OMG love this stuff!!

First off... let me say hello! My name is Chris and I am about 2 days into my new hobby, namely LED lights. I am a mechanical engineer that manages to get infatuated with hobbies quite rapidly so excuse the enthusiasm!

Yesterday ago I found myself browsing the isles at Target and stumbled across the flashlight isle. They had a couple 1 watt to 140 lumen LED flash lights laying around. I didn't expect much out of them and pointed one directly into my face prior to hitting the power button. Suffice to say, I was seeing stars for the rest of the day. I was HOOKED!

Later that night, being an avid ebay shopper and all, I started browsing for LED flashlights for my upcoming birthday. I found some (supposedly) 1 watt LED flashlights being sold for $1.50-3.00 shipped! "OMG soooo cheap" I thought, and almost hit "Buy It Now" on all of them!

I then looked a little deeper into LEDs and found youtube video clips of SST-90 Emitters in hand held flash lights and was BLOWN away to say the least! 2200 lumens??? I can't even imagine how bright that is... eitherway... I WANT IT. Problem is, I am not ready to fork out $450 on an Olight flashlight when I have only been in this hobby 1 whole day..

My questions are:

1. Is there a cheap Ebay LED flashlight I can purchase now, enjoy for a week or so, and then upgrade the emitter/driver (and w/e else you need, lol i am clueless) to a SST-90 emitter and shoot 1000-2000 lumens from it? I realize there are heat issues, and battery longevity issues... but has anyone tried this?

2. How legitimate are the wattage claims on Ebay LED flashlights?

3. I have heard some mention of brass plugs... are these heatsinks that come with emitters? Is the star configuration pretty standard and swappable into any housing? How do these things go together, both physically and electrically? Anyone point me towards a FAQ?

4. If i am willing to shell out just shy of $100 on an LED flashlight, whats the best/most powerful option for me? I don't need titanium or anything fancy like that. Function over form..

Thanks guys!

Excited to be a continued member of these forums!

-Chris

Welcome!

1. You will be much better off getting high-quality lights, rather than the cheap Ebay stuff. Check out the flashlight modding section.

http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/forumdisplay.php?f=17

2. Don't trust anything on Ebay, and don't trust lumen ratings that aren't ANSI FL1. The ANSI FL1 specifications will give you OTF (out the front) lumens, which are a lot more realistic than the emitter lumens that many publish.

http://www.energizerlightingproducts.com/technology/ansistandard/Pages/environmentals.aspx

4. What do you mean by "best/most powerful option"? Quality plays a huge role in flashlights, and some prefer performance, and others prefer quality. I am of the latter, and SureFire and Maglite is what I own. SureFire quality is the best, but it's horrible value dollars-wise, and Maglite is much more economical. Personally, I stay as far away from Made in China as possible.

first off, welcome to candlepower forums and the wonderful wold of flashlights!

two suggestions:

first, read read read. everything you ever wanted to know is on these boards, do a little research before laying down your cash.

second, check out candlepowerforums marketplace. there are many good deals to be had there.

:welcome:

Forget the ebay rubbish. Buy quality, buy once, buy real lumens rather than overoptimistic numbers.

Surefire has some pretty awesome stuff.

Welcome to CPF.

:welcome:
From what you wrote i suugest you take a look on the p60 system.
You buy a p60 host(beasically the hole flashligth without the LED and the electronics(driver)) and a p60 dropin (the LED and the electronics).
The dropins can be swapped by hand within 20 seconds, just perfect for having fun trying new emitters, switches etc.
You can also play p60-Lego as nearly all parts are interchangeable:
https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/228693

P60 hosts start dirt cheap for about $5 in a bundle with a dropin.
However, don´t go the cheap way.
You´ll end up buying a quality host/dropin anyway .

If you want to start cheap anyway, at least get a Solarforce l2p. For the price its a very good flashlight and you will have much fun with it.

Surefires cost a lot more, but have extremly high qualitiy and LIFETIME warranty. Surefire 6p and Surefirce C2 a excellent hosts.
For a SST-90 you´ll need a mcclicky tailswitch anyway. This switch is not (yet?) available for other p60 hosts.

