Do your best: Tempt me towards my first Li-ion light

I have been resisting Li-ion battery chemistry in my lights for quite some time now. However, every so often I have a moment of madness and start looking at Li-ion powered lights.

But then I look at my Eneloop battery box and I am reminded that Li-ion are higher maintenance than my friend the AA - which has so many uses around the house, making them extremely convenient.

But the quest for more throw and brightness is making me itch and I am thinking harshly about my next light.

These thoughts have grown stronger with investigating what really is the brightest 2/3 AA cell powered light. After some research and some very helpful people on this forum it looks like the winner is the Dereelight Javelin running 3xAA with the extension tube.

Hope red02 doesn't mind but I will quote something which then made me think it might be time to move on.

red02 said:

As AA throwers go the Javelin is top of its class, as a Li-Ion thrower its barely average.

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The Dereelight Javelin at the moment seems to be the best (cost wise) that 3 AA cells has to offer... and I think I want more maybe?..!

So what am I after? Something with considerable more throw and lumens than the Dereelight Javelin to justify the aches and pains of jumping battery chemistry.. and oh for around the $70 mark (batteries not included!)

A thrower with useful spill which has good regulation.

I don't mind lego-ing bodies and pills - open to all options.

Show me what you got! Can you make me jump chemistry ship?

It is worth mentioning that I'm not new to Li-ion batteries, my set of model RC aircraft use them.

I also went through this thought process recently. I was always against any 2xCR123 cell lights because of the cost of the cells. This prompted me to look for a light that would perform well on a singe 18650.

I chose the Eagletac T20C2MKII. I am really impressed. I also ordered the warm white and R2 light sources so have the best of all worlds!

Actually, the Dereelight Javelin is not the top of the class, not by a long shot. The Led Lenser P7 will beat that, and it's utilizes AAA's (4). I wont mention the P14 because that will obliterate any AA thrower (production, without aspherics and gimmicks).
Don't forget, the Javelin uses D26 drop ins, and there is only so much throw you can get from a P60 reflector.

I go through this thought process all the time, until I pop in or take out cells from my C9000 or look at the cell storage box.

But like the OP I must admit to being interested in a smallish light driven by a single 18650. I think a general purpose light rather than all flood or more throw - something that has bright spill with constant regulation to brightly light up the street 20-50 feet in front of my bike, ideally for more than an hour. Really ideally for 2 solid hours. Dreaming - for 3. Not too wide a beam, don't want to blind motorists. I find myself continuing to look at the Fenix TK12 output-runtime charts with some envy. Perhaps there's a Deerelight or Malkoff or some other such combo I should look at but the number of choices and lack of technical reviews make it more difficult so I go back to my happy set of NiMH rechargeables and lights, only to repeat the cycle in a few more weeks.

No doubt this cyclic envy is a key sign of flashaholism too.

(sorry, not trying to hijack your thread Trancersteve!)

Check out the XTAR A01 that lighthound has on sale for less than $40. It is plenty bright, throws great with plenty of spill, has long runtimes, AND has a built-in charger for the 18650 battery!

I bought one recently and I'm loving it. And don't let anyone say an XPG can't throw and has donut holes. Mine throws better than any of my lights and has a flawless beam, too.

Anybody else have this light?

Honestly, don't bother with a TK12 or T20C2 MKII - well the MKII is decent if you also get the XR-E dropin for throw (as mentioned). Neither are too much more impressive than a Javelin using 3xAA Enelopps (unless you add the XR-E dropin for more throw to the T20C2 MKII). They are brighter but not by much (I have them all).

As for the LED Lenser P7, I just measured mine at 8200 Lux @ 1m on turbo and my Javelin (XP-G) at 8100 lux @ 1m on high (using me cheap lux meter). While the throw of the P7 is the same as the Javelin, the Javelin is much brighter overall with much more spill - AND you can get an XR-E pill for the Javelin and it will have about 2000 more lux @ 1m.

