Need a small self-defense system for my wife

She works the night shift twice/wk in a questionable area where she has to walk a couple of blocks. What would be helpful here; pepper spray, mace, what? I am largely ignorant of these things and would really appreciate your assistance. Just read a post by Nascar elsewhere that says he has seen many people not effected by a dose of pepper spray. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/poke2.gif

Out of the sprays, oleoresin capsicum works the best. Look for one with high scovil heat units. These come in stream, spray, and foam, which is harder to find.

The stream is quite thin, but shoots the farthest, so at a distance it may be harder to hit the target. The spray pattern is like a cone, no need for precision. I don't have the foam but I assume it shoots more like the cone.

Two things to keep in mind, the small ones may be easier to carry around, but they also do not shoot that far and may run out if there is more than one person needed to control.
The other thing is to try to keep your back to the wind, otherwise, /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mecry.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif

Well... to me, the obvious answer is a good flashlight. One that she can blind someone with long enough to run away. Or if someone gets close enough, one that sh can jam the end into a nice soft throat... then run away.

small self defence system---hmmmm- ONE WORD: Seacamp

Carrying a firearm would be the best solution to the problem, but if that isn't viable, I recommmend Fox Labs OC, as it currently holds the highest scoville heat unit available. If you do not believe that Pepper spray works, buy it and have your wife test it on you. I'm sure you'll VERY quickly change your mind.

You can PM me if you have any questions about pepper spray, as I've throughly researched it and can answer any questions you may have. Good luck!

Hello Phaserburn,

My advise would be to get her into a self defense class. I believe that proper posture, attitude, alertness, and strength will comfort her (and you) more than any spray, light, or gun.

Now don't get me wrong, I think some tools (toys) are also in order, but start with first things first.

Tom

Start with a decent self defense clase as SilverFox suggested. It doesn't have to be a lifetime study of a martial art. If there are any "Model Mugging" courses taught around you, it would be an excellant choice.
http://www.modelmugging.org/home.htm

Supplement that with some decent OC. Fox is the best but most from a reputable brand are also a good choice. Ignore the percentage rating, it's pretty much meaningless. You want a high Scoville Heat Unit (or SHU) rating. Punch, ASP, Mace (it's a brand name that sells OC, and CN), Def-Tec are the ones that come to my mind right now, but there are others. My favorite just for ease of carry and use is the Key Defender by ASP. It's a small tube, the size of a Kubaton or Persuader (and can be used like those, but don't bother). It only has a 6-10 fot range, but comes out in a cone that doesn't really require aiming. It has a tail cap push button with a safety, kind of like the tailcap on a SureFire, and is refillable. 2 million SHU, pretty much the norm, except for Fox (5.3mil) and those crappy drug store brands (some as little as 500,000).
Yes the range is pretty short, but attacks don't happen from across the parking lot. More like 5-7 feet. If they get too close, the ASP can be used like a flail, especially if there are a lot of keys on it.
The best choice of spray type IMO is a cone, or heavy fog. It doesn't have to be aimed into the person't eyes, and will have a greater affect on the person's breathing.

Consider a Taser. The M18 it great, but maybe a bit big. The older Air Taser is less effective (only 87% according to the maker), but is easier to carry. One of the great things about these is that you shoot the person with it, then set it down and leave. When you send the company a copy of the police report, they will replace the unit at no cost. At least it was this way up 'til 3 years ago, might have changed since then.

What SilverFox suggested is a good start. Also, most businesses will provide an escort to a persons vehicle upon request. I know they did where I worked....for anyone, not just females.

Though all the above mentioned possibilities are excellent choices....they require proper if not extensive training. In some instances, you may have been better off without anything if you were not adequately trained with it's use.

mike...just my very humble opinion

I remember there was a brand of pepper spray /mace that was flameable. Carry that around with a lighter and spray it through the flame when you are attacked. Even if you don't actually hit them, the smoke from the burning spray will irriate their nose.
If you can't get pepper spray where you live (I heard it is illegal in some areas to have mace) just head for Home Depot and get a can of wasp spray, (you know, the stuff that shoots 20 feet at yellow jacket nests) It might be bulky to carry around but you will have plenty of spray to hit multiple attackers.
For a stun gun, you can just take a camera flash apart and use the capacitor circuit. These things might not kill an attacker but will knock them out for a few seconds. ( I have shocked myself before.)

I would think multiple systems would be best...
Very bright small light to blind them... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ooo.gif

Pepper spray if they are undeterred... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mecry.gif

Taser if they still won't go away. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/faint.gif

David <><

Hmmmm... yes... every well dressed woman should carry a can of Raid and a butane lighter in her purse so she can have a portable flame thrower... luckily Raid now comes in designer colors so the well dress woman can match her shoes and purse... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif

C'mon guys... this thread is about a SMALL self defense system for someone's wife. And I don't think CPF needs to be a place for how to use some illegal products and how to make your own flame thrower. Let's bring the topic back to where it started, k? Thanks much! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Hello Sasha,

Gee Wiz, I was just getting ready to recommend a spud launcher...

Tom

RevDavid,

I agree with multiple systems.

I like the Seecamp idea, I also like the lightweight 8-shot .22LR S&W revolver for a woman.

