Z
z_Kash21
Guest
I have to design a flashlight as part of my project for hikers/campers but am not sure how many lumens to aim for, how many do you guys typically use/prefer?
Thanks for your help! kash
Thanks for your help! kash
Help Support Candle Power Flashlight Forum
Army guys get to go camping a lot and for several decades many used the TL-122 series or MX-99\U or MX-991\U lights. As near as I can tell all of them output about 10 lumens which is bright enough to read by but low enough to keep some night vision.
Since I use an MX-991\U for camping the answer is 10 lumens.
Since I use an MX-991\U for camping the answer is 10 lumens.
StarHalo
Flashaholic
The majority of experienced flashaholics use around 10-20 lumens for general hiking/outdoor use, but this would ideally be in a multi-mode light that has a very low low (1 lumen or less) and a very high high as well (200 lumens or more).
And that MX-991/U is seriously old school, I'd recommend one of the Nite-Ize Maglite drop-ins for it (they both use the same bulb format) if you were severly attached to it, but otherwise there's a whole world of modern lights out there that supersede it in every way.
And that MX-991/U is seriously old school, I'd recommend one of the Nite-Ize Maglite drop-ins for it (they both use the same bulb format) if you were severly attached to it, but otherwise there's a whole world of modern lights out there that supersede it in every way.
vali
Enlightened
I think a current-regulated Mini AA with a big boost at Max would be great. Low to use inside the tent or very dark places (under trees with no moon), medium for most of the tasks (about 20-30 lumens for 8-10 hours) and a real high to spot the scary noises. Simple to use if you get rid of disco modes, twisty to improve reliability, small and works on AA AND AAA batteries.
Don't forget to use a neutral white led
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Don't forget to use a neutral white led
.bodhran
Enlightened
Depending on the area you are hiking, I would think you might need anything from a couple lumens to something in the hundreds. As for camping I agree that 20-30 lumens is fine. I only use a warm tint light when I'm camping. The warm tint is easier on the eyes and creates a more relaxing evironment for me and I don't feel as if I'm impossing on other campers like I would with a cool white. I'm about to head out myself for a week long camping trip and will be taking a Quark mini CR2 warm white, HDS HCRI, and a Malkoff XP-G HCRI.
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Even though I have purchased a new light about once a month for the past 40 years I have not found them the least bit addictive and I am certainly not a "flashaholic". Those that are should seek treatment.
The question was how many lumens I use for camping and the answer is 10.
I have 20 or 30 LED lights and they are okay for most things and two of my lights have the Nite-Ize drop ins. One is the little triple lamp for the AA and the other is that wide-voltage-range PR base unit. They both work well but I still prefer the MX-991\U as my personal camping light because it is reliable, runs a long time, and the light is easy on my eyes.
My wife, however, prefers the Hi-Gain 500 to her MX-991\U because it is easier for her to switch on. The 500 uses a K-13 lamp at 6 volts which I guess would put out about 35 lumens or so with fresh cells. The D cell Hi-Gains are getting a little hard to find so I did not mention it before.
One thing about the "old school" is that things generally worked well and for a long time. My Coleman 425 camp stove is definitely "old school" and yet I would not go camping without it.
coyote
Flashlight Enthusiast
for 25 years i've lived in the wilderness and off-the-grid. for most tasks i find 1-3 lumens perfect. i find 10 lumens too much for most chores. but it is nice to have 30-150 lumens available for illuminating something at a great distance, or for daylight tasks like checking under the hood in some dark corner.
B0wz3r
Flashlight Enthusiast
I was at an astronomy event last night with my wife. I used my Photon Freedom Micro NVG with the covert nose most of the time around the observing area, usually to a very low setting, well less than one lumen. When hiking back and forth to our campsite from the observing site, the L1 mode (4.5L) on my SC50w+ was plenty of light for hiking on the roads and paths around the park area where the event was.
StarHalo
Flashaholic
I agree entirely, the military anglehead flashlight was the best a Vietnam-era soldier could get.
Ah, then let me give you a brief indoctrination; here's a runtime chart for a PR bulb in direct drive with some D cells, like the anglehead:
The reason it's so easy on your eyes is because of how poorly it's performing; the bulb just relies on the sag of the cells to slowly decline for the entirety of its runtime, averaging roughly a quarter of the brightness of when you first installed the batteries. Add to this the physical complexity of the light, multiple junctions that must be waterproofed and multiple electrical contacts that must be maintained, and the reliable old anglehead doesn't seem so simple anymore. And of course the weak point is always the bulb, which has a very finite lifespan and will not always survive a drop.