The same goes for dropins and batterys.
Don´t get the cheapest dropins but look for dropins from malkoff, nailbender, moodoo, thrunite, deereelight...
Batterys: AW or at least the black flammed trustfires from DX.

Surefire are great, you can buy there clones that are called Solarforce, a buy it now and upgrade as you see fit kind of light. The Solarforce L2M is great because of the battery switching options. One or 2 cr123 or an 18650 rechargeable fits. Alot of modders have built the bulbs that fit in these,
There called P60 bulbs, and you can get different colors, UV type, incandescent or superbright 1100 lumen dropins.
Maglites are great for dropins too, lots of space for bulb and battery options. A 2D Maglite is a good start. There's a 6 AA holder that fits into it for the big current bulbs.
I am thankful for finding CPF, it's a great resource and I finally feel like I'm not strange.
:welcome:

Welcome to the forum. If this is truly a new hobby of yours and not just a passing interest, then take your time and do some reading. Just about everything that can be done with led flashlights is being done on this site. There is so much information here that goes back years. It could take you several weeks of reading here before you figure what is the best use of your $100. You will quickly find out that you did not shine yourself in the face with a 140 lumen 1 watt led. More like < 25. Buy from a reputable company and then compare what 140 lumens really looks like. You are better off buying a 40 lumen surefire for $100 than that 140 lumen target lite for $10. The surefire will be brighter. Have fun and let us know what you do.

DJack said:

There is so much information here that goes back years. It could take you several weeks of reading here before you figure what is the best use of your $100.

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He's right.....

Me, I've been reading for six years and I still haven't figured it all out....

odd said:

Surefires cost a lot more, but have extremly high qualitiy and LIFETIME warranty. Surefire 6p and Surefirce C2 a excellent hosts. For a SST-90 you´ll need a mcclicky tailswitch anyway. This switch is not (yet?) available for other p60 hosts.

Click to expand...

I'm fully appreciative of quality - but would never use SureFire's lifetime warranty to sell anyone on buying into the P60 way of life, particularly if the prospective user who is likely to head down the high performance road of Malkoff, Nailbender, Moddoo, countless other MCE and SST-90 and who knows what other drop ins.

Why? Chances are the user is going to, one day or another, do one or more of the following:

- replace the stock drop in with a custom one (almost certainly), so the warranty on that component becomes meaningless
- upgrade their tail cap with a custom part, voiding the warranty on that piece
- have their body bored out for 18650 lithium ion cells, voiding the warranty on the body; will SureFire even talk to you about a warranty thread issue if your body is bored? Dunno. Tend to doubt it though.
- often replace the stock bezel ring and lens

What do you have left that is stock and possibly still under warranty? The head (bezel), basically.

If cash strapped and the P60 drop in availability excites you and you can't wait long enough to save up for a used SureFire body, probably starting out with a L2P is a good plan of attack. On the non-field upgradable side if you want a cheap and cheerful but still very bright quality integrated pocket light there are tons to choose from various makers like 4Sevens and Fenix and Jetbeam and ...

Starting out used is a great option in either case - check out CPF Marketplace for tons of deals from the local community.

Hey caall99 welcome to CPF! Take your time, breathe deeply, slow down, do lots of reading - there's a ton of options out there for you to choose from so do a little more digging and surely you'll find a light or approach that works just great for you now. No doubt you'll be back for more once you learn a little more about the likes and dislikes you have for your first light.

My questions are:

1. Is there a cheap Ebay LED flashlight I can purchase now, enjoy for a week or so, and then upgrade the emitter/driver (and w/e else you need, lol i am clueless) to a SST-90 emitter and shoot 1000-2000 lumens from it? I realize there are heat issues, and battery longevity issues... but has anyone tried this?

Ist Rule: Dont buy ebay flashlights. The SR-90 is awesome, but at 1400 real OTF lumens (1200 OTF at 3min) yes the actual lumens you see and the emitter are different. :thumbsdow The smaller SR-91 makes the same Out the front lumens (OTF). The VARAPower2000 makes 2000 OTF and if you order with no dome and copper it makes nearly identical throw as the big SR90, but at half the price and nearly 800 or more real OTF lumens.

