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Re: Rayovac PS6: review, theory, mod & trick
[ QUOTE ]
ve7mdt said:
[this is the same as my post in the I-C3 thread, but since the topic was about "availability", I thought I'll repost it under a more suitable name. I hope the mod doesn't mind.]
1. There is no charging circuitry in the I-C3 battery. It's yet another NiMH cell, made in China. Probably OEMed from one of the various manufacturers or factories in China. There is nothing special inside the battery.
3. It's a marketing trick (read: lie) that it is the battery which has charging circuitry inside. They want you to believe that their batteries are special.
So I hope you like my quick report on this PS6 charger.
[/ QUOTE ]
Although you probably don't want to dissect one of your new IC3 type NiMH cells, if you did you would find a switch mechanism. There is no circuitry in the cell, but there is a pressure operated switch. When the cell reaches full charge, the internal cell pressure increases. The pressure actives a switch that disconnects the cell from the charger - perhaps only briefly. This tells the charger that the cell is charged. Undoubtedly there are also timers in the charger to stop the charge if it takes too long or other safety mechanisms to prevent problems.
I would not attempt to fool the charger into thinking a standard NiMH cell was indeed an IC3 cell.
Quote from engineering magazine on IC3 cells:
[ QUOTE ]
The technology's core innovation is a mechanical one. In most rechargeable-battery systems, complicated circuitry inside the charger controls the charging process by monitoring either the temperature or the voltage of the battery. Rayovac's system, by contrast, relies entirely on a mechanical pressure switch that is housed inside the battery, under the positive terminal.
During charging, this switch allows current to flow into the battery until the pressure inside the cell reaches a level that indicates a full charge, at which point the switch opens and stops the current flow
[/ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
ve7mdt said:
[this is the same as my post in the I-C3 thread, but since the topic was about "availability", I thought I'll repost it under a more suitable name. I hope the mod doesn't mind.]
1. There is no charging circuitry in the I-C3 battery. It's yet another NiMH cell, made in China. Probably OEMed from one of the various manufacturers or factories in China. There is nothing special inside the battery.
3. It's a marketing trick (read: lie) that it is the battery which has charging circuitry inside. They want you to believe that their batteries are special.
So I hope you like my quick report on this PS6 charger.
[/ QUOTE ]
Although you probably don't want to dissect one of your new IC3 type NiMH cells, if you did you would find a switch mechanism. There is no circuitry in the cell, but there is a pressure operated switch. When the cell reaches full charge, the internal cell pressure increases. The pressure actives a switch that disconnects the cell from the charger - perhaps only briefly. This tells the charger that the cell is charged. Undoubtedly there are also timers in the charger to stop the charge if it takes too long or other safety mechanisms to prevent problems.
I would not attempt to fool the charger into thinking a standard NiMH cell was indeed an IC3 cell.
Quote from engineering magazine on IC3 cells:
[ QUOTE ]
The technology's core innovation is a mechanical one. In most rechargeable-battery systems, complicated circuitry inside the charger controls the charging process by monitoring either the temperature or the voltage of the battery. Rayovac's system, by contrast, relies entirely on a mechanical pressure switch that is housed inside the battery, under the positive terminal.
During charging, this switch allows current to flow into the battery until the pressure inside the cell reaches a level that indicates a full charge, at which point the switch opens and stops the current flow
[/ QUOTE ]
Re: Rayovac PS6: review, theory, mod & trick
IMO getting clever and circumventing the safeties built into the charger to prevent charging other than the designed cell is reckless.
Frankly I seriously doubt you're that much more clever than the engineers who designed this charger and the *unique cells* it's designed to run with. The idea of charging at high current probably occurred to someone else somewhere along the line to the widespread use of NiMH cells......
It's also my understanding that there is in fact a difference, a pressure switch that opens the cell internally at end of charge. How are you so sure it's not there? How do you even know what it looks like?
Your 'disclaimer' might give you peace of mind now, but how will your conscience feel if some fool follows your advice and starts a fire or gets hurt?
Doug Owen
IMO getting clever and circumventing the safeties built into the charger to prevent charging other than the designed cell is reckless.
Frankly I seriously doubt you're that much more clever than the engineers who designed this charger and the *unique cells* it's designed to run with. The idea of charging at high current probably occurred to someone else somewhere along the line to the widespread use of NiMH cells......
It's also my understanding that there is in fact a difference, a pressure switch that opens the cell internally at end of charge. How are you so sure it's not there? How do you even know what it looks like?
Your 'disclaimer' might give you peace of mind now, but how will your conscience feel if some fool follows your advice and starts a fire or gets hurt?
Doug Owen
Lux Luthor
Flashlight Enthusiast
Re: Rayovac PS6: review, theory, mod & trick
Personally, I don't mind someone experimenting with the system and reporting their results to the forum.
I took his disclaimer to mean that he *wasn't* advising anyone to duplicate his efforts.
Having said that, though, I'd have to agree that if there's a pressure switch in the battery, then defeating the safety features in order to charge non IC3 batteries might be dangerous.
Maybe the title of the thread should just be changed to reflect "experiments", and not a "mod"?
Personally, I don't mind someone experimenting with the system and reporting their results to the forum.
I took his disclaimer to mean that he *wasn't* advising anyone to duplicate his efforts.
