Re: ZebraLight SC51w
Written by
g.p. on 01-11-2011 08:12 AM GMT
Well, thank you for the explanation and the great link. I guess I'm just weird or see colors differently. I have no idea what all the numbers mean, but from the link that you provided I prefer the cooler (or maybe it's nuetral) tints. The warmer pictures (take the owl pics for example) just seem to look all yellow and brown to me. I doubt that the leaves on the tree look brown in the day time, so the cooler picture with the green leaves looks better to me - more natural. The picture of the three palm trees is another great example. I prefer the middle one becasue it doesn't look brown and yellow, and shows the greens. I can see how the light can be too cool though, like in the third picture of the tree. Everything is starting to wash out and look white.....or maybe that light is just much brighter.
So in the picture of the three palm trees, would the middle one be considered "nuetral"? I can see how that would be prefered, but still don't like the "warm" one. I can't be alone in this. I read a post recently by a manufacturer that said that warm tints just don't sell. I wish I could find the post because he said that warms are out sold something like ten to one. That could be becasue of the lumen numbers, but I would think that the average buyer of these more expensive flashlights are somewhat knowledgeable on the subject.
Very nice pictures in the link BTW! Thanks for sharing!
Re: ZebraLight SC51w
Written by
pjandyho on 01-11-2011 10:25 AM GMT
On the contrary I was trying to tell you that the warmer tint is the one with more accurate colors. Brown on the trees appear as brown and greens appear as green even though it is quite hard to capture all the colors on camera compared to what our eyes see. The cooler colors are the ones taken with a cool white LED. Anyway to each his own and no one in particular is right on what's best for themselves, and ultimately it boils down to what suits you more.
Regarding cool white (white tint) versus neutral white (warmer tint) sales, it won't be exactly right to conclude the findings of consumer preferences based on what or how much the dealers sell. In every production run of emitters it is always the cool version that comes out first followed by neutral or warm version months later. Many cool white would have been sold before neutral white starts showing up on the shelves. By then most who have bought the cool white version would either have lost interest or funding to acquire another light similar to what they already have but with a different emitter. That said, sales figures are not necessarily an accurate yardstick of emitter popularity.
Re: ZebraLight SC51w
Written by
pjandyho on 01-11-2011 10:26 AM GMT
Deleted. Double posting.
Re: ZebraLight SC51w
Written by
ShineOnYouCrazyDiamond on 01-11-2011 11:07 AM GMT
As already stated, neutral and warm are all very relative terms. By Cree definition in the XP-G tint and binning PDF on page 28 here:
http://www.cree.com/products/pdf/XLampxp_b&l.pdf neutral white is defined by the 3700-5000K range and can span the entire 3A-5D tin range. Warm white is defined as 2700-3700K and span the 6A - 8D tint range.
That being said - my H51w is a touch warmer than my SC51w, but both are in the cooler/middle of the tint range. I would probably put the at a 4A rating. Not a bad as a 3A-3D, but still they blow out the blues a bit and are a touch lacking in the reds. It is my own very personal preference that my neutral tints are in the 5A/5B/5C range. I find the color rendition the most accurate to incan light and warming.
That being said I am very happy with the SC51w in the backup capacity in which it will serve. As a primary light I may be a bit disappointed.
Re: ZebraLight SC51w
Written by
g.p. on 01-11-2011 11:25 AM GMT
.
pjandyho said:
Originally Posted by
pjandyhoshowthread.php?p=3650691#post3650691
On the contrary I was trying to tell you that the warmer tint is the one with more accurate colors. Brown on the trees appear as brown and greens appear as green even though it is quite hard to capture all the colors on camera compared to what our eyes see. The cooler colors are the ones taken with a cool white LED. Anyway to each his own and no one in particular is right on what's best for themselves, and ultimately it boils down to what suits you more.
Regarding cool white (white tint) versus neutral white (warmer tint) sales, it won't be exactly right to conclude the findings of consumer preferences based on what or how much the dealers sell. In every production run of emitters it is always the cool version that comes out first followed by neutral or warm version months later. Many cool white would have been sold before neutral white starts showing up on the shelves. By then most who have bought the cool white version would either have lost interest or funding to acquire another light similar to what they already have but with a different emitter. That said, sales figures are not necessarily an accurate yardstick of emitter popularity.