2. How legitimate are the wattage claims on Ebay LED flashlights?

I think any cheap flashlight can get the watts, but thats just a small % of what it takes to make real lumens your eyes will actually see. What If somebody said you want this 15watt light or this 40 watt light? Then later you learn the 15watt is way brighter. Alot of info to learn on this too.

3. I have heard some mention of brass plugs... are these heatsinks that come with emitters? Is the star configuration pretty standard and swappable into any housing? How do these things go together, both physically and electrically? Anyone point me towards a FAQ?

Currently; if you really want something awesome and honest go with Malkoff, 4 Sevens, or Surefire. Then if you understand the safety constraints with certain cells/batteries then upgrade to custom copper heatsink lights. Once you go copper you never look at brass or aluminum.

4. If i am willing to shell out just shy of $100 on an LED flashlight, whats the best/most powerful option for me? I don't need titanium or anything fancy like that. Function over form..

You need to tell us the size, UI, batteries, flood, throw, ect... what are you looking for?

Thanks guys!

Excited to be a continued member of these forums!



Chris welcome:twothumbs

Wow, you guys are awesome. So much good info here. I do indeed have a lot to read before I can make an informed decision. Usually the biggest hurdle for me is the lack of a glossary.

From your responses I can see that Maglites are often used as "hosts", their guts are spilled and then replaced with something more powerful. If i can get close to the 2200 lumen range with a 2D or 3D host for under $100 then I would totally go for it. Are the ebay flashlights trash even as "hosts"?

The varapower2000 light looks great, but a tad too expensive, and I would rather apply SOME DIY to stay under $100. (not saying it is overpriced, but again this is my first REAL flashlight)

SR-90 is $450 or so, am i right? That's way out of my league thus far (cost wise).

Are Malkoff, Nailbender, Moddoo etc... peoples handles on this forum? brand of emitter drop ins? kinda confused here.

P60 is a standard flashlight size or a specific manufactures model?

I really am aiming to own two flash lights. One of the them being a smaller pocket sized flashlight about 5 inches long tops and .75-1 inch diameter, while the other one can be similar in size to the Olight SR90.

HID also fascinates me, but i am not planning on using a briefcase sized light very often. A smaller hand held HID flashlight??

I guess i would really love to get pushed down the DIY path, but would like to avoid machining tasks. Drop ins sound great and soldering is no problem. My mechanical skills are good, but i do not have resources or access to expensive tooling.

Looking for a sub $100 light with highest OTF lumen output in both the Olight SR90 form factor and the pocket form factor. If it involves DIY, i am all for it.

Thanks for the help.

Right on

The P60 is the bulb, reflector, driver and spring already assembled. Surefire came up with it, and lots have people and companies have jumped on board.
Malkoff , look up Malkoff.com or google malkoff devices. There's his site.
Moddo sells his stuff on OverReady.com
And Nailbender is in the custom modified buy,sell or trade section of CPF.

I like the p60 dropins as I'm not confident with soldering. Surefire, Solarforce, ultrafire and many others are hosts for P60 bulb assemblies.

Hope that helps some

But P60 is on the larger end of what I am looking for correct? At least when considering my pocket bound everyday light...

If I wanted something sized like the SST-50 MG P-Rocket, same emitter (or SST-90) with a better driver where should I look? Is there an "el-cheapo" host housing I can buy and then get a SST drop in for it? I am leaning my focus on primarily throw and little spill.

I think my preference is obvious by now: Extreme throw on the order of 1000 lumens+, in the smallest package possible. I don't care how rare the batteries driving it are. I don't like alkalines anyway . A click button would be fantastic, with at least 3 power modes.

Who can fill my shopping list?

Thanks again so much!

Are the ebay flashlights trash even as "hosts"?

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Solarforce flashlight bodies (Hosts) can be bought on ebay, but you will have a much better experience if you do business within the CPF community (Such as Lighthound). The merchants that belong to/ are known by CPF have good reputations that have been earned through countless transactions. More often than not they will bend over backwards to make sure you are satisfied with your purchases.

Anyone point me towards a FAQ?

Click to expand...

Check out "The Welcome Mat"
https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/277224
Also, each forum (ie LED Flashlights, Incandescent Flashlights, etc.) has "Threads of interest" that pertain to that particular forum, at the top of the page. These links will send you off into a wonderland of luminous splendor and information that will answer all your questions. For every question answered, though, four more will be created! Happy hunting!