Having said that, though, I'd have to agree that if there's a pressure switch in the battery, then defeating the safety features in order to charge non IC3 batteries might be dangerous.
Maybe the title of the thread should just be changed to reflect "experiments", and not a "mod"?
yuandrew
Flashlight Enthusiast
Re: Rayovac PS6: review, theory, mod & trick
Wow, nice one. Lets go back to the time when Rechargeable Alkalines were called "Renewals" I still have my first generation PS-1 which was designed to only charge Renewals. One thing I had noticed about this charger and the batteries was that positive contact on the charger was a U-shaped peice of metal which contacted the top rim of the Renewal cell. A normal alkaline cell has this rim covered up with the wrapper.
Anway, I fooled around and moded the charger by placing a metal strip between the contacts so it can contact the button instead of the rim. I can now charge Renewals Ni-MH and regular alkaline batteries in the old PS-1.
I bought a new PS-1 which can do the Ni-MH and Renewals and saved my old charger for charging regular alkalines. If I blow up my old charger or explode a battery, I probably won't care because I have a new one.
I never had any of my regular alkalines go KA-BOOM!!!!!!!!!!! from recharging them but I know it may happen. I still doubt if I want to mess with an IC-3 though
Wow, nice one. Lets go back to the time when Rechargeable Alkalines were called "Renewals" I still have my first generation PS-1 which was designed to only charge Renewals. One thing I had noticed about this charger and the batteries was that positive contact on the charger was a U-shaped peice of metal which contacted the top rim of the Renewal cell. A normal alkaline cell has this rim covered up with the wrapper.
Anway, I fooled around and moded the charger by placing a metal strip between the contacts so it can contact the button instead of the rim. I can now charge Renewals Ni-MH and regular alkaline batteries in the old PS-1.
I bought a new PS-1 which can do the Ni-MH and Renewals and saved my old charger for charging regular alkalines. If I blow up my old charger or explode a battery, I probably won't care because I have a new one.
I never had any of my regular alkalines go KA-BOOM!!!!!!!!!!! from recharging them but I know it may happen. I still doubt if I want to mess with an IC-3 though
Re: Rayovac PS6: review, theory, mod & trick
[ QUOTE ]
Lux Luthor said:
Personally, I don't mind someone experimenting with the system and reporting their results to the forum.
I took his disclaimer to mean that he *wasn't* advising anyone to duplicate his efforts.
[/ QUOTE ]
I too am very big on both experimenting and sharing information. I hope I've done nothing to discourage that. And yes, the disclaimer is just that, a statement that 'you're on your own'.
However, I think we can all see how 'facts' that aren't quite true (like 'the batteries are just like any other Chinese NiMH....') can be a big problem. In a (good) way, that's what we're all about here (or at least should be), backing each other up, keepin' it real.
Doug Owen
[ QUOTE ]
Lux Luthor said:
Personally, I don't mind someone experimenting with the system and reporting their results to the forum.
I took his disclaimer to mean that he *wasn't* advising anyone to duplicate his efforts.
[/ QUOTE ]
I too am very big on both experimenting and sharing information. I hope I've done nothing to discourage that. And yes, the disclaimer is just that, a statement that 'you're on your own'.
However, I think we can all see how 'facts' that aren't quite true (like 'the batteries are just like any other Chinese NiMH....') can be a big problem. In a (good) way, that's what we're all about here (or at least should be), backing each other up, keepin' it real.
Doug Owen
Re: Rayovac PS6: review, theory, mod & trick
[ QUOTE ]
ve7mdt said:
I have no idea that forum members are not responsible for their own safety and that I am.
[/ QUOTE ]
I'm sorry that's the impression I gave you, such was not the intent.
I doubt you'd be legally liable for someone following bad advice from you (if so a bunch of us'll need malpractice insurance....and quick), I asked the *moral* question having to do with opinions stated in a way the average guy would assume is fact. How would you feel if your mistake caused an innocent party pain.
For sure life is not without risks, but there's a lot of folks here about (over 5000 I understand), some are sure to know less than you or I and take what we say as Gospel. Not that that should prevent us from comments or offering opinions, just that we should keep in mind 'the children are watching'.
Again, I'm sorry if I've scared you off, that was not the idea. My intent was two fold, to correct what I saw as dangerous advice and to put forward the idea of caution in how we put forward the information we share.
Doug Owen
[ QUOTE ]
ve7mdt said:
I have no idea that forum members are not responsible for their own safety and that I am.
[/ QUOTE ]
I'm sorry that's the impression I gave you, such was not the intent.
I doubt you'd be legally liable for someone following bad advice from you (if so a bunch of us'll need malpractice insurance....and quick), I asked the *moral* question having to do with opinions stated in a way the average guy would assume is fact. How would you feel if your mistake caused an innocent party pain.
For sure life is not without risks, but there's a lot of folks here about (over 5000 I understand), some are sure to know less than you or I and take what we say as Gospel. Not that that should prevent us from comments or offering opinions, just that we should keep in mind 'the children are watching'.
Again, I'm sorry if I've scared you off, that was not the idea. My intent was two fold, to correct what I saw as dangerous advice and to put forward the idea of caution in how we put forward the information we share.
Doug Owen
