Defibrillator Info Anyone?

kubolaw

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I know that someone here noted that a battery charger in trickle charge could be used as a defibrillator if you are channelling MacGyver, but for more conventional use and planning, does anyone have any commercial defibrillator recommendations or pointers to reviews? I'm supposed to be helping someone look for a unit for a small office in case of emergencies, and to this point I have been of less than no use (the battery charger idea didn't go over too well /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

John
 

Roy

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Check with your local Red Cross First Aid class or your local rescue squad. There is a defib unit for idiots out now...it talks you through using the defib.
 

Xrunner

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I think one of them is made by Philips Electronics. I'll check for sure next time I see one (airports have them if you travel a lot).

-Mike
 

Sigman

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I'm waiting/hoping they get small enough and affordable enough for the average Joe to get one. I'd like to have one around for my family/neighbors...minutes & seconds can save or lose lives! Knowing that heart problems run in my family sort of motivates my thinking on this subject!
 

Bushman

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AED's or automated external defibrillators are not sold "without a prescription" so to speak.
 

kubolaw

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Thanks for all the info! I'll see if I can find out anything from our local Fire Dept. It's just that there seem to be so many options and such a range of choices without much in the way of comparative testing. I'm still trying to figure out the practical differences between this $995 unit:

http://www.harrellmedical.com/detail.asp?product_id=3200731-004

and this $6500 unit:

http://www.harrellmedical.com/detail.asp?product_id=PC-LP12

I mean, while I can read from the description that the expensive unit has sophisticated-sounding things like "oxygen saturation monitoring" and "Oscillometric noninvasive blood pressure (NIBP) monitoring", I still need to figure out if these things are more of a help or a hindrance to a non-EMT user. Maybe I'll head over to the library to see if they have any books dealing with defibs.

John
 

Double_A

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I just bought one for my company.

Bushman is correct. However, if you have a business relationship with a local occupational medical clinic the supervising doctor will often sponsor your company and write the prescription. In addition the AED suppliers will often help you set up a program and direct you where to go.

We bought a Philips Heartstart FR2+. It was not cheap, $3500. The boss and I reviewed a few and read ton of lit and felt it was the best for our needs. You can get others for about half that price.

GregR
 

FC.

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The $6500 unit is not an AED. To use it you must be certified to EMT-P(paramedic) level at the very least.

$999 unit IS an AED, and can be used by ANYONE.

FC. , FF/EMT
 

flownosaj

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just get a relatively cheap one...it'll do all that you need.
It walks you through the steps--tells you what to do (place pad, stand clear, etc...), analyzes the rhythm and states whether shock is advised or not. Self contained and low maintenance. If you can read and understand english or can interpret the pictures, then you can use it okay.

I personally feel that every large business and public gathering place should have an AED on site. Also, please get at least one or two people in that office basic cardiac life support qualified (BCLS) through the American Heart Assn. Worth the time and effort.


The big unit is overkill and, no offense intended, but most people won't be able to figure out how to use it in an emergency without first being trained properly. This large unit with display and strip belongs on the crash cart with apropriate meds and qualified personell.


-Jason
 

flownosaj

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Oh yeah, and your car battery with a pair of nipple clamps (jumpers) wouldn't go over too well with the office people either, huh? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif


-Jason
 

The_LED_Museum

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They make defibrillators here in Seattle, under the "Lifepack" brand if I'm not mistaken.
The unit talks you through all of the steps as you do them, and then warns you to "stand clear" before it zaps the patient. I'm pretty sure the unit runs on a rechargeable battery, so you don't need to be near an outlet to use it.
 

Sigman

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We have them on all of our Alaska Railroad passenger trains, though I'm not sure which brand/model they are...pretty good idea hauling hundreds of thousands of passengers each season!
 

Lighthouse

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My workplace just purchased these units. There was much review of various types, configurations, features etc. before the final purchase was authorized by central office.

We now have about 30 units deployed in our district (our local head office alone has 4 stationed in the various lobbies). The remainder are spread out among our various field offices in our district (which covers 5 counties).

The comment regarding the need for physician Rx is correct, and I presume that your medical coverage provider or company insurance might well be able to help out with the various needed details. As others have mentioned, get more than a one person trained on these. My personal opinion is that everyone that takes CPR training should also receive the AED training automatically, according to the instructors this is a commonly expressed sentiment.

We went with the Heart Assoc. CPR and AED training which was limited to 8 students per instructor. Don't know if this was an association requirement, or our required by our internal safety dept. though.

These units are about as KISS and foolproof as one could wish. Open the cabinet door (wall mounted cabinets were extra) and a battery powered siren sounds (fed by two 9v batts.) Take the unit to the person in need, open the lid, push the button and follow the directions. It talks you through everything. I concur 100+% with the comment that most, if not all assembly areas should have these readily available, and that seconds count.

