Why I love Incandescents

Don't get me wrong, I love my SureFire L4 and when the L5 comes out, I'll be all over that too. The Lambda Illuminator continues to be a daily performer...tough and reliable. For middle of the night time, the Opalec+MM gets the nod. And two Palights are on in the house at all times. But there's something about incans that really sparks my fire.

1. Simplicity - No driver boards, no circuitry, nothing to get in the way of the electrons. Polarity? What's that?

2. Low Cost - No $30 LED to blow. Burn out a $3 500 lumen bulb, pop another one in.

3. Voltage Flexibility - With the help of companies like Carley and Welch Allyn, you can find bulbs for 2.5-14V and 0.5 to almost 4 amps.

4. Easy Mod Capability - Swapping bulbs from Brinkmanns to Princeton Tec to Mags to whatever is so easy. Stick it in the PR base, choose your cells and off you go

5. The Heat - I just looooove the radiant beam that emanates from the business end of a HO incan mod, cook wasps, defrost your fridge, a little thermal therapy for a sore shoulder. It may be a bit "caveman" in this era of highly efficient solid state illumination but I'm not ashamed to say it...I like the heat!

Wilkey
I'll always be a "Hot Wire Guy" /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Oh Yeah!

I'm with you all the way on this, Wilkey. It's nice to see the reasons in one list. Reading it is almost as much fun as turning on one of these big-filament beauties.

But there's another reason to love the incandescents. And I know it's an important one to you, because you have used the phrases like "eye-sizzling fun" so much.

The reason, of course, is <font color="red">BRIGHTNESS</font>. Thus far, the LEDs cannot match the incandescents. Brightness is the factor that clinches it for me.

Paul

I'm with you guys! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif

Ginseng-

I felt the same way about analog computers, as you feel about incandescents.


GregR

I have grown very enamored of the MNO2 lamp assembly in my E2e. The throw is great too! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif

yes but that was then this is now. We have led lights, but still love our old filament lights. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

i absolutely love my LED lights--they are my most used.

however...i love to see people's jaw drop when i whip out a stock surge and it blows away their 3d mags.

i cant wait to try one of those multiple-123-battery mods using one of those wonderful Carley bulbs...i just might build one for a camping trip next weekend.

i just put together a bright-as hell but short lived mod using an MR-16 and a 2d mag. not a lot of throw, but it turns my entire backyard into daylight!

even my wife's friends were impressed with that one...

Bob

I am not too sure where i stand on this yet, My Luxeon lights far outnumber my incans. Even my 1 watt lights *look* far brighter than my brightest incan (P61). Right now, im a LED guy, but this could all change when my M4 arrives.

Note to self : must try a HID soon

only thing i dont like about led is the fact,they require more parts.more things to go wrong.but led i think has a lot of growth. still relatly a new technolgy comapred to incadescents.

Pedalinbob, please explain!

Short lived batts? Or short lived MR16?

I have to ask! I have 5x123A driving a 20W MR11 in a 3C M*g. It is kinda yellow, but mighty bright! I just wonder for how long...

My user stuff too is almost exclusively LED, but it's so much fun to play with incandescents!!!

short lived bats, playboyjoeschmoe!

i crammed/shoehorned/stuffed an 8aa carrier into the mag--it was a pain, but works. believe me, nothing groundbreaking, but it seems crazy bright.

that bulb drains the bats rapidly. havent done a runtime check yet, but it really cooks the bats.

mine is yellow too--20w (?) narrow angle (15 degree? i dont remember) MR 16.

jeez! yours must be smokin' bright! i will check into overdriving mine a bit.

Bob

Ginseng,

I was confused, some months ago.

I then bought an HID.

Now I know I like powerful beams of light. Give a try. From the "hot wire" guy you may want to feel like the "hot plasma" guy...

Bright and small. The rest doesn't count.

Regards

Anthony

You have all left out the most important reason, IMHO. !!!!

Incandescent lights have a FULL SPECTRUM light. It's the same sort of thing as filament light bulbs for the home vs. fluorescent lights. There is something about that ghostly fluorescent light that I really dislike. The same goes for LEDs, just not as strong. I've gone for plenty of walks at night with LED lights and I never can manage to shake that eerie ghost like feeling. An LED light has a higher black body radiator color "temperature", cetainly, but its intensity vs. frequency graph shows large gaps. I always feel a great rush of relief when I push the button on my D2 w/ P61 and get that beautiful natural light. BTW, I do not know how anyone could, in any way, think that a 1W Luxeon Star light *seems* brighter than a SF w/P61 HOLA. Even stacked up against an L4 it should seem brighter: P61 -> 120 lumens L4 -> 65 lumens. i.e. it's nearly TWICE as bright as an L4. I honestly have no idea why people like the light from LEDs. Don't get me wrong! I like my LED lights, but I like them because the LED does not burn out or break. It is more reliable.

Heat. Ah yes. This is one of my pet peeves about LED lights. An incan. forward radiates most of the power it disipates in the form of IR--i.e. heat. Which means it goes OUT and AWAY from the light. Most of it anyway. An LED light, on the other hand, must sink the heat away from the LED into the body of the light. Even my little Arc LS gets hot when run constantly. Granted, so does a high powered incan, but for equal light the LED light will get WAY hotter to hold. I do not like this at all. Well, I suppose it could come in handy during the winter time /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif But seriously, if you are a person who needs a constant on, walk around/search light, then LEDs have serious draw backs if you demand a serious amount of light.

