back wheel had smoke rolling out of it, and then bang! I heard something hit the wall behind me and it was the belt laying there, smoking. Again, probably abuse and age. The third one was an Electra Glide Standard with less than 2000 miles on it. A long way from home and a new bike multiplies the frustration. We managed to get it home with some friends help (an Electra Glide is very hard bike to get in the back of pickup)and HD picked up the belt and labor under warranty.

Could this happen to a chain? You bet. But, all I need is an extra master link and I can fix it on the road. Get home, I buy a chain and it takes me about 20 minutes to put it on, adjust the tension and rear brake. On a HD the entire rear swingarm has to be removed, and that takes a loooong time to do which means big $ in labor costs. On one of those custom chopper shows the guys put the frame together, and then have to pull it apart again after forgetting to put the belt through. They make belt fixes for quick fixes beside the road problems, but I have heard pretty bad stories about them. Odds are, the belt will not fail as many times as a chain, probably far less, but the cost of replacement is shocking. I have a bike with a belt- a HD FXSTC that has had two belts on it, and a Honda VT1100C with a shaft that 126,000 miles on it, no issues.

I wouldn't be scared of a belt, but a shaft is pretty bullet proof. I would stay away from gravel, dirt roads, and hard throttle roll ons. Is that what you were asking for?
 

Moat

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[ QUOTE ]
bigcozy said:
Is that what you were asking for?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yea - and even more!! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif Thanks!

Out of the 15 or so bikes I've owned over the last 25 yrs, one was a shaftie ('83 Honda 650 Nighthawk - hydraulic valves, too - sweet little UJM) and I loved that feature, regardless of the handling/weight issues. But no shaft drives are currently offered in the type of bike I'm attracted to (smaller sport/adventure tourers - come to think of it, there's not much offered in the way of this style bike anyway... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif).

And chains - well, I just get tired of the mess and maintenance, especially on longer trips. And the 15 - 25k mi. chain/sprocket replacement intervals (YMMV). And since the advent of belts - it just doesn't seem necessary anymore. No biggie, it's just that since Harley (and Buell) have apparently been quite successful running belts for years - and more Japanese high-power cruisers are showing up with them - they can't be all bad.

I'd think a belt would be an easy and worthwhile addition to, say, a V-Strom, SV-650, TDM, VFR or Multistrada-type cycle. But there are probably some application-specific limitations to their use(I do know that rocks/gravel are hard on 'em, for instance - probably ruling out dual-sports).

I guess I'm just wishing (out loud...) that more manufacturers would start spreading their use across different models. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon23.gif Likely not too soon...

Thanks for the descriptions, Bigcozy! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif Gives me a better real-world perspective of belt durability.

Bob
 

NightStorm

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Don't forget that belts are wider than chains and will limit the width of the rear tire and therefore the number of choices in regards to width, profile, tread and manufacturer available to the rider. Belts also have limitations pertaining to the choice of final drive ratios due to the lack of available sprockets. These factors aside, I do think that belts have their place, particularly in regards to lower maintenance without the weight penalty of a shaft drive. Not that I mind the modern o-ring chain all that much, actually I'm pretty impressed with the durability in contrast to the roller chains of twenty or thirty years ago. My CB750-K4 Honda would go through a chain every 3,000 miles and my TDM 850 has over 20,000 miles on the original chain (but it and the sprockets are due for replacement)! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif However, if I had a bike that I would be doing 600-700 miles a day for days on end, I think I would opt for a drive system that I wouldn't have to lube first thing every morning. Its to bad that "Chain Wax" would solidify in a "Scott Oiler. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thinking.gif Maybe if I reduced it with WD-40....nah, probably eat the o-rings. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif Later.

Dan
 

bigcozy

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PercaDan makes a good point about limiting the size of the rear tire. I think you can order (mucho $$$) newer HD's with a larger swing arm to put larger tires in. Custom bikes have those monster swing arms that you can put car tires in.

Shafts have issues too, weight is one, cost is another. There is the dreaded "shaft lash" when you let off the throttle, and a chain actually is quicker off the line. BMW has always made shaft bikes, and they have been around a long time. My personal choice is a shaft, I hate working on stuff, that goes double for on the side of the road
 

ChrisA

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I changed my Kawa Vulcan Classic 800 to belt drive because of the low maintenance and had no problems with it so far. Hope it'll last a while and in the meantime I can enjoy the clean rear wheel /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

Chris
 

onelight

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The only belt drive I have had was on a 2000 sportster sport the way it was set up it was maybe 75-80hp & was ridden fairly hard but well maintained,the belt still looked like new when I sold it,it did not need adjustment after 10,000 miles That was my one and only Harley I was impressed with the belt. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
 
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