Compare this with a current inexpensive flashaholic light, the Quark MiniAA, $40; it uses regulation so that output is always constant - the 25 lumens you start with in medium mode, after six hours is 25 lumens. You can get more or less light and runtime out of it as needed, so it is both much brighter and much longer lasting than the anglehead, despite being about 1/20th the mass of the older light. It's a simple twisty, so there's just one junction which is also the one contact, if you can operate a MiniMag, this turns on and off just as easily. And LED reliability means no worries about tumbles, if you want to pass this light on to your grandkids, it will work then just as it does now.
You should look into some of the flashaholic lights, we have some very handy and simple models that might surprise you..
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What I said was that I am not addicted to flashlights but that does not mean I am non-technical. The thread was started by someone wanting to know what quantity of light is good for camping. For me it is 10 lumens and my wife prefers 35. Some people like 1 or 3 and I won't argue with that. One lumen is brighter than a candle and three is probably as good as a fairly large kerosene lamp.
PR describes the base type and there are a lot of lamps with that type of base. My MX-99\U came with a PR-3 that is rated at 19 lumens at 3.6 Volts. Since the light uses two D cells rated at 1.5 Volts each I guesstimated the output at around 10 lumens at that voltage. Are you saying the output is not close to 10 lumens or that it is? Anyways, the graph doesn't mean much to me without without knowing more about the lamp.
My light is a recent post-Vietnam model with the ears on the switch that I just purchased back in '85. In twenty plus years of use the light output was very constant and I am still on my second bulb even though the light has been dropped many times. The only drawback to it was when the temperatures dropped near freezing the output dimmed a lot. For cold temperatures like that I had a backup 3 C Maglite with a Ni-Cad stick and a PR type lamp rated at 2.5 volts.
Since I am not an addict and already have a couple dozen LED lights I am not looking to buy this Quark light you are promoting no matter how groovy it is.
StarHalo
Flashaholic
Good to hear, let me help you with some details:
- A candle flame averages 13 lumens, it just doesn't seem that bright because it radiates that light in all directions. But if you compare how it lights a cramped space compared to a dim flashlight, it holds its own.
- The chart above is very similar to what the runtime curve of the anglehead light would look like, except the anglehead has shorter runtime. What it's explaining is how quickly the output falls and declines, how the light is unable to hold a steady output level. Our regulated flashaholic lights have a completely different looking in curve, in fact it's not a curve at all: it's a straight line, for hours and hours, until the cell is near death, and only then does the output start to decline.
- The output of your light declines in the cold because alkaline cells start to get iffy below freezing (they fail completely at just below 0F). Rechargeable cells fare only modestly better, but for serious cold weather use, you should stick to lithium primary cells, sold as Energizer "Ultimate" Lithium batteries. The good news is that these cells are good down to -40 degrees, the bad news is that they aren't made in the D cell size.
- There are many different kinds of LEDs that have significant differences between them. Some of the LED lights you probably have feature multiple five-millimeter LEDs that look like clear little bulbs and have a very blue beam; each of these LEDs puts out around five lumens. These are worlds apart from the "Power LEDs" which we flashaholics most often use, which are available in any shade of white you please and can cruise comfortably at 200 lumens (that's why our lights have modes, if we just ran them at full power all the time, everyone would be blinded!). A good example would be the light with a new Cree XM-L LED that's in my pocket - it runs on a single AA battery and can output just under 500 lumens, or twice the output of a 6 D cell Maglite (and can be turned down to 2 lumens, dimmer than a match.) Saying "I've already seen LEDs" would be like saying "I've already seen incandescent bulbs," there are so many different kinds that it's sort of a silly statement. Plus LED technology moves very quickly, we get upgrades in output and efficiency every few months, sometimes a big jump when a new model is introduced.
looman
Enlightened
Thrunite Scorpion would be a good bench mark
Firefly allows night navigation to a degree and reading,
The max will deal with all other eventualities
Primary and rechargable options
V2 even better with turbo head option.
For camping/wlaking you need both ends of the rainbow. You cant have too little light and you cant have enough. A lot depends on the area. Massive flood and throw in woodland wont get you far but the trees sure look pretty. My Deft ( an aspheric penetrats well as no spill
I would pick up my scorpion if I needed a good alreounder light with hi/low flood/throw.