If you want massive throw in a single 18650, get a Tiablo A10G. If you want decent throw with some spill, get a Maelstrom - both are available for about $100 (a little more than you asked for). My next choice would be the T20CII but you have to get the XR-E dropin. Beyond those, you graduate to 2x18650 lights.

Well Trancersteve,

You did ask to be tempted, so I think you owe it to us to let us know if we succeeded.

Did you bag your first "lion" yet?

tandem said:

I go through this thought process all the time, until I pop in or take out cells from my C9000 or look at the cell storage box.

(sorry, not trying to hijack your thread Trancersteve!)

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No need to be sorry, I think many flashaholics go through this same thought process.

tre said:

Honestly, don't bother with a TK12 or T20C2 MKII - well the MKII is decent if you also get the XR-E dropin for throw (as mentioned). Neither are too much more impressive than a Javelin using 3xAA Enelopps (unless you add the XR-E dropin for more throw to the T20C2 MKII). They are brighter but not by much (I have them all).

As for the LED Lenser P7, I just measured mine at 8200 Lux @ 1m on turbo and my Javelin (XP-G) at 8100 lux @ 1m on high (using me cheap lux meter). While the throw of the P7 is the same as the Javelin, the Javelin is much brighter overall with much more spill - AND you can get an XR-E pill for the Javelin and it will have about 2000 more lux @ 1m.

If you want massive throw in a single 18650, get a Tiablo A10G. If you want decent throw with some spill, get a Maelstrom - both are available for about $100 (a little more than you asked for). My next choice would be the T20CII but you have to get the XR-E dropin. Beyond those, you graduate to 2x18650 lights.

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Thanks for the lux readings tre, that Javelin is looking appealing.. is yours running 3xAA cells? Is the reflector OP or SMO? Dereelight now state the XP-G Javelin comes with a new SMO reflector.

bob4apple said:

Well Trancersteve,

You did ask to be tempted, so I think you owe it to us to let us know if we succeeded.

Did you bag your first "lion" yet?

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Thanks for the suggestions everyone

bob4apple that XTAR A01 looks very interesting and perhaps a great way to be introduced to Li-ions in a light! I am reading some more about it and am mulling it over! On the hunt for beamshots/outdoor beamshots


I have also been looking at the Solarforce Masterpiece Pro-1 combined with an L2 body and extension tube, looks very good for the price.

tandem said:

I think a general purpose light rather than all flood or more throw - something that has bright spill with constant regulation to brightly light up the street 20-50 feet in front of my bike, ideally for more than an hour. Really ideally for 2 solid hours. Dreaming - for 3.

(sorry, not trying to hijack your thread Trancersteve!)

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I use a Quark XPG NW head on one of their 18650 tubes. With an AW 18650-26 I get two full hours of run time on max, and more than 3 on high. I use a twofish bikeblock to mount it as a handlebar light. Nice floody beam that shows everything in front of my wheel.

B0wz3r said:

I use a Quark XPG NW head on one of their 18650 tubes. With an AW 18650-26 I get two full hours of run time on max, and more than 3 on high. I use a twofish bikeblock to mount it as a handlebar light. Nice floody beam that shows everything in front of my wheel.

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Thanks! Now there's an idea I've not yet contemplated, I keep forgetting about Quark lego. Any idea what sort of output through the front that combo gives you, or seen any outdoor beamshots of that combo? Interested!

Just trying to gauge applicability -- What sort of cycling do you do? Pretty hilly here. I tend to ride fast, but not blazingly so, usually 22 - 32kph, faster downhill. Out-riding the light is easy enough, but I don't want to go to bike-specific lighting solutions nor the DX flashlight route. I like a light that can run on "max" until a cell is spent without undue heating.

This light would mostly be used for road riding in everything from urban areas to unlit highway riding miles from any town. I could be convinced to put two of them on my drop bars if necessary to handle a 40 - 60km/h descent. I have aspirations of doing some longer brevet rides (a 600km or longer) next year so will have lots of lengthy night riding to look forward to. That said I'd be happy to get a brighter 2+ hour solution for every day commuting and training.

