Is 1xAA size worth price?

I've been trying to decide for a while on the best AA clicky light for under $40, and my choices have narrowed down to the Fenix E21 or the Eagletac P100A2, both of which are 2xAA lights. I also looked at the 1xAA light selection, but most of them have been above my price range.

This has got me puzzled: I know that there's a certain amount of work that goes into developing a driver that works on 1xAA voltages, but why is the price so much higher when you're getting less "light" overall?

Depends on how you define worth and value. The operating cost for a AA light is less than CR123 equivalent. NiMH rechargeables are less expensive and easier to maintain than the LiIon counterparts. NiMH also lasts longer with 2000 charging cycles vs 500 cycles with Li-Ions. AAs lights do not require bulk purchasing to bring down the expense to a reasonable amount. You can buy a AA practically anywhere, the same place will charge an insane amount for CR123s.

The difference between the 240+ CR123x2 max and 200+ AAx2/3 max is not very noticeable in practice. Neither is the difference between the 180+ and 220+ of the older XP/XR-E emitters. I have several lights that go up to 220 and have been using 10lm and lower modes the most.

For pure thrower applications Li-Ions or dedicated HIDs are needed so AAs fall short here. But thats not really your question.

To answer your question: it does take more work to boost up the voltage to a good level and still maintain regulation. However, I question if the cost of operating Li-Ions/CR123 lights are worth the extra 40-80lms in real world applications.

red02 said:

But thats not really your question.

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Indeed it isn't.

I'm talking about why a light like the Fenix LD10, which is smaller, has less output, and has a slightly more complex driver, costs ~$15 more than a Fenix E21, which is brighter, larger, and has a simpler driver.

I've decided to focus on AA lights because of their availability. Yes, CR123 lights are smaller, but they're not the focus.

Looks like you answered your own question: its the more complicated and less efficient driver.

Fenix might also be banking on the fact that few mainstream consumers are comfortable using CR123s. Charging more for AAs-driven might allow them to get the most profit from the largest market.

red02 said:

Looks like you answered your own question: its the more complicated and less efficient driver.

Fenix might also be banking on the fact that few mainstream consumers are comfortable using CR123s. Charging more for AAs-driven might allow them to get the most profit from the largest market.

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It doesn't seem logical that the driver of a flashlight, which seems like the part that would be the easiest to produce, would cause so much of a price difference. Also, that wasn't necessarily my original question; what I'm asking is if it's worth it.

The CR123 lights they offer cost more, so I'm not sure how that fits in with your explanation.

There's also a certain amount of engineering and R&D that goes in to making things smaller.

It is to me for two main reasons:
1] The size of one AA lights makes them so easy to always have with me.
2] There are three great battery options for AA lights, and one great backup option.

1] The best light in the world, (which most flashaholics know doesn't exist -but if it did,) is worthless unless it's with you when you need it. The one aa size is easy to ALWAYS have with me.

2.1] Low self-discharge [LSD] rechargeables are GREAT for AA lights. They can deliver more power than alkalines, stay ready until you use them, have much better cold weather performance than alkalines, and after the initial purchase [which isn't that much higher than alkalines anyway] they cost almost nothing to run. The higher power of these cells allow lights to be very bright. I find a good single AA light can be as bright as I need it to be for most [85% or so] of my uses.

2.2] Lithium primaries: GREAT cold weather performance, very lightweight, and great flashlight performance in terms of voltage [usually voltage=brightness]. Getting easier to find and afford is just a bonus!

2.3] 14500 Li-Ion Rechargeables! WOW performance for lights that can handle them in a rechargeable.

2.backup] You can always find/buy/scavenge an alkaline if you need it.

If you need any more reasons, let me know, I'll be here.

aEx155 said:

I've been trying to decide for a while on the best AA clicky light for under $40, and my choices have narrowed down to the Fenix E21 or the Eagletac P100A2, both of which are 2xAA lights. I also looked at the 1xAA light selection, but most of them have been above my price range.

This has got me puzzled: I know that there's a certain amount of work that goes into developing a driver that works on 1xAA voltages, but why is the price so much higher when you're getting less "light" overall?

Click to expand...

You're getting less light because you are insisting on an insufficient power source. If you are insisting on that as your personal preference (due to small size or greater availability) there is a premium to pay.