I understand what you're saying, but I'm sorry, it just doesn't look that way to my eyes (or the camera apparently). Even in your photos the greens look brown, which is my real life experience too (like wearing yellow sunglasses during the day I understand what you're saying, but I'm sorry, it just doesn't look that way to my eyes (or the camera apparently). Even in your photos the greens look brown, which is my real life experience too (like wearing yellow sunglasses during the day :sick2
. I see the other side of the argument too, when things get too washed out. I guess I'm somewhere in the middle, so nuetrals will probably suit my tastes best. That's what I thought, but was thinking that perhaps I was missing something.
I'm pretty sure that my eyes are working correctly - I just passed an eye exam last week, so I guess I'll just be content with my "old school" SC51. :thumbsup:
I have been reading and
found this thread. I guess I'm not the only one with my views, but it sure felt that way after reading all the praises of warm tints. I think post #8 sums it up pretty well. I'm sure if people really wanted warm tints they would vote with their wallets (like you said, everyone knows they will be coming soon after), but that's just not the case. Variety is the spice of life, so buy what you love and love what you buy!
Re: ZebraLight SC51w
Written by
pjandyho on 01-11-2011 11:28 AM GMT
I too love the 5A to 5C ranges very much. It is the best tint one could get for a neutral white LED.
Re: ZebraLight SC51w
Written by
davidt1 on 01-11-2011 11:42 AM GMT
This simple comparison page is most effective in convincing me to go with NW. Everything on the left is washed out and lifeless. Everything on the right comes alive with depth and an almost 3-D effect.
http://www.illuminationgear.com/85243.html
Re: ZebraLight SC51w
Written by
pjandyho on 01-11-2011 11:44 AM GMT
g.p. said:
Originally Posted by
g.p.showthread.php?p=3650756#post3650756
I'm sure if people really wanted warm tints they would vote with their wallets (like you said, everyone knows they will be coming soon after), but that's just not the case.
Hey I did vote with my wallet Hey I did vote with my wallet
That said, I do own more cool white lights than I do neutral whites even though I preferred neutrals. That is because most companies are only offering neutral whites as a limited edition run. How do we get to vote with our wallet when we are not even sure if neutral ones would be made available? I would have ordered Zebralight SC51w in a pinch if not for the fact that I am put off by the switch that gets turned on accidentally whenever it sits in my pocket. I sold my SC50w+ due to this reason. My H501w is still with me and I love it for what it could do as a headlamp for my camping trips. Now I will just await the H51Fw before purchasing another headlamp. As for SC51w, as long as Zebralight did nothing to rectify the very sensitive switch, they will never see my money for it.
Re: ZebraLight SC51w
Written by
maniacyak on 01-11-2011 11:53 AM GMT
g.p. said:
Originally Posted by
g.p.showthread.php?p=3650756#post3650756
I understand what you're saying, but I'm sorry, it just doesn't look that way to my eyes (or the camera apparently).
The camera adds another complication - they don't "see" things like we do either. IMO the only way to be sure whether you like neutral/warm tints or high CRI LEDs is to try them out. If not, sell or gift the light, but at least you've tried it. The camera adds another complication - they don't "see" things like we do either. IMO the only way to be sure whether you like neutral/warm tints or high CRI LEDs is to try them out. If not, sell or gift the light, but at least you've tried it. :thumbsup:
Re: ZebraLight SC51w
Written by
g.p. on 01-11-2011 12:28 PM GMT
davidt1 said:
Originally Posted by
davidt1showthread.php?p=3650778#post3650778
This simple comparison page is most effective in convincing me to go with NW. Everything on the left is washed out and lifeless. Everything on the right comes alive with depth and an almost 3-D effect.
http://www.illuminationgear.com/85243.html
Thanks for the link....that's perfect. Thanks for the link....that's perfect. :thumbsup: That confirms that I'm a nuetral man. According to what it says at the bottom 5500k and up is considered "cool", and 2700-3000k is considered "warm". I assume that everything in the middle is therefore "neutral". I too prefer the pictures on the right, but they were taken with a 4300K (nuetral) light. I looked up some of my most favorite lights and they seem to be in the 4500K range, so I'm definitely a nuetral man.
pjandyho said:
Originally Posted by
pjandyhoshowthread.php?p=3650780#post3650780
How do we get to vote with our wallet when we are not even sure if neutral ones would be made available?
