Yet another surefire topic

I finally added my name to the long list of surefire owners. Just bought an E2 today, after debating for a very long time. I just couldn't consider myself a true flashahoic without having an "ultimate tactical light" as everyone likes to call them.

Anyway, I'm rather disappointed with it, I don't know if it's because I had very high expectations, or maybe I just got a bad surefire. I was expecting a light that would make all of my other lights seem like dime-store toys, but unfortunately that's not the case. The quality and construction of the lights is definitely good, but I can't understand why people rave about the fit and finish. I looked at it carefully, and I can say is that the overall construction of the light is not that much better than a mag light. Sure the anodize might be thicker, but I'll probably still end up scratching it anyway. The machining didn't really seem all that much better than any of my mag lights, unless you count deeper knurling as a sign of quality. Either way, they're both way ahead of brinkmann's. I was kinda surprised that when I screwed the head down all the way, the O-ring and groove were still slightly exposed. I would've thought that the head would overlap and cover that up. Then, when I unscrewed the head to look at the batteries, I heard something drop and bounce across the floor. Hmm...I thought for sure that there would've been something to hold the lamp assembly in place when changing the batteries. After all, if you're in a "tactical" situation and needed to change the batteries, you wouldn't want your lamp assembly falling out, would you? Oh well, at least it didn't break. After I removed the batteries, I noticed the inside of the body had some deep spiral grooves on the interior, almost like they started to cut threads the inside but decided against it. Either that or they removed the cutting tool too fast while still taking a cut.

As far as the beam quality, I guess it's nice, almost as good as my brinkmann LX. But for $13 a pop, I would expect the filament to be made of gold. Can't imagine what could cost that much to make a bulb when I can get entire flashlights for that price. After I put the light back together, I was playing with it and noticed that the batteries rattled around when I shook it. I'm not really bothered by a little battery rattle, but it seems like that's a major concern with a lot of people, and I thought for sure that the "best tactical light in the world" wouldn't have a problem like this.

Overall, I still think it's a decent light, but it's been waaaaayyyy overhyped and overpriced. Maybe I'm missing out on something? Is there something that I haven't noticed that would make me feel better about spending 3x the amount for this light? Is the Surefire Aluminum stronger than Mag Light Aluminum? Is the checkering on the rubber tailcap switch a $30 process that only surefire knows how to do? All I see in front of me is a $30 light with a $60 name.

I don't think you're supposed to change the batteries by unscrewing the bezel of the light. I always unscrew the lock out tail cap to do that.

Sarcoblaster,

With the E series, the batteries won't come out of the tail; the bezel must be removed. InTheDark, The alloy and anodize of the SF will give you better service than the softer alloys and coatings of leser expensive lights. Ultimately, value is in the hands of the beholder. Sorry you are dissapointed in your first SureFire.

- Don

The E2e upgraded some things that were problems in the E2 models. Maybe you can try the E2e? The E2/E2e is made for EDC not tactical environment. I wouldn't consider using an E2e for a traffic stop. There are better lights suited for the Tactical Environment.

It is however, my belief that the E2e / ArcAAA is the best EDC combo for general purpose carry. The Brinkmann LX/Scorpion is way too big in my front pocket. Anything smaller just isn't bright enough.

Sorry to hear you were dissapointed.

Originally posted by McGizmo:
Sarcoblaster,

With the E series, the batteries won't come out of the tail; the bezel must be removed.

- Don

Click to expand...

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">That's right, thanks for correcting me. I used to have an E2 but replaced it with the 6P. Since I never had my bulb fall out while changing the batteries, I probably got confused.

Yes, I too was surprised that the Lamp Assembly just falls out every time that you change the batteries.

This is DEFINITELY a design defect, IMHO. Products should NOT fall apart when you change the batteries.

My kids toys don't lose parts when I change the batteries, why do my SureFire lights?

Tactical or not, this is just a bad "feature" of my E2e's. I know that this was an economic decision. A clip or some type of simple insert could keep the lamp from falling out unintentionally, but the clip would cost money to produce and install.---Marc

The LA should have a retention clip. I agree, I hate the LA falling out.