But P60 is on the larger end of what I am looking for correct? At least when considering my pocket bound everyday light...

You need a P60 hosts, which can cost from $12~well over $200 dollars.

If I wanted something sized like the SST-50 MG P-Rocket, same emitter (or SST-90) with a better driver where should I look? Is there an "el-cheapo" host housing I can buy and then get a SST drop in for it? I am leaning my focus on primarily throw and little spill.

An SST-50 with extreme throw will require a big reflector and your 5in light will quickly be at least double that size now. If you want throw (for most here at least 25~35k lux) the easiest thing is to get a 2D LED Mag and build an SST-50 into it. Off 3 NiMH C cells you should get 1000 real OTF lumens and 30k plus lux and well over 55k lux if you de-dome it.

I think my preference is obvious by now: Extreme throw on the order of 1000 lumens+, in the smallest package possible. I don't care how rare the batteries driving it are. I don't like alkalines anyway . A click button would be fantastic, with at least 3 power modes.

Throw is measured in lux here. Usually if it has alot of lux like 20k or more the reflector will be big. You can get already made SST-50 thrower lights that should impress you and will have a decent price at:
http://www.shiningbeam.com/servlet/the-125/MG-X-dsh-Thrower-SST-dsh-50-Premium/Detail

But remember when you say 1000 lumens its only possible with custom handmade lights, well at least those SST-50 types. You need well made generous heatsinks, quality electronics, high bin SST-50 bins, and honestly I have only seen these attributes on handmade/custom builds. Not even Olight, Dereelight, or other big names use all these things.

The only light that will give you the best bang for your buck is the VARA1000, which is the SSR-50 version. Its a 2D Mag with custom Machined Copper heatsink (ask for copper, when you order).

You can also try PM Nailbender and ask him for a SSR-50 type of build.


bigC

ElectroLumens in the CPF Marketplace has done some great work with Maglite sized lights.
The EDC-MCE he makes has 700 lumens and is directdrive, one mode. $130 I think.
Most P60 hosts are 5inch or more but you could use
A Surefire L2M without the extention and drop it to 4 1/4 inches instead of 5 5/8 inches. You'd nere to use a rechargeable Cr123 to run the higher output P60's like the P7, MC-E, sst-50, sst-90 and your runtime would be really short.
Saberwolf in the custom section made a really powerful pocket sized light, not sure when his next run is.

P60 is the surefire drop-in. "p60 host" is a general name given to lights that can accept the p60 drop-in. I personally like this route cause it gives me the the most options and easiest way to modify my light.

HDS clicky is highly recommended for pocket light or EDC. my High CRI clicky goes with me everywhere, even the beach at high noon.:naughty:

my nailbender SST-90 drop-in an Oveready modded Surefire C2 host. its not a thrower. but puts out a bright wall of light! generates heat well enough too. its my primary work light.



surefire P60L- nailbender SST-50 module - surefire G2Z- oveready C2- 18650 size li-ion - cr123a battery.


surefire P60L - nailbender sst50- nailbender sst-90 - c2 bezel- c2 body


Surefire E-series lights also have many options for modding.

a solarforce L2P host can be purchased for about $20. it will readily accept 18650 li-ion. (surefires cannot, unless you bore them out) solarforce also has many option parts and accessories, such as extenders, different tailcaps, bezels and such.

only way to achieve 1000+ OTF lumens (i could be wrong) is with a SST-90 emitter with plenty of juice behind it. or having multiply LEDs. HID would be easier to achieve that. check out Tactical HID, Microfire, wolf's eye for smaller flashlight-type HID lights. there are more makers, just cant remember now. need my coffee!
when i first started with quality lights, lumens were an important selling factor to me. now, i care more about build quality, beam quality, tint, and makers customer service. there is a thing as "too much light". LOL

caall99 said:

But P60 is on the larger end of what I am looking for correct? At least when considering my pocket bound everyday light...

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Generally speaking, yes. Sure, you can find some cool small P60 host concoctions out there, but generally speaking, your average run of the mill P60 capable light is going to be somewhat bigger in both length and diameter than say a single AA powered light.