Those companies that do offer warm tints would see the nuetral or cool tint sales drop off once they offered a warm version if that's mostly what people wanted. All that I can find are posts of manufactures saying that "warms don't sell" and that "cool sells better". I can't find any posts that say anything along the lines of "cools sell better until warms are available". It appears that cools sell better, period. If what you say is true then Zebralight should see the SC51w out sell the SC51 now that the warmer version IS available. It would be interesting to find out if that is the case. Those companies that do offer warm tints would see the nuetral or cool tint sales drop off once they offered a warm version if that's mostly what people wanted. All that I can find are posts of manufactures saying that "warms don't sell" and that "cool sells better". I can't find any posts that say anything along the lines of "cools sell better until warms are available". It appears that cools sell better, period. If what you say is true then Zebralight should see the SC51w out sell the SC51 now that the warmer version IS available. It would be interesting to find out if that is the case.
edit: Now that I've put numbers to what I like I see that I would prefer the SC51w better. AAGGHHH.....MORE MONEY! You guys suck!
:sick2: Just kidding!
Re: ZebraLight SC51w
Written by
ShineOnYouCrazyDiamond on 01-11-2011 12:32 PM GMT
davidt1 said:
Originally Posted by
davidt1showthread.php?p=3650778#post3650778
This simple comparison page is most effective in convincing me to go with NW. Everything on the left is washed out and lifeless. Everything on the right comes alive with depth and an almost 3-D effect.
http://www.illuminationgear.com/85243.html
I completely agree - who's ever seen a grey tree? Most bark I see is brown and that's how it appears on the right side. I completely agree - who's ever seen a grey tree? Most bark I see is brown and that's how it appears on the right side.
@g.p. - you do realize you are in a SC51
w thread, right? Why come on here and tell us you prefer your cool LED light? And as for post #8 which you reference ask me why, once again, you insist on offending me and the others who DO PREFER warmer tint LEDs. There are many cool LED threads that I am sure would be of more interest.
Re: ZebraLight SC51w
Written by
g.p. on 01-11-2011 12:48 PM GMT
ShineOnYouCrazyDiamond said:
Originally Posted by
ShineOnYouCrazyDiamondshowthread.php?p=3650820#post3650820
@g.p. - you do realize you are in a SC51
w thread, right? Why come on here and tell us you prefer your cool LED light? And as for post #8 which you reference ask me why, once again, you insist on offending me and the others who DO PREFER warmer tint LEDs. There are many cool LED threads that I am sure would be of more interest.
Because I'm new to flashlights, as I stated. I didn't know what I liked until I was helped out on here to verify what I liked. All I knew before asking questions on this thread were: Because I'm new to flashlights, as I stated. I didn't know what I liked until I was helped out on here to verify what I liked. All I knew before asking questions on this thread were:
1-I read tonnes of posts about "warm" lights on CPF, and how awesome they are.
2-I love my SC51.
3-This thread will have people that also love the SC51 (and SC51w), and can compare them.
What makes sense about going to a cool thread and asking "why should I like warm tints"?
Guess what they're going to say - "don't like warm tints!" :duh2:
From the help on here I've found that I prefer "nuetral" tints, which is in fact what the SC51w is according to the illuminatiogear.com link provided above.
BTW, why does it insult you to have someone that doesn't prefer what you prefer? I'm not insulted that everyone doesn't drive the same vehicle as me, or that another brand sells more?