I am considering upgrading to the V2 model with the optional turbo head as i hunt and the extra throw and output can be helpful. However, the memory output makes it a really flexible light choice. The armytek predator is a similar type but the UI was just too fiddly in the field.
Firefly allows night navigation to a degree and reading,
The max will deal with all other eventualities
Primary and rechargable options
V2 even better with turbo head option.
For camping/wlaking you need both ends of the rainbow. You cant have too little light and you cant have enough. A lot depends on the area. Massive flood and throw in woodland wont get you far but the trees sure look pretty. My Deft ( an aspheric penetrats well as no spill
I would pick up my scorpion if I needed a good alreounder light with hi/low flood/throw.
I am considering upgrading to the V2 model with the optional turbo head as i hunt and the extra throw and output can be helpful. However, the memory output makes it a really flexible light choice. The armytek predator is a similar type but the UI was just too fiddly in the field.
Curias
Newly Enlightened
I like to use my Malkoff M61WL @ 125 lumens for my night hikes. Usually lasts the whole night. The warmish tint is easy on the eyes.
However, I would like even more lumens. I know I could get by with 10 if I had to, but it's fun to light up the area nicely.
However, I would like even more lumens. I know I could get by with 10 if I had to, but it's fun to light up the area nicely.
g.p.
Enlightened
- Joined
- Jan 3, 2009
- Messages
- 387
I'm loving my TK41 for camping. The low (10 lumens) is perfect for walking and keeping night vision. All of the other modes are perfect for seeing things at various distances, or seeing what's out on the lake. Perfect for spotting wildlife across fields.
Inside the camper/tent I use my Zebralight SC51. Perfect for reading or going to the bathroom without waking anyone up, and perfect for having in your pocket during the day to fix stuff.
Inside the camper/tent I use my Zebralight SC51. Perfect for reading or going to the bathroom without waking anyone up, and perfect for having in your pocket during the day to fix stuff.
Okay so a candle radiates 13 lumens into a 2 pi solid angle. Does that mean that a dim flashlight with 1 lumen output is useful? My preference is about 10 lumens like I previously stated but I guesstimated that a one lumen flashlight would be useful.
At least three of my LED lights have DC to DC converters. Although they can boost the voltage I expect they are not traditional buck-boost types because they are all too small to contain much of an inductor. There is no reason that a flashlight manufacturer could not use a DC to DC converter with an incandescent lamp but they usually don't need to. An 8000 mAh carbon zinc cell's output is very linear with a 500 mA load over a couple of hours so it doesn't really need regulating.
Actually the 3.6 Volt at room temperature pack worked very well to drive the 2.5 volt bulb at freezing temperatures. It was only a matter of having the light long enough to pack up the tent because I don't enjoy freezing and go home instead. Today I would use a regulated LED in a PR package with the Ni-Cad stick instead of the filament bulb.
A while back I used those in our wireless rain gauge and remote temperature transmitter. They worked fine but were awfully expensive. I converted the remote temp. unit from using two AAA cells to two CR-2032s in parallel by making an adapter from wood and brass wire. The rain gauge is more of problem since it runs at about 4.5 Volts. Still haven't decided if I'm going to use 2032s and drop the voltage with a couple of silicon diodes or see if I can convert it to solar using a couple of old lawn lights.
The improvements in LEDs have been more quantitative than qualitative. As far as I know there are only two ways to get "white" light with LEDs. One is to combine three or more single colour LEDs like a red, a blue, and a green to get an output that looks whitish. The other way is use a shorter wavelength emitter to excite a fluorescent material that emits whitish light. In both cases the light output is concentrated at a few wavelengths and contains a large amount of blue.
My most powerful LED flashlight is rated at just over 100 lumens and I consider it way too bright for a campsite. Even my wife's 35 lumen light causes me to lose any semblance of night vision so I'm still going to stick with my original answer of 10 lumens.
StarHalo
Flashaholic
Yes, many flashaholics who do close-up work in the dark prefer a fraction of a lumen, .5 lumens or less.
I'm talking over the course of many hours, over five hours at 25 lumens with the aforementioned Quark light (somewhere near two days in the low mode).
LEDs do perform better in the cold, but Ni-Cad is some very obsolete technology; it self-discharges quickly even with the battery is sitting doing nothing, and there's also the "memory effect" with recharging. The Sanyo Eneloops sold at your local Wal-Mart don't have either of those problems; they retain at least 85% of their charge over the course of a year (over 75% over three years, don't try that with a NiCad!), and you can use/charge them in any way you please.
