Boycott the A2!!

Already have mine paid for. I think the price is great.

If you don't like the price, don't buy it. It is just that simple.

With thousands of orders SF will not care about 20,30, or even 300 boycotts.

Concur. Will not buy. $225 for a Attitude and an E2 in one? Forget it. Even with regulation of the incandescent, as Gandalf said, the flat discharge of lithiums isn't so bad that they need regulation.

'Overpriced' is the only decent word I can think of.

Will the first person who gets an A2 please confirm that the LEDs work with the main lamp burned out. (I would think you could simulate that with electrical tape in the correct places...or removed...but make sure that removing the lamp doesn't close a switch someplace.

Thanks!

Richard

It is $200 at www.tacticalwarehouse.com

You know, it is a "second generation" flashlight.

LEDs will work with bulb blown. LEDs will be user replaceble. If you don't like original color, you can change it.

"Second generation"?...

There is no new technology being employed. LED's, regulated incandescents; this has all been done before, just not all at once in a single handheld light, which IMHO (and apparently the opinions of many others) does not justify the price.

I'm waiting for a $40 aluminum 3 LED/6 LED/Xenon switchable 2x123a light to come in. I guess that adding a regulator, different switch, a HA finish, and removing 3 LEDs would add $160 to the price?

I'm not about to spend $200 for the A-2, but if we can negotiate a group buy for, say, $160, it might be tempting.

Although dang, now that I like at that number -- $160 -- even that seems like an awful lot, in such bad economic times.

My guess is that there are some bad business fundamentals at play here. Like many companies, perhaps SureFire over-extended on R&D during the boom, depending on the hot economy continuing in order to sustain their cost structure. When the economy dropped, they found themselves in a some trouble. Since to many buyers these lights are not a luxury, now they're testing the waters to see how much they can raise the price to help keep them afloat.

If ASP or Streamlight have been thinking about entering this market niche, I'd say the time will never be more ripe, since Surefire's prices are even beginning to frustrate even the "you have to pay more for quality" crowd.

Joe

Originally posted by Gandalf:
I mean, the A2 is in the same price range (approx.) as an M6, when sold at a discount.

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<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Ur, you mean the A2 is exactly the same price as the M3. Not the M6. Look on the Surefire website for retail M3 pricing. $225 for either.

All Surefire's are expensive and overpriced, but people still buy them, even with 20 minute run-times. So I don't think the A2 will have a problem selling.

It is a very attractive light...but not for the price. I will not buy one. In a short period you will be able to get them for 175 or even less. Or better yet, Strategos or someone else will come up with a clone which is better, and cheaper.

As I said on the SFDB, I would rather carry my E2e and Opalec. If the "digital regulation" circuit of the A2 take a dump on you...you are screwed. With my scenario I have 2 completely separate flashlights. And let's face it, I'm a flashaholic so wouldn't be caught dead with only one torch...duh!

Originally posted by rlhess:
Will the first person who gets an A2 please confirm that the LEDs work with the main lamp burned out. (I would think you could simulate that with electrical tape in the correct places...or removed...but make sure that removing the lamp doesn't close a switch someplace.

Thanks!

Richard

Click to expand...

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Richard, for what it's worth, the first time I saw the A2, the incandescent LA was missing completely and the LED's worked fine.

I find the price steep myself but don't doubt some of the rationale for it being where it is. Another problem with pricing in general that bears some consideration on all of the flashlights is the country of manufacture. We live and function in a golbal economy and yet at times we berate ourselves for not buying products made in USA. For better or worse (I keep my opinions to myself here) SureFire is made in the USA. To compare it's pricing with pricing of lights from offshore is not going to show SF as a bargain. As FC so clearly put it, don't like it, don't buy it. This is one of the features of a free enterprise.

If trends continue, someday little will be manufactured here. At that point, we won't have to worry about patent infringements, cost of R&D, high wages and labor burdon of factory employees, liability insurance and all those other costs of manufacture. Maybe we can just wait for some offshore company to design and create product and then we can take the easy path of coping their product. Perhaps we then will be at the low end of the international labor scale and new cottage industries of labor pools will be developing here for those Americans not suited as part of the service industries that have survived.