Re: ZebraLight SC51w
Written by
g.p. on 01-11-2011 01:09 PM GMT
Sorry if I insulted anyone by mentioning the term "cool' and "cooler" in this thread. I can go and edit my posts if it upsets anyone. Like ShineOn himself stated, they are relative terms, and I guess I should have used degrees Kelvin to get across what I actually meant. In my defence, I didn't know what degrees Kelvin were until this morning though. Most of the time when I mentioned "cooler" and "cool" I was actually refering to "neutral". As it turns out the SC51w is in fact "nuetral", and not "warm" (just warmer than the standard SC51 I guess).
Either way, I appreciate the help in figuring out what I like, in actual numbers. This will really help my future spending decisions.....and now that I'm educated I can help bump up those warmer tint numbers, since nuetral seems to be included in that group (see I'm one of you now :grouphug:, no need to get offended!). :kiss:
Re: ZebraLight SC51w
Written by
vali on 01-11-2011 02:28 PM GMT
I dont care about depth perception, CRI, etc... I just like the NW tint.
Re: ZebraLight SC51w
Written by
Flying Turtle on 01-11-2011 03:10 PM GMT
For someone who has both the SC50w and now the SC51w, how do they compare? Are the lows and tint about the same? I recently got the SC50w and am quite pleased.
Geoff
Re: ZebraLight SC51w
Written by
GeoBruin on 01-11-2011 03:25 PM GMT
Just throwing this out there for anyone hesitant about ordering because of the "Backorder" disclaimer on the ZL site. I ordered last night and I got a shipping notification today.
Cheers!
Re: ZebraLight SC51w
Written by
B0wz3r on 01-11-2011 03:29 PM GMT
Flying Turtle said:
Originally Posted by
Flying Turtleshowthread.php?p=3650958#post3650958
For someone who has both the SC50w and now the SC51w, how do they compare? Are the lows and tint about the same? I recently got the SC50w and am quite pleased.
Geoff
I've got both an SC50w+ and an H51w, which has the same emitter and reflector assembly as the SC51w. I've got both an SC50w+ and an H51w, which has the same emitter and reflector assembly as the SC51w.
The hotspot on the 51w is larger than that of the 50w+ and has a more clearly defined boundary to it, although it still has some transition. The hotspot on the 50w+ is a little smaller and seems to just sort of melt away very gradually into the spill in comparison. Not sure if the hotspot on the 50w+ really is smaller though, or if it's just an artifact of the reflector and the beam profile it creates.
The tint of the 51w is cooler than that of my 50w+, although I'd say it certainly still qualifies as 'neutral'. Perhaps even moreso, because it's whiter than the 50w+ which in my sample has a clearly noticeable yellowish tint. The 51w has both green and blue in the beam in direct comparison, though in actual use it's hard to see and I can only really see the difference in a direct, side by side comparison. By itself, the tint of the 51w just looks plain white, simply slightly cooler, that's all. It's virtually identical to the tint of my QAA-mini neutral white.
The emitter in the 50w+ is an XPE Q4/5B and it is certainly warmer than the XRE Q3/5A that was in my RRT-0 and in my Jet 3 Pro ST, both of which are more true neutral white. Again, the 51w is definitely cooler, with a more balanced tint overall in comparison to the 50w+ but is slightly on the bluish side compared to the XRE/XPE 5A/B tints. My experience with the XPG neutral whites is they are definitely cooler than the XRE and XPE emitters; while they're not bad, I prefer the tints of the XRE / XPE emitters and don't think I'll be getting anymore lights with neutral XPG's, simply because of my preference. (It also helps keep the CC bill down and my wife from killing me.
)
Re: ZebraLight SC51w
Written by
skyfire on 01-11-2011 05:37 PM GMT
B0wz3r said:
Originally Posted by
B0wz3rshowthread.php?p=3650979#post3650979
I've got both an SC50w+ and an H51w, which has the same emitter and reflector assembly as the SC51w.
The hotspot on the 51w is larger than that of the 50w+ and has a more clearly defined boundary to it, although it still has some transition. The hotspot on the 50w+ is a little smaller and seems to just sort of melt away very gradually into the spill in comparison. Not sure if the hotspot on the 50w+ really is smaller though, or if it's just an artifact of the reflector and the beam profile it creates.