It's easier to design a light with a more adequate power source.

ITP makes some 1xAA lights that are $40. I agree most of the nice compact lights are in the $60-$100 range. Most 1xAA, 2xAA and 1x123 are $60-$70 and most 2x123 are $70-$100. But there are some out there in the lower range that are still great lights. You just have to find them. I still prefer 123 lights myself, but do like the convenience of finding AAs anywhere. That's why I like my Dereelight C2Hs...can run on AA/NiMH/14500 or 123s.

The 1xAA size is very much worth it to me. LED_Thrift covered most of the reasons I like 1xAA size. One more reason I will throw in is that if you do need to find more fuel for your flashlight in an emergency, it's nice to only need a single battery of the most common size. I always picture Murphy raising his ugly head and allowing me to find only one AA if I need to feed a 2xAA light.

Yes. Smaller single AA lights are my ideal size for pocket carry, batteries are available everywhere, and even alkalines will work okay at the lower levels that I use my EDC lights on the most.

aEx155 said:

I've been trying to decide for a while on the best AA clicky light for under $40, and my choices have narrowed down to the Fenix E21 or the Eagletac P100A2, both of which are 2xAA lights. I also looked at the 1xAA light selection, but most of them have been above my price range.

This has got me puzzled: I know that there's a certain amount of work that goes into developing a driver that works on 1xAA voltages, but why is the price so much higher when you're getting less "light" overall?

Click to expand...

If I were you, I would add cca 15 more bucks and get something like D11 or similar for everyday...
In practice smaller electronic things that are close in performance with bigger things usually cost more... take small high end computers... same performance with smaller screen and you pay 20-30% more... In light manufacturing production maybe almost the same in cost but due to established "rule of the thumb" in electronic industry that high-end smaller stuff costs more, manufacturers are using it as an excuse...
After all, profit is why they are in the business anyway...
But then again... it takes extra effort/costs to improve efficiency...

aEx155 said:

I know that there's a certain amount of work that goes into developing a driver that works on 1xAA voltages, but why is the price so much higher when you're getting less "light" overall?

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You are perhaps comparing the Fenix E21, a 2xAA light where 'E' in the model number stands for 'entry level', to say the Fenix LD10 R4, a single AA light which currently represents state of the art for currently shipping lights when it comes to output and runtime off a single AA NiMH rechargeable or alkaline primary cell. (edit: I saw your clarification post only after writing this, guessed correctly!)

If that is indeed the comparison you are making, you'd be better off comparing the E21 to the LD20, both of which are 2xAA lights.

There are a number of differences between the E21 and the LD10/LD20. The E21 has simpler circuitry and for a 2xAA produces less output than the 2xAA LD20. The E21 uses a XP-E LED emitter instead of the XP-G found in the LD series. The LD20 offers more operating modes, where the E21 simply provides off, low and high.

No doubt the E21 was designed to fill a certain price point -- keep the light in the $30's USD, away from the LD series which is in the high $50's / low $60's USD.

The single AA LD10 has it's place. I prefer the single AA format for every day carry. It produces more than enough light for that purpose and for an amazing amount of time, all off a single AA in a light less than 4 inches long. For a simpler less expensive Fenix there is an E10, not generally available in North America but REI has them on sale from time to time (currently ~ 25.00, has been as low as 17 or 19 iirc). I don't think it fair hold up the E10 to the LD10 like we could compare the E21 to the LD20, because the E10 is such a different light -- Luxeon LED, 55 lumen output, off and on.

With the LD10 R4 and now the Zebralight SC51/H51 upping the ante when it comes to output and runtime, I'm hoping there's something of an AA driven light renaissance going on. Consumers will benefit.

aEx155 said:

My choices have narrowed down to the Fenix E21 or the Eagletac P100A2.

This has got me puzzled: I know that there's a certain amount of work that goes into developing a driver that works on 1xAA voltages, but why is the price so much higher when you're getting less "light" overall?

Click to expand...

If you have to choice between Eagletac and Fenix, i would strongly recommended Fenix over Eagletac ( worst flashlight i ever had ). See here my experience with Eagletac and Fenix.