It isn't a throwy light by any means, but if you need just ONE reason to get into li-ion, it's a Malkoff MD2.

I started with the RCR123's for a couple of smaller lights I had and was pondering the 18650 thing for a couple of months and then there was an Elektrolumens DeCree in the marketplace for $60 so I grabbed it.

I thought my 200ish lumen single 123 lights were impressive. This thing just kills them. It has replaced a SSC-P7 bike light it's so damned good.

I've got a couple of AA Quarks that do everything I want them to, so it's going to take a rather impressive light to woo me back to the AA format in a hurry.

The size, feel in your hand and single cell simplicity of an 18650 is just about as good as it gets for day to day lighting.

You don't have to baby the cells either, just learn what needs to be done and do it. It's easy and the benefits outweigh any disadvantages.

The thread starter is looking for more throw, I'm not. A throwy light would be wasted as a bike light. Trying not to totally hijack this thread but...oh...so... difficult. The OP and I do share this "tempt me from AA" aspect however.

I thought my 200ish lumen single 123 lights were impressive. This thing just kills them. It has replaced a SSC-P7 bike light it's so damned good.

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When you say "this thing" are you referring to the Malkoff MD2 or the EL Decree? And which ever it is, could you see running it for 2 hours on max, on a regular basis?

Trancersteve said:

Thanks for the lux readings tre, that Javelin is looking appealing.. is yours running 3xAA cells? Is the reflector OP or SMO? Dereelight now state the XP-G Javelin comes with a new SMO reflector.

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Mine is a 3xAA xp-g with an op reflector.

tandem said:

Thanks! Now there's an idea I've not yet contemplated, I keep forgetting about Quark lego. Any idea what sort of output through the front that combo gives you, or seen any outdoor beamshots of that combo? Interested!

Just trying to gauge applicability -- What sort of cycling do you do? Pretty hilly here. I tend to ride fast, but not blazingly so, usually 22 - 32kph, faster downhill. Out-riding the light is easy enough, but I don't want to go to bike-specific lighting solutions nor the DX flashlight route. I like a light that can run on "max" until a cell is spent without undue heating.

This light would mostly be used for road riding in everything from urban areas to unlit highway riding miles from any town. I could be convinced to put two of them on my drop bars if necessary to handle a 40 - 60km/h descent. I have aspirations of doing some longer brevet rides (a 600km or longer) next year so will have lots of lengthy night riding to look forward to. That said I'd be happy to get a brighter 2+ hour solution for every day commuting and training.

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95% of all my riding is for commuting and running errands. I'm not a racer by any means; my ave. speed on flat ground is only about 16 mph/25 kph. The Quark XPG nw head I have is VERY floody; not set up to take beam shots so I'm not sure how to describe it. The hotspot is very large with no really clear edge to it; rather it kinds of melts off into the spill area very quickly. From what I know from the specs on 4Sevens website, it puts out about 200 lumens OTF on max. The one I have though is noticeably greenish in tint which puts me off some.

My XPE Q3/5A head puts out probably about 170 lumens on max. They were all out of the .9 - 4.2v capable heads in the Q3/5A so I bought one of the 3 - 9v heads; it works just as well, same amount of output, but I can only run it on li-ion cells so it doesn't have the same versatility.

Also, keep in mind that I'm a fairly casual rider; I don't do much in the way of long rides anymore, I don't race, or anything like that. So, the set up I describe here works well for my use. For faster riding and for riding for longer times at night you might want to look into a MagicShine light. I plan on getting one at some point in the next couple months.

With regards to the question asked by the OP, I'd strongly suggest a Quark as your first fully li-ion capable light. They really are great with li-ion cells.

Ha! It won't take long before you've bought one or two or three or..

The flesh is weak my friend and so is the mind..

tre said:

Honestly, don't bother with a TK12 or T20C2 MKII - well the MKII is decent if you also get the XR-E dropin for throw (as mentioned). Neither are too much more impressive than a Javelin using 3xAA Enelopps (unless you add the XR-E dropin for more throw to the T20C2 MKII). They are brighter but not by much (I have them all).