The tint of the 51w is cooler than that of my 50w+, although I'd say it certainly still qualifies as 'neutral'. Perhaps even moreso, because it's whiter than the 50w+ which in my sample has a clearly noticeable yellowish tint. The 51w has both green and blue in the beam in direct comparison, though in actual use it's hard to see and I can only really see the difference in a direct, side by side comparison. By itself, the tint of the 51w just looks plain white, simply slightly cooler, that's all. It's virtually identical to the tint of my QAA-mini neutral white.
The emitter in the 50w+ is an XPE Q4/5B and it is certainly warmer than the XRE Q3/5A that was in my RRT-0 and in my Jet 3 Pro ST, both of which are more true neutral white. Again, the 51w is definitely cooler, with a more balanced tint overall in comparison to the 50w+ but is slightly on the bluish side compared to the XRE/XPE 5A/B tints. My experience with the XPG neutral whites is they are definitely cooler than the XRE and XPE emitters; while they're not bad, I prefer the tints of the XRE / XPE emitters and don't think I'll be getting anymore lights with neutral XPG's, simply because of my preference. (It also helps keep the CC bill down and my wife from killing me.
)
I agree on everything u just posted, and feel the same way. ive had the sc50w, and compared to my h51w it was warmer with a less defined hotspot. the beam of the sc50w reminded me of my HDS high CRI. but not as smooth. I agree on everything u just posted, and feel the same way. ive had the sc50w, and compared to my h51w it was warmer with a less defined hotspot. the beam of the sc50w reminded me of my HDS high CRI. but not as smooth.
I too prefer the tints of the neutral XRE/XPE. my h51w is not as warm as id hoped it to be. on max, it looks white. but as output is lower is gets more yellow. its also cooler than my h501w.
i have a kuku E-series neutral drop-in which uses a 5B bin,i believe, and its much warmer. similiar to the quark neutral XP-Gs.
i noticed green in the tints of the kuku drop-in, neutral XPG quarks, and sc50w.
but no signs of green in my h51w. its as neutral to my eyes as it can get. and the "coolest" neutral tint ive seen besides my SST-50 NB p60 drop-in.
Re: ZebraLight SC51w
Written by
B0wz3r on 01-11-2011 06:15 PM GMT
Skyfire, nice set of lights!
oo:
I too prefer my SC50w to my H51w; for my day to use I prefer the warmer tint and the spacing between the levels. I've replaced my Q-mini AAnw in my cycling bag as my backup/utility light as it's better suited for that than the Mini. Overall, my SC50w+ is my favorite EDC light by a wide margin over my Quark AAnw. So far there really isn't anything about my 50w that I don't like.
Re: ZebraLight SC51w
Written by
Vesper on 01-11-2011 07:32 PM GMT
I received my 51w yesterday and have to say I really like it. Like others have said, tint is less warm then my 50w, but still in the nice neutral range. The bigger, more defined hotspot is also an improvement to my eye, and it does put out a noticeably higher output. The second high level is nice as is the slightly lower low/low setting. Finish is great as usual and its anodizing is a lighter color than my 50w so it's easy to tell them apart. Good stuff.
Re: ZebraLight SC51w
Written by
Marbouk on 01-12-2011 02:11 AM GMT
GeoBruin said:
Originally Posted by
GeoBruinshowthread.php?p=3650976#post3650976
Just throwing this out there for anyone hesitant about ordering because of the "Backorder" disclaimer on the ZL site. I ordered last night and I got a shipping notification today.
Cheers!
That nearly put me off as well but only took 3 days until shipped That nearly put me off as well but only took 3 days until shipped
Re: ZebraLight SC51w
Written by
macnoodle on 01-12-2011 03:09 AM GMT
Marbouk said:
Originally Posted by
Marboukshowthread.php?p=3651483#post3651483
That nearly put me off as well but only took 3 days until shipped
Makes you wonder why they leave it up there. Is it because the back order only takes three days? I guess it's possible that they sell them as they make them, it just seems strange. Most companies wouldn't consider three days to be "back order". If this is the case, it's refreshing to see some honesty. Makes you wonder why they leave it up there. Is it because the back order only takes three days? I guess it's possible that they sell them as they make them, it just seems strange. Most companies wouldn't consider three days to be "back order". If this is the case, it's refreshing to see some honesty.