I totally agree with the bright flashlight idea.

How about a stun gun (electric spark)?

The OC spray is a must as well.

Also, check out the Kubotan (small aluminum poking type instrument).

[Edit]-I forgot a good folding knife w/thumbstud-thumbhole (check your state laws regarding blade length and serrated edge). A knife may be your last resort if can't carry a firearm, plus you don't have to worry about reloading a knife.

A .22 LR? Please, you want to stop the attacker now, not later. It doesn't help her ithey guy dies an hour later, he needs to be stopped right now. No need to ever go below 9mm or .38 SPL these days. Maybe a .380 if you need a very small gun for deep concealment.

Stun guns are almost worthless except for their deterrant feature. You have to be close enought to touch the guy, then hold it to him for at least 3 seconds. If you can zap him with a stun gun, he can be punching or stabbing you.

Kubatons or persuaders are fine... if your a cop and have some handcuffs to restrain him. You got him in a wrist lock. Now what? There are some jabbing techniques, and they can be used as a flail if you have enough keys on them though. The Key Defender by ASP is the best of these. It is an aluminum tube that is also an OC dispenser. Easy to use, no need for precision aiming, a range of about 6 feet.

Knives are a good idea, as a back up to a gun, or on their own if you can't carry a gun. Make sure the type she's carries is legal. But make sure she gets some sort of training, and remember that a knife isn't as "clean" as a gun. There will be a lot of blood, and stabbing/cutting another is not something that comes easy to most people.

While some of the suggestions are okay, some are absurd. While some situations can occur that would require more, there are a set of first line considerations.

(1) Stay alert to your surroundings.
(2) When threatened RUN. Get out of there. Immediate defense doesn't entail an obligation of punishing or subduing an assailant. It involves putting yourself in a position of safety.
(3) Be prepared to make a lot of noise. Yell, use a whistle or personal alarm or whatever it takes to attract attention from others.

While pepper spray and such may come in handy. Using precious seconds to employ them may be stealing time needed to employ more advantageous actions, and dampen reasonable instinctive efforts.

Unicorn,

Yes, a .22LR. You'll need accurate shot placement, but with the negligible recoil of a .22LR, that shouldn't be hard with practice. A .22LR in the eye (brain) will do wonders to stop an attack. Be sure and use the stoutest load that your gun can handle (hypervelocity ammo).

I don't like to go below .380, but in the case of an 8-shot .22LR, it can still get the job done. I don't trust most .22 automatics and would only recommend the revolver (small frame) due to the rimmed case. Practice ammo for the .22LR is cheaper too.

The best gun is the one you'll have with you.

Having to use a fireman is the last resort. Often, showing a fireman (but not pointing or threatening) gets the job done. Common sense rules.

Gun writers like Massad Ayoob have plenty of good advice about the above.

[Edit]-The bottom line is, what are you willing to do and how powerful a weapon are you willing to be responsible for? To survive an attack is the idea but you must be able to survive the courtroom that inevitably you will face later.

Colt 1911 .45 was designed as a self defense weapon with stopping power...but it aint small and it stops forever, no questions asked.

The escort idea was what I was going to suggest, but thats been taken. Also, self defense classes are good to take anyway.

Brian

North American Arms makes a mini revolver that i would look into

Remember the needs here:

avoid attack (take a course on this- posture and attentiveness are big things);

stop attack (pepper-spray, mace/chemical & mace/pepper, tasers, handguns);

legality (New York says no to tasers and mace for civilians, check your local/state laws. Concealed pistols are illegal in some areas, or have interesting permit requirements.)

About pepper and mace sprays... Pepper-spray takes effect fast, but tends to lose effectiveness quickly. Mace takes a few seconds to really take hold, but lasts for several minutes. People who are really pumped up (drugs or bio/psycological equivalents) have been known to shrug them off, at least partially. An Air-Taser might be an idea, but with only one shot, missing would be bad.

If you decide to use a handgun, think about how much time she'll be training with it. A fast .22 to the head will stop someone, but can she reliably hit something the size of an orange, in the dark, while flustered, at 10-15 feet? If no, use something with 'spray and pray' (NOT a MAC-10), or a bigger gun (Colt M1911 or any .357 will end most problems). Remember that she might only get one shot, and she'll need the target to stop attacking, and concentrate his attention on breathing.

Next question: can she live with the risk of getting edgy and popping a musclebound, tatooed freak who pulled out his car keys and asked for the time? Or shooting at a valid attacker, and having the missed round kill a 5-year old in his home at the end of the block? Even killing someone who would have gladly done the same has real psycological impact. Much as I like the idea of having a .45 for self-defense, the risk of legal and psycological repercussions has convinced me to stay less-than-lethal for now. (Legal? Remember cases of burglars who sue homeowners for injuries, and WIN?)

A firearm is rather permanent, and while it can save your live in an emergency, it has it's drawbacks. It's a demonstrated fact that having a gun makes people both overconfident (taking the shortcut 'because I'm safe') and dangerous (Whoops- missed...).

Other options include beanbag guns (I don't if those are for sale to the public) and the Surefire method (if he's blind, he's a target.)

There was a defense-spray a few years back that included a fluorescent dye to ID the attacker. It was called DYE-ID or Dye-defender, or some such.