I agree it should have some kinda clip or something to hold the LA, that said i have always been careful and have only dropped one lamp when changing heads on my M2, a P61 from about 2 feet onto a solid concrete floor. I almost killed myself i was so mad, i was like well there goes $20 you IDIOT. But then i put it back in and it works, guess i was lucky. And more to the point, i have handled a E2 and they are nice for EDC but it is at the bottom end of the surefire line so dont expect too much from it, i think the full size 2 cell lights are a MUCH better buy IMO, then you can use the P series lamps and get up to 120 lumens(spelling?) And then you have the ability to add a turbohead or a A19 etc. and you can pretty much customize it to do what you need. With the E series you have no expansion(unless you count the LED bezels).

With a Classic SureFire, if you replaced the batteries from the bezel-end, you'd have to be careful that the Lamp Assembly didn't fall out. If you replaced the batteries from the TailCap-end, you had to be careful that the TailCap parts didn't fall out.
The LockOut TailCap solved this for the TailCap end. However, the Bezel end still required care, including the E Series. A while ago, people were complaining that the E Series bulbs were too difficult to remove. I guess SureFire can't win.
Having said that, the E Series are winners for SureFire and it's not an issue meriting more then this thread and a passing comment here and there.

The MN03 is a very robust bulb. As the Lamp Assembly is very light-weight, it is pretty difficult to damage it.

Al

I can certainly see your point. A $20 Legend LX will do basically the same thing. BTW, my Legend LX bulb has fallen out of it's socket.

All I can tell you is what I like about the E2:

- Smallest 2x123 light available, this reason alone made it worth the purchase since a bigger light would not easily fit in my pocket.
- Agressive knurling. It's nice to have a light that when you hold it, the knurling is actually grippy. I've never seen a mag-lite with very good knurling.
- Longer runtime than the LX.
- Low output lamp option with 2.5 hour runtime.
- Type III HA is harder & will hold up were a mag-lite will just "shed" it's finish as soon you use it.
- Tailcap assembly is the best I've seen, there's really nothing that can fail. Mag-lite push button clickie switches can and do fail, not to mention the rubber switch buttons pop off.
- Chemcote interior finish.
- Did I mention it's small?

It does **** me off too that the bulb falls out though!

When it comes down to deciding on a light and you don't care how big it is, or how durable it is, then I would say the E2 is just an expensive flashlight.

InTheDark,

Stick a KL1 on the E2 and your bulb won't fall out

Go digital young man!

I would like th throw in another option that many appear to overlook.

The ASP is just slightly larger than the E2, has a great grip, wonderfuly addictive clickie tail switch, brighter, longer throw than even the P6 Surefire, and cost about $40. (I paid 41.00 on Ebay) I can honestly say I prefer it over any of my 2 123 battery flashlight. (at the moment).

The E2e is, in my mind, a SMALLER replacement for a mini-mag that maintains its light output better over its (albeit shorter) battery life and has a LOT more light output.

The E2e fits nicely in my pants pocket where most of the other lights will not--not even the minimag.

Belt-carrying a flashlight is not appropriate attire for most of the meetings I go to (I'm lucky to avoid a jacket and tie <smile>).

I must say, the three-cell Surefires are impressive--especially when you use the HOLA or the SRTH turbo head.

If you need reach, the SRTH Turbo Head or a Streamlight Ultrastinger (if you want rechargeable) would be a great choice. If you want alkalines, the 6-C-cell Underwater Kinetics SL6 is about as good as it gets.

I have some real candela measurements (as does Brock) of these lights on my Web page.

Surefire lights (except the turboheads) are broader than we're used to with mags in a narrow focus.

However, if you really want light, the Vector spotlights are interesting, but have their own set of tradeoffs. My 9P trio (see Web page) solves most problems beyond my EDC lights.

Cheers,

Richard

Thanks to all the responses. I've been carrying it for almost a day now, and in a way I'm starting to like it. Sean, you're right, the small size is definitely an advantage over other similar lights, but I'm still questioning how the small size could drive up the cost that much. It's not like electronics, where you pay a premium for small packaging. If that were the case, the solitaire would be the most expensive light out there . As for the finish, I don't think mine is a type III HA finish, I think it's just the regular Satin Grey anodize.