The aforementioned Eneloops would be ideal for your weather station remote, as they're good down to well below freezing, last longer than alkalines, and can be recharged as needed.
Our modern LEDs can not only be linen sheet white, they can also be kerosene lamp warm; we use the Kelvin color temperature scale to measure how cool or warm LEDs are, and "neutral" 4500K and "warm" 3000K LEDs are all the rage right now. I have a warm LED version of that Quark light, I use it to light the living room during power outages. Just set it on high and stand it on its tail, presto, cozy and comfortable Coleman lantern light for a whole room.
I typically use 2 lumens when moving around in a familiar outdoor area, but it's nice to have 200+ lumens on hand immediately if something makes a noise or starts moving - having both of those output levels in the same light is very handy.
It is not the lamp that performs better in the cold but the regulator.
My GE Power Stick RCR-3C replaces 3 C cells and is very convenient. It never self-discharged much over the few days I was camping. It still works for me and I already own it so it does not matter if it is obsolete. Some of my cells are still Ni-Cad but most are now Ni-MH and some are even Eneloops. The Ni-MH cells will still occasionally do the low voltage trick when given a sizeable load. My MH-C9000 says they are "HIGH" but it amounts to same thing as "memory effect". The digital camera quits either way.
Tried that first. Most of the time when I buy a pack of Ni-mh cells it comes with a couple of AAAs. Now I have more of them than I need so I first tried a couple of freshly charged Eneloops and they did not produce enough voltage to start the thing. After that I looked around and found a shop that sold Sunbeam brand 2032 lithium cells three for two dollars. Then I carved a functional but ugly wooden and brass adapter and the thing has been working fine ever since.
There is a lot more to lighting ergonomics than the colour temperature. The output spectrum is more important than the colour temperature in my experience.
About ten years ago we switched about half the lamps in our house for fluorescents. They were expensive back then at about $20 each and were guaranteed to last UP TO five years. [The guarantee was good because every one of them failed within the specified time.] Some time after that I replaced the tri-light in the living room with a fluorescent one. Then my wife started getting headaches when reading or doing fine work. She went out and bought an incandescent work light and the problems disappeared.
In our kitchen which has a four bulb fixture I put in three different fluorescent lamps with different spectral patterns and one small incandescant bulb. That seems to work pretty well but these modern lights leave much to be desired. Now that the old ones are being outlawed I will need to stock up on the banned bulbs. Perhaps I can make a fortune flogging forbidden filaments. Time will tell.
Well I still prefer 10 lumens for most things but I never went camping with just one flashlight. If I needed something brighter I used a B&D Mod 4 light . It uses a GE sealed beam lamp that spews out lumens like crazy. The lamp is rated for 6300 Maximum Beam Candlepower which must be close to 500 lumens. There was also a Mod 4 vacuum attachment which is the precursor of the famous Dust Buster. My wife loved to vacuum the tent with it.
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StarHalo
Flashaholic
That's a major point of contention among flashaholics right now; some feel the color temperature is more valuable, others prefer High-CRI emitters only. I'm split because most of the High-CRI LEDs are warm, and I prefer a neutral to cool color temp in a general use light. You can definitely see more colors with a High-CRI emitter though.
Your wife's issue with the florescent lighting probably stems from its flicker and not the color rendering; I share your disdain for household florescent lights in general, and I think once LED bulbs have fully saturated the market, the whole CFL era will be viewed as a mistake.
I had to look that one up; turns out the Black & Decker MOD 4 System is from ..before I was born. That's some resistance to upgrading! You'll be completely disinterested to know that I use a groovy single AA cell $30 LED light that also puts out about 500 lumens to spot owls flying over/around my yard..
To answer the OP's initial question I would say 10-20 lumens are used often but sometimes a brighter light is desired.I would go with a multi-mode clickie design simlar to some lights that are already available.
Bezel loose- <1 lumen,10 lumens,40 lumens and 80 lumens
Bezel tight- 150+ lumens
A hidden beacon and/or strobe would a nice addition for emergencies.
Bezel loose- <1 lumen,10 lumens,40 lumens and 80 lumens
Bezel tight- 150+ lumens
A hidden beacon and/or strobe would a nice addition for emergencies.
:thinking: So... how many lights do you own??