Amazingly enough, the very day that I was in class (about 8 hrs.) when we broke for lunch, somebody on the 3rd. floor had chest pains and 911 was called out.

Immediately, our emergency team popped into action...thankfully the AED was not needed, and the person went to the hospital. Turned out that this person had been experiencing pains all morning (since early AM) and had commented on this to a co-worker who then called 911.

The instructors were VERY IMPRESSED with our emergency teams immediate and clearly coordinated actions (securing elevators, flagmen in the 10 acre parking lot, clearing halls, holding doors open, contacting HRD for medical info. to give paramedics etc.) We just learned last week, that in each of the subsequent 20 or so classes that they've held, we were held up as a great example. We went out to lunch to celebrate our recognition.

Yes, it will cost money up front (units + staff training + monitoring status + periodic battery replacements etc.) It will be well spent, and the first time that your unit(s) are called into action on a real save, you will be glad that you were prepared.

On a side note, it is possible that there might be some sort of insurance reduction for your business by having the unit(s) and staff training.

Disclaimer: I am not associated with any vendors/manufacturers of these or other AED units, neither am I a medical graduate or practioner. Just someone that tries to be prepared, and has taken Red Cross training and CPR classes since 1975. I figure that if it is one on my family members, I want to be able to help them until truly qualified assistance is on scene, and I have from time to time, been able to help others along the way.


Good luck and best wishes on your purchase.

Lighthouse /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink2.gif
ps kubolaw, feel free to PM with any ?'s. Don't know how much I can help out but I'm willing to try.
 

CiTY

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How about a group purchase? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif Just a thought, wouldn't mind getting one for my parents...
 

kubolaw

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Wow, y'all are great. I should have known there would be a wealth of highly informed individuals here. I also heartily subscribe to the KISS principle and want to make sure that the unit is pretty much foolproof (as I will likely be one of the persons trained in its operation). I'm going to look in to your recommendations and also call around to some of the local medical supply houses to see if any of them carry AEDs, since it would seem that ready access to service and support is a good thing to have also.

Lighthouse - if you don't mind my asking, which units did you actually end up purchasing? Is it the LifePack that Craig mentioned? Is it one of the voice-prompted ones that Roy talked about?

CiTY - group buy? Wow, that would be a pretty hefty purchase. Although as I have been researching this, the thought of getting units for my parents and other older relatives has crossed my mind.
 

Lighthouse

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kubolaw,

IIRC it is the Philips Heartstart FR2+. I'll doublecheck the model # tomorrow. Yes, it has the voice prompt.

Something that we observed in class is that the voice prompt is actually a bit slower than a trained person in starting up the unit. When we first practiced CPR/AED with the dummys we did it without the prompting, after we met both instructors approval, we used the prompting and several of us commented on feeling slowed down by it. This is strictly a personal observation, and not a negative on the units.

Having the prompt is a good thing, particularily if the person performing the AED is inexperienced, it takes them step by step all the way through the process.

The training dummys that we used also had a variety of differently configured problems for training, i.e. it simulated improper placement of the pads etc.

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/popcorn.gif Not to rain on anyone's parade or anything, I'm not real confident that a group buy will fly due to the need for the prescription, besides which, even if there were a large enough group among us, it is still a high $ item. My understanding from our safety folks is that we were able to get a pretty good discount, but it meant buying about 75-100 units. All that said, I would love to see a successful group purchase occur due to the potential for saving lives.

HTH
Lighthouse /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink2.gif
 

BentHeadTX

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Defibs,
I see those stupid things all day, come home and they show up on my computer monitor! Ahhhhhhh!
What I do to earn money for flashlights is calibrate/repair medical equipment. Defibs are interesting devices and with the AEDs coming out in the mid 90's life gets more interesting.
The cost of AEDs does not end after you purchase it. It requires annual calibration at a charge of $60~$125 so people like me can buy flashlights. The Physio Control Lifepak 12 uses a lithium one that gets replaced every 5 years...at a cost of $260. Welcome to the wonderful world of obscene parts costs. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rant.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif
I know Zoll makes an AED that looks like something out of Fisher-Price, it talks to you and operates so no need to worry about it. Here is the cool part...oh yeah... it uses twelve CR123A lithium batteries! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif Zoll charges $63 for 12 replacement batteries but we all know Surefire will be in CPF defibs.
If you buy a defib, don't EVER buy one from a company called MRL! Zoll used to be a bit crappy but MRL took the cake and ran with it.
Since I don't want to get in a looooooong boring discussion about biphasic defibs VS everything else... but the Lifepak, Physio-Control has ALWAYS been a great company to deal with, has excellent customer support and their stuff does not break. A grand is a decent price for a reliable defib, it should work well for you.
 

sledhead

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Philips Heartstart AED's are probably the most common. They are everywhere. Price has dropped considerably since this thread started!
 

raggie33

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i was so happy then sad. i did not notice this was a old post so i thought a lot of are older posted was back at first
 
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