For example one light often copied by other makers is the SureFire 6P. It measures 5.2 inches in length and is 1.25 inches in diameter at its widest point - the bezel in which the P60 sits. If you've got big hands it'll fit in it along the length. Maybe it will feel ok in your pocket, maybe it won't, that's a personal thing. But a light that size is starting to get to the point where more people might want to carry it in a holster than in a pocket... again a very personal decision.

An AA sized light can be much smaller and narrower. Just as examples, not recommendations, the popular Quark MiNi is only 3 inches in length and 0.70 inches in diameter along its entire length. It probably is significantly more powerful than the Target light you saw and is also likely to be much much smaller. Most single AA lights capable of putting out between 130 - 200 lumen output are going to be 4 inches or less in length and less than an inch in diameter. Some have pocket clips and other features that you may really come to appreciate in a light you carry every day.

I am leaning my focus on primarily throw and little spill.

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Maybe you might consider stepping back a little. Throwers like the Dereelight Javelin certainliy have a following here - powered by 2xAA it'll probably blow your mind. Bear in mind that almost any light you saw in Target with a lumen output rating was way over-rated for what it actually puts out the front, so you are going to see even better performance even without going to the max end of the pocket light continuum.

I think my preference is obvious by now: Extreme throw on the order of 1000 lumens+

Click to expand...

No doubt someone else will say this too - throw and lumen output are not the same thing. Search CPF, lots of discussions on terminology that can help. Regarding recommendations in your budget, maybe the recent thread Farthest THROWER for the price of $50 $100 and $150 might be of help.

I don't care how rare the batteries driving it are. I don't like alkalines anyway .

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You do need to care and take care. Rare sometimes means less safe. Less safe doesn't mean unusable but does mean you need to know how to use them safely.

Most of us don't like alkaline cells but that doesn't mean that common cell formats like AA or AAA in NiMH rechargeable chemistry aren't useful. You'll find that most flashlights that take AA or AAA cells these days in fact run *far* better on NiMH rechargeable cells than on alkaline cells. If you intend to use your light a lot, NiMH rechargeables like the Sanyo Eneloop and cells like those are a) very reliable, b) deliver tremendous performance for the price and c) are intrinsically quite safe where other chemistries like certain lithium ion combinations are not intrinsically safe and need to be cared for properly to avoid your flashlight, or you, or your house from going poof!

Another thing to consider is that any light with *really* massive output is going to heat up, a lot, and small lights aren't necessarily the best at dissipation of heat. If you only intend to light your massive output barn burner for 10 seconds to impress friends, then heat may not matter much. If you hope to buy a first light for good general purpose use, and a lot of use, then maybe a "1000" lumen light isn't the right target to be aiming at, at least not for a first good light.

Yet another thing to consider when first buying, especially when someone is keen to buy in a hurry, is you do not yet know what you don't know. There are myriad issues to consider - ranging from the mundane "will all the various pieces fit together" - to cost - to safety - to plain ol' practicality.

Leaving on a safety note: Lights that can push out huge output tend to need big power inputs and safely handling that power (and recharging it if going that route) requires a little knowledge. No one wants to see someone burn down their house due to enthusiasm.

again thanks for the great info. Been researching ALL DAY! lol. So, i have somewhat concluded that going for a light "thrower" is going to result in something larger than i was planning on, and more than likely HID. Several HID ebay options for $100. Don't worry, i am not going to pull the trigger on ebay quite yet... too much good knowledge here pointing me another direction.

Back to a mid size LED light with a balance between throw and flood.

I am leaning towards the solarforce l2 host from lighthound, but was hoping for a higher lumen drop-in than what lighthound currently offers. is solarforce l2 p60 format? or is that format only surefire lights? is the surefire c2 and solarforce l2 in the same size class? i am somewhat hooked to the idea of running an sst-50 or 90 just for shear power. anyway i can get a drop in for the solarforce host running one of those emitters between 1000-2000 lumens (maybe over optimistic). MAG 2D and up is a little too large, trying to get sst-50 or 90 into something smaller, with HIGH lumen output. willing to sacrifice some EDC capability for brute power... somewhat reasonable battery life and no major heat issues.

i may be talking in circles here, or spewing a lot of wishful thinking for which we do not have the technology yet, but question is, can i get close?

thanks for all the help!!!