As for the LED Lenser P7, I just measured mine at 8200 Lux @ 1m on turbo and my Javelin (XP-G) at 8100 lux @ 1m on high (using me cheap lux meter). While the throw of the P7 is the same as the Javelin, the Javelin is much brighter overall with much more spill - AND you can get an XR-E pill for the Javelin and it will have about 2000 more lux @ 1m.

If you want massive throw in a single 18650, get a Tiablo A10G. If you want decent throw with some spill, get a Maelstrom - both are available for about $100 (a little more than you asked for). My next choice would be the T20CII but you have to get the XR-E dropin. Beyond those, you graduate to 2x18650 lights.

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Since according to some threads the P14 tops out at 20k lux it would out throw the Maelstrom and be in the same league as the DBS, which is slightly behind the A10.

The Maelstrom is an CR123 light, which happens to take 18650s as I understand. I have also been looking for a compelling reason to switch to Li-Ions, or atleast CR123s, but none of the mentioned throwers impress me much execpt the P14.

How well is the P14 regulated? Is it durable? How much 5m lux does it have?

I seen a test on a P7 which had 11,000 lux, and another here on CPF with just under 14000 lux. It's highly doubtful that a D26 drop in with a reflector will out throw an optic combined with a bigger head.
Lux numbers will vary from tester to tester.

SureAddicted said:

I seen a test on a P7 which had 11,000 lux, and another here on CPF with just under 14000 lux. It's highly doubtful that a D26 drop in with a reflector will out throw an optic combined with a bigger head.
Lux numbers will vary from tester to tester.

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Your welcome to doubt but the numbers don't lie. Here is another test done on the P7 where he got 8500 lux @ 1m (almost exactly what I get). https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/238619

red02 said:

Since according to some threads the P14 tops out at 20k lux it would out throw the Maelstrom and be in the same league as the DBS, which is slightly behind the A10.

The Maelstrom is an CR123 light, which happens to take 18650s as I understand. I have also been looking for a compelling reason to switch to Li-Ions, or atleast CR123s, but none of the mentioned throwers impress me much execpt the P14.

How well is the P14 regulated? Is it durable? How much 5m lux does it have?

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The Maelstrom can run cr123a or 18650. It has the same throw and brightness on both but longer run times on an 18650.

I don't own a P14. I do know that it does not have any regulation. I was always put off by the P14 because of the MASSIVE size of the light (a little bigger than a Mag light 2D). This is really what Lithium batteries get you - less size. That is the appeal of lithium batteries for me. I can have a 4 to 8AA light or a single 18650 with the same brightness. Of course the 18650 light is smaller and lighter. I can have a single cr123a light or a 2xAA light with the same brightness - again, for some tasks, like the smaller size and lighter weight. I do like AA for their lower prices and availability so I like to own both types. I carry a Zebralight SC30 or Quark 123 daily but I use a Zebralight SC50 around the house at night because I don't need the extra brightness (though the SC60 is amazing). I mostly use a Maelstrom or M3C4 (triple XR-E) outside where I don't much care about size and have a VaraPower2000 on the way. I use a T20C2 w/ XR-E drop-in for walking because of the size and weight of the light. I use a SSC P7 light for plowing the driveway at night in the winter because of the flood and light weight on lithiums. I use the Javelin here and there and have many other lights that I use from time to time. The bottom line is that Lithium is just another type of light in your collection that has its plance and uses just like AA lights do. Don't expect a miracle just because you go to lithium batteries. Do expact smaller lights and less weight. That is about it. It's just another tool in you tool chest.

tre said:

Your welcome to doubt but the numbers don't lie. Here is another test done on the P7 where he got 8500 lux @ 1m (almost exactly what I get). https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/238619

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I don't think you read my previous post. There's also another review on cpf, with this review the lux number is just under 14,000, so which is more accurate...everyone would argue their figures are accurate.

https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/215039

Going by your figures, 8,500 lux for the P7, 20,000 lux for the P14...erm I really don't think so. The difference wont be that big between the two.