THROW. As far as I can tell, incans RULE in the throw category. I like throw. A lot.

Someday, we may look back on incandescent lights and think of them in the same way we think of a steam powered train, or an analog computer, but that day has not yet come. LEDs are not even that much more effecient yet, let alone full spectrum.

I'm sure someone is going to bring up a mod light like a space needle II, which puts out 217 lumens and has a great throw thanks to the mag parabolic reflector it is in. Hmm. Yet I very much doubt--correct me if I'm wrong, please--that the SN II can run constant on without melting. Is that right? Does anyone know? I don't think that many people realize how much of an issue heat dissipation is in high powered LED lights. Probably because they don't need to run their lights for more than a few minutes at a time. OK. Sorry </RANT> I did mention that it was my pet peeve /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Lots of good points here, but a few retorts (I'm combining several other posts here to reply to):

[ QUOTE ]
js said:
THROW. As far as I can tell, incans RULE in the throw category. I like throw. A lot.

[/ QUOTE ]

LEDs have a reputation for not throwing, but I think it's because until recently, we only saw them in little bitty lights, with either no reflector (photon, opelec, etc), optics (KL1, KL3, other NX-05 and even 30mm lights), or a tiny reflector (McFlood). When given a proper reflector, such as in the SNII or the PM6, they seem to throw just as far as an incandescent.

[ QUOTE ]
2. Low Cost - No $30 LED to blow. Burn out a $3 500 lumen bulb, pop another one in.

[/ QUOTE ]

I've never heard of LEDs "blowing" in regular use. Modders regularly slip up and let the magic smoke out, but that's part of the game. LEDs are definitely more likely to survive a drop on the floor, and in the long run they are much cheaper than bulbs. Their extreme lifetime and sturdiness also means you don't need to carry a spare in *most* situations (carrying a spare light is another matter, as you should always have a backup whether you're using LED or incan). BTW, where can you find a $3 bulb that puts out 500 lumens? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

[ QUOTE ]
1. Simplicity - No driver boards, no circuitry, nothing to get in the way of the electrons. Polarity? What's that?

[/ QUOTE ]

You can run direct drive LEDs just like you can incandescents. You could even argue that LEDs do better in direct drive than incandecents do, as LEDs are more efficient when underdriven as the batteries die, whereas incandecsents are far, far less efficient when underdriven. On the flip side, you can design a complicated regulated incandescent, too (cf A2). Polarity is still a problem, though.

JS,

I believe the Space Needle II can run full bore to the end of the batteries without melting the reflector. The one I had started out with fresh batteries at 13.8 watts. I also ran a Carley 808 bulb with 4x123 at 12.5 watts. The 808 did cause the stock plastic Mag reflector to melt a little after 15 minutes continuous on. I think the reason for the SN II's cooler running is the gigantic heat sink of Mr Bulk's that transfers the heat to the handle. It's certainly better than the stock Mag pedestal.

But for running much more than 10 watts, at two and three times that power, you can always get a Carley 1940 reflector, mod it just a hair as described elsewhere, use a high wattage bulb, and have a magnificent incandescent bonfire.

I agree that incandescents can put out much more light (lumens) than LEDs (for now).

Paul

Paul,

Thank you so much for correcting me! That is simply awesome. I'm impressed. That's great that an LED light that powerful does not melt down. BRAVO! I will have to change my tune.

BTW, where is the description you mention of moding a 1940 carley reflector and using a high wattage bulb? On the mod forum no doubt, but could you give me some orientation as I am very new to that forum.

us led modders think you incanny boys are more than a little crazy, but i don't mind a good incan mod every once in a while /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

For reliability,
Nothing beats a Luxeon Star LED direct driven in a flashlight! The switches will fail long before the LED ever does.
For getting inexpensive flashlights for my kids to throw around, nothing like a 99 cent incandescent. They both can live in peace with each other and I actually LIKE the "cold" light of LEDs. My boys prefer the LED lights for the smooth flood of light so it is all personal preferance.

Hi,

Good points all! A little friendly discussion is always appreciated. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif I love my LEDs but there's just a special thrill I get when I heft a 3D and whomp out a nice fat beam to end of the block and worry about waking the neighbors. Or when I let loose 25 watts of sizzling hot electromagnetic radiation out of a "tiny" 3C to the amazement of onlookers. Of course I speak with just a touch of hyperbole, but such is my enthusiasm.

My favorite retort when someone asks me why my Mags are so bright is "Hmm, I must've just got a good one. Yours doesn't do this?" /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Prophet, I'd love to nibble on the HID GB, but that technology is just too expensive and too "delicate" for me. I can have a helluva lot of cheap incan fun for $100.

JS, you are right on about the light color. I find it funny that now "warm" LEDs are starting to come out. Just means these two methods of illumination start at opposite ends of the visible spectrum and work towards some most desirable mean.

TylerD, you can buy the 817 lumen Welch Allyn bipin bulb for exactly $2.20. Push it a bit, use a UCL and coated reflector and I'm guessing you can get maybe 600 lumens out the front. There isn't a single LED that can do that kind of damage.

Wilkey
"A Hot Wire Guy"

ok, off topic...

Ginseng, my wife Carey is going bonkers over your kiddie pics!

you realize she is really ga-ga for babies!

we will be creatin' one of our own purty soon, i reckon...

now, back to your regularly scheduled discussion...

where does one get that welsch allen bulb, and how many volts to feed it?

Bob