Re: ZebraLight SC51w
Written by
RedForest UK on 01-12-2011 04:50 AM GMT
Mine shipped less than an hour after I ordered it a few days ago, and that was on 'back-order'. :thinking:
Re: ZebraLight SC51w
Written by
Tierdaen on 01-12-2011 06:04 AM GMT
I got a shipping notification a week ago, but still no light.
Perhaps customs is holding onto it for a while.
Re: ZebraLight SC51w
Written by
pjandyho on 01-12-2011 06:19 AM GMT
Tierdaen said:
Originally Posted by
Tierdaenshowthread.php?p=3651587#post3651587
I got a shipping notification a week ago, but still no light.
Perhaps customs is holding onto it for a while.
I am quite certain that the lights are shipped from China. It may take about two to three weeks to reach you. I am quite certain that the lights are shipped from China. It may take about two to three weeks to reach you.
Re: ZebraLight SC51w
Written by
B0wz3r on 01-12-2011 06:25 AM GMT
pjandyho said:
Originally Posted by
pjandyhoshowthread.php?p=3651600#post3651600
I am quite certain that the lights are shipped from China. It may take about two to three weeks to reach you.
This is so weird... both lights I've ordered from them have shipped directly from TX and gotten to me within 3 days of placing the order. But some people seem to be having their sent from China and there doesn't seem to be any reliable pattern to where they ship from. Seems like this is an issue with customer service they need to work out. This is so weird... both lights I've ordered from them have shipped directly from TX and gotten to me within 3 days of placing the order. But some people seem to be having their sent from China and there doesn't seem to be any reliable pattern to where they ship from. Seems like this is an issue with customer service they need to work out.
Re: ZebraLight SC51w
Written by
pjandyho on 01-12-2011 06:39 AM GMT
B0wz3r said:
Originally Posted by
B0wz3rshowthread.php?p=3651603#post3651603
This is so weird... both lights I've ordered from them have shipped directly from TX and gotten to me within 3 days of placing the order. But some people seem to be having their sent from China and there doesn't seem to be any reliable pattern to where they ship from. Seems like this is an issue with customer service they need to work out.
That depends on their stock availability in Tx itself. When I odered the SC50w+ it came straight from Tx. But my H501w came direct from China. Nothing is wrong with that. At least they try to ship the lights to you immediately direct from China, than to have you wait till they receive all the shipment from China, take another few days to process their inventory, before sending it out to the customers, which will take another few days to arrive? I think that is not bad for customer service. That depends on their stock availability in Tx itself. When I odered the SC50w+ it came straight from Tx. But my H501w came direct from China. Nothing is wrong with that. At least they try to ship the lights to you immediately direct from China, than to have you wait till they receive all the shipment from China, take another few days to process their inventory, before sending it out to the customers, which will take another few days to arrive? I think that is not bad for customer service.
Re: ZebraLight SC51w
Written by
Tierdaen on 01-12-2011 07:11 AM GMT
pjandyho said:
Originally Posted by
pjandyhoshowthread.php?p=3651600#post3651600
I am quite certain that the lights are shipped from China. It may take about two to three weeks to reach you.
I live in Taiwan. I live in Taiwan.
Re: ZebraLight SC51w
Written by
pjandyho on 01-12-2011 07:45 AM GMT
Tierdaen said:
Originally Posted by
Tierdaenshowthread.php?p=3651629#post3651629
I live in Taiwan.
So how long does it usually take shipments to reach Taiwan from China? So how long does it usually take shipments to reach Taiwan from China?
Re: ZebraLight SC51w
Written by
woodentsick on 01-12-2011 08:15 AM GMT
Pjandyho,
How long did your h501w take to reach Singapore from China? My SC51w was shipped out on 5 Jan but it still hasn't reached yet
Thanks for your help,
woodentsick