SurefireM6, I considered the E2e, but one of the reasons I wanted the E2 was because it was the smallest light in it's class, I didn't really need the extra hex bezel of the E2e. And you're right that the E2/E2e are more geared torward personal use, but I would've thought that the surefire reputation for quality would extend throughout their entire product line. I'm still not sure if the light I have is just a reject, does anyone else have problems with the o-ring being exposed or deep scratches on the inside of the body?

Size15s, I really don't know what to tell you. I've never seen anyone so brainwashed by a brandname before. I'm sorry if you think that the LA falling out is such a trivial problem that it shouldn't even be discussed here, obviously most people here disagree with you. I don't know why you think the E series are such "winners" for surefire and that they're perfection in lights.
How is the MN03 such a robust bulb, and how is it lightweight and difficult to damage? Is this just blind loyalty on your part, in your mind surefire can do no wrong? As far as I can tell, it's the heaviest lamp assembly out there, most other flashlights just use a bi-pin bulb with no retainer. And even a cheap $2 flashlight has some way of keeping the bulb in place while changing the batteries, I didn't think it was unreasonable to expect something similar in a $60 flashlight.

Anyway, the E2 is probably the best 2x123 light out there, but for me, I don't think it's worth the extra money and I would hate to see other people be disappointed in their purchase too. I just wanted try and look at it objecttively and find out why other people thought they were worth the extra expense. So far people cite Size, Anodize, and Material as the main factors. While surefire exceeds in those areas, I'm just trying to understand how those three things alone can make a $8 mini-mag sized light into a $60 light

The good news is that all the money I would've spent on another surefire, can now go torwards the purchase of a tigerlight

The O-Ring sticking out is normal on the E2. The E2e solved this by completely covering it with the head. The hex head is not bigger than the E2 round head. It's an optical illusion and it keeps the light from rolling. The E2e also has the Pyrex lens which allows more light to pass through and it's scratch resistant.

I started with an E2 and was actually hesitant to change to the E2e at first. It actually took me a couple of weeks of switching between the two to finally like the E2e better!

Originally posted by SarcoBlaster:
I don't think you're supposed to change the batteries by unscrewing the bezel of the light. I always unscrew the lock out tail cap to do that.

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<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">?

Which E2 do you have ?
on my E2 i can change the batteries only by unscrewing the head.

[...The O-ring sticking out is normal on the E2...]

?????????????

I must have an abnormal one, then. Mine has no issues at all.

InTheDark, the E2 is IMO the smallest flashlight extant that puts out serious illumination. No, I wouldn't deliberately use it on a traffic stop, either; but I also would not feel inadequate if I had to.

Steve

I'm sorry to hear you're dissappointed with your E2. Never owning one, I really can't comment, however I have no issues at all with my E2E. Quite frankly, the E2E is an engineering marvel. There is nothing on the market that puts out that amount of light and that quality of light, in that small of a package.

Yes, I know the Legand LX has a good beam, but the LX is larger than the E2E. Also, the E2E has many user-changeable options to allow it to do many different things.

You can use the MN02 for longer runtime. It's still a great beam, good for close-up work, but without the long throw.

You can use the MN03 for a longer reach when you need it and still have a good hour of very white light, with perfect beam.

You can then throw on a Kl-1, for one of the best LED style beams around, with a strong 4 to 4.5 hours of constant runtime.

More recently, you can grab one of McGizmo's E2 to C adapter that opens up an entirely new world for the E-Series. I can now run my G2Z head, with either the P60 or P61 LA. I can add the KT-1 turbo head for a bit more throw. The choices are almost endless.

InTheDark,

I am sorry, I did not intend for you to be offended by my post.

I would say I am very passionate about SureFires. Perhaps that is what someone who has been brainwashed would say?

Al

I've had a bunch of small EDC flashlights and, at least for me, my E2/KL1 and E2e are darn near perfect. Years ago I had numerous mini Mags that seemed to fail mechanically, even though they were not abused. I had a small box of mini Mag parts that I eventually pitched. As for their light output... I need say no more

Nice thing now is that there are real choices in small EDC FL's (besides SF).

Byron