As for 1 x AA, this is my story. Currently i just got Nitecore D11 ( works on Alkaline,Nimh dan Li-Ion 14500 ). It's put out 145 lumen on AA/Nimh and with li-ion 14500 it totally turn into different flasglight, it could produce arround 200+ lumen of floody beam.

I think that's why price is much higher because it's capable to turn into different light. Worth it or not, you might want to ask yourself for the answer.

aEx155 said:

I'm talking about why a light like the Fenix LD10, which is smaller, has less output, and has a slightly more complex driver, costs ~$15 more than a Fenix E21, which is brighter, larger, and has a simpler driver.

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You've pretty much answered your own question here...

Part of the difference is in the manufacturing quality and costs, and the costs for the different driver being used, and has already been mentioned, a newer emitter that produces more total output per unit of voltage.

And to say that you're getting "less" light is a mistake. Fenixes perform poorly with Li-ion 14500's (they loose regulation and basically become single mode lights driven at their max output) compared to other single AA form factor lights like a Quark. If you put a 14500 into a Quark AA, you'll get the same level of output as their 2xAA models; you sacrifice run time but you get other advantages as a result. So in short, you're not getting "less" light. A well designed and built 1xAA like a Quark gives you that increased functionality over a simpler 2xAA light like an E21.

Further, a lumens per dollar comparison is an over simplistic way of looking at it. As others here have indicated, the issue is functionality. The more expensive 1xAA lights offer greater convenience and functionality for a type of intended use. I wouldn't consider carrying a 2xAA light as an EDC tool; rather I use my 2xAA lights for camping, biking, night walks/hikes, etc. A different set of uses than what I use my 1xAA lights for.

Ultimately, you are the only one who can answer your "is it worth it" question. You can consider what we have to say, but it's up to you to make the decision. We're just trying to help you make a more informed decision so that the result of that decision will be greater utility and satisfaction.

Are you comparing apples to oranges? You could be comparing a higher end 1AA to a low end 2AA. There are only a few 2AA lights but a lot more 1AA lights discussed on CPF so it is easy to end up looking at premium 1AA vs basic 2AA.

When you compare the same light in 1AA and 2AA format the price difference is minimal. The 1AA is usually a little cheaper.

1AA - Fenix L1T V2.0 Q2 Black $48.50
2AA - Fenix L2T v2.0 Q2 Black $49.50

1AA - Fenix Digital LD10+ Black Premium R4 $58.95
2AA - Fenix Digital LD20+ Black Premium R4 $62.95

1AA - Quark AA, R5 Edition $57.00
2AA - Quark AA², R5 Edition $59.00

1AA - Quark AA Tactical, R5 Edition $57.00
2AA - Quark AA² Tactical, R5 Edition $59.00

1AA - Quark MiNi AA $39.00
2AA - Quark MiNi AA² $43.00

from Amazon
1AA - Fenix E10 $34.98
2AA - Fenix E20 $31.42
You have to compare a Fenix E20 to a Fenix E10 and not to a Fenix Digital LD10+ R4 at $58.95!!!

Take a look at the Streamlight PT 1AA: http://www.streamlight.com/product/product.aspx?pid=199

There are some online vendors that sell this light for under $40 (minus shipping), however, your local police/uniform supply store will usually sell this for around $45.

I've had one of these for a little over a month now and absolutely love it. It may not be as bright as some of the other listed lights, but IMHO, it's plenty bright for its size, and none of the other lights have as good a warranty as the PT.

I really like the Jetbeam E3S. It's heavy, being made of stainless steel, but it's as bright as any of my CR123-powered lights and it runs on a 1.5V AA battery. It has a "mechanical last-mode memory", which is to say you twist the head to select the brightness, so the driver is kept fairly simple. I think it's worth the $55 it costs, especially considering you'll never break a steel flashlight.

itp sa1 for 40$ it's incredibly bright on a aa battery and amazingly bright on 14500's...been very impressed thus far with it...

An interesting thread,I really really want to buy the Fenix PD20R because love the look of it,nice edc size and modes are all good for my use but and a big BUT it runs on 123 cells and in the UK even buying wisely they are still just to expensive so I will probably get the AA cell LD10 R4.,one of the best AA lights out there at the moment for a variety of uses that fits within my budget.