My 2 cents on the A2 and SF in general: I think the engineering and design as well as material selection and execution is unsurpassed by no other company; not even close.

Regarding the sales and marketing practices as well as pricing, I think some folks at SF have their craniums even further up their poop shoots than I do and I readily admit that I suffer from "limited" visability! Maybe that's why I like flashlights

- Don

To Surefire: Keep on raising your prices. It must be nice to live in a super-inelastic demand curve dreamland...

To Surefire's competitors and startups: Time to take direct aim at Surefire's "tactical market" niche. Surefire has never been more vulnerable than now...

GunCollector,

I think you mean inelastic demand curve (Q is fixed regardless of P?) Anyway, well said!

- Don

Don-

I think it is inevitable that sooner than later, some American-led startup will introduce a product line to rival Surefire's (yes, even in quality and material selection)--but produced overseas.

The era of "innovation" in this segment of the flashlight market is over for the immediate future. Xenon bulbs, LED technology, lithium-power sources, and aluminum hard annodizing are no longer any secrets. CNC machining is economically feasible worldwide, reducing the need for hand-assembling or finishing.

The "tactical/outdoors knife" industry (i.e CRKT amongst many others I'm sure) has already embarked on this trend, as has the "tactical nylon" (i.e. Blackhawk Industries) industry.

It will be a boon to the end-user, having more choices, and will inevitably force Surefire into more reasonable pricing.

Perhaps, this is why Surefire is raising their prices now, because they see the end of their near-monopoly on the "tactical flashlight" niche on the horizon.

I would love to see more "tactical" lights out of streamlight. I mean, everyone who sees my Scorpion and Ultrastinger LOVE them, even Surefire owners. They are even more impressed with the pricing. I hear it all the time:

"Wow!? Not even $40 and you have yourself a light that comes with batteries and an extra bulb that it can hold inside itself, where do I buy???"

Its time for Streamlight to realize how potentially large the market is for tactical lights...

I feel dumb, I looked all over the Surefire Website, and I could only find an A20 and A21, nothing showing an A2.

So I have to ask... whats an A2? and where is it on the surefire website?

Thanks

I posted this on another post, and I think it is appropriate here:
------------------------
Let me get this straight:

Basicly, the A2 is one light that has:

-Is regulated
-The output of an E2 on the incandecent
-3 Nichia 5 mm LED's
- The option by clicking to use one or the other light source.

Did I miss anything?

And is going to cost somewhere between 130 and 225?

If it were 20-40 dollars more than an e2e, it would be a nice light, but it seems a little expensive to me.

Don-

Sorry for the goof, you're right.

It's been a while since my Macroeconomics classes over there in your neck of the woods at Cal. A perfectly inelastic demand "curve" is actually vertical--where a change in price has no effect on the quantity demanded.

Umm guys, correct me if I'm wrong.

But isn't this what you would hear from a non-flashaholic?
"You paid $50 for a flashlight!?"

Now it's just that the roles have been changed, and the flashaholic saying:
"What!? $200 for a flashlight?"

Something to think about..

-YC

Originally posted by guncollector:
...
I think it is inevitable that sooner than later, some American-led startup will introduce a product line to rival Surefire's (yes, even in quality and material selection)--but produced overseas.

Click to expand...

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">GunCollector,

I suspect that you are right on this. If it plays out as you have suggested, is shows the strength of a golbal economy and cooperation. On the otherhand, if QC should falter and the Offshore manufacturer has a "backdoor" where product goes out to others, un beknown to the Start-up, then we see some of the problems that are plagueing others who have taken this direction. Time will tell. I selfishly hope that when the dust settles, the market still allows for a high level of quality and diversity at the upper end.

Old Chinese Curse ( I believe): May you live in interesting times.

- Don

Well, of course it's overpriced...SF believes that people will pay "anything" for a SF light, so why not make the price as high as possible?

I heard a rumor (just a rumor) that some SF lights are being made overseas, mainly the Commander series:8AX and 9AN...Not sure how true that is...

--dan