Which McGizmo based McR20 Reflector for XM-L?

ShineOnYouCrazyDiamond · Apr 20, 2011

I am going to be installing a XM-L into a HA PD-S McGizmo light and I am trying to decide on the best reflector.

I have found that for XP-G leds the McR20S (Seoul) reflector produces the best beam.

But for XM-L leds I have been reading recently that reflectors designed for XR-E produce the best beam. That in mind anyone have a recommendation for which of the following may be best?

McR20
McR20J (Joker)
McR20S (Seoul)

donn_ · Apr 20, 2011

It'll be interesting to see replies to this question.

So far, the smallest reflector I have with an XM-L is inside the Malkoff M91, so I can't really tell what reflector it is. It measures about 16mm at the front, and it makes a very nice beam.

Other small reflector XM-Ls in my collection are a nailbender p60 (~26mm reflector) and a Mr. Bulk Chameleon (27mm PR reflector). They also make nice beams.

The emitter doesn't really become a thrower until it gets into a 36mm reflector or larger, so you'll be looking at a floody beam in a 20mm. One of these days, I'll get an XM-L Aleph LE, and try it in 19 and 20mm reflectors.

ShineOnYouCrazyDiamond · Apr 20, 2011

I am expecting more floody than a XP-G setup, which may or may not work out well in the long. But this is my first experimentation with XM-L leds and I have a few from a group buy and more from Cutter on their way. It took me a while to get the beam I like with a XP-G, so paying around with the XM-L should be fun.

I've got p60 drop-in blanks from KD similar to the one NB uses, and I think the SST-50 ones are the same ones used for the XM-L. We'll see how the experimentation goes....

fyrstormer · Apr 20, 2011

The XM-L is supposed to have a standard Lambertian radiation pattern, so either the McR-20 or the McR-20S should work fine; the only question is whether the XM-L can make use of the tiny extra bit of focal length the McR-20 has, and the only way to find that out is to test both reflectors. They don't cost very much.

Mettee · Apr 20, 2011

How much room is there on the inside of that light?

The McR20 is about .800 round by .600 deep....I am just thinking what other reflectors might work.

Sway · Apr 20, 2011

I'm in the same hunt for 20mm reflector/optic XM-L options and came across a few threads here and on other forums but noting really definitive yet. If you want a wide spot and flood the Lux IMS20 is not bad but I'm looking for a tight more intense spot.

I tried some plastic 20mm Seoul P4 (not sure of the brand) reflectors and they are just about all flood with less throw than the IMS20's

I have a few of the older Lux McR20's on the way to try out after reading they are a little better than the IMS20s.

I'm interested in what other have to say

Later
Kelly

easilyled · Apr 20, 2011

donn_ said:
...... One of these days, I'll get an XM-L Aleph LE, and try it in 19 and 20mm reflectors.

Where from? I didn't know that any were available.
What would you consider a safe maximum current to drive these at, bearing in mind how small the heatsinking is in Aleph LEs?

I have many Ti lights by TB and MM crying out for LEs with this impressive emitter.

donn_ · Apr 20, 2011

easilyled said:
Where from? I didn't know that any were available.
What would you consider a safe maximum current to drive these at, bearing in mind how small the heatsinking is in Aleph LEs?

I haven't seen them offered, but I expect nailbender or datiled could build one. I think 1A or 1.2A on high should work ok. I just got a Chameleon back from datiled, with an XM-L replacing the SSCP4. IIRC, the Chameleon tops out at 1A. It's plenty bright with the XM-L, and focuses beautifully in the 27mm reflector. It focuses even better (sharper) in the big head with a Maglite reflector. That head, as datiled put it, is a "throw monster."

ShineOnYouCrazyDiamond · Apr 20, 2011

I've chatted with datiLED and he still does make Aleph LEs, just more on request and keeping items in stock. I just modded a Makai LE an upped the driver to a 1.2A GDuP - it's tricky working in tight spaces but it's not that bad if you take your time. Donn_ - I still have that black Aleph compat head I bought from you along with the E2e-BK Round body. It's an XR-E with a McR19XR reflector so it could make a great candidate for a XM-L Aleph.

I have all three of the reflectors I mentioned in the 1st post (from when I was doign XP-G testing), so once I get the XM-L's in and I can build up a McGizmo heatsink I'll test the LED with each one and report back, hopefully with some beamshots. Mette's question about height is a curious one - for the PD-S with a stock McGizmo heatsink from the Shoppe and a McR20S reflector I found the best height was when I re-flowed a XPG onto a 8x1mm Shoppe mPCB, put that onto a 8x1mm copper slug and centered that onto the mPCB. It was interesting with the XP-G mod the to the McLuxIII-T I did recently that I needed a 2nd copper slug to get the height right as the PD lights have been pretty consistently just 1 slug.

ShineOnYouCrazyDiamond · Apr 20, 2011

easilyled said:
Where from? I didn't know that any were available.
What would you consider a safe maximum current to drive these at, bearing in mind how small the heatsinking is in Aleph LEs?

I have many Ti lights by TB and MM crying out for LEs with this impressive emitter.

Slightly OT but - the 1.2A GDuP in a Aleph in the Makai, even when running on primary CR123 didn't get hot enough to ever really be concerned. And I have fully potted the inside of the Aleph with AA to get the best heat transfer from the LED and driver. Since the XM-L has a touch lower Vf than a XPG it shouldn't be a concern really.

Sway · Apr 20, 2011

ShineOnYouCrazyDiamond said:
Mette's question about height is a curious one - for the PD-S with a stock McGizmo heatsink from the Shoppe and a McR20S reflector I found the best height was when I re-flowed a XPG onto a 8x1mm Shoppe mPCB, put that onto a 8x1mm copper slug and centered that onto the mPCB. It was interesting with the XP-G mod the to the McLuxIII-T I did recently that I needed a 2nd copper slug to get the height right as the PD lights have been pretty consistently just 1 slug.

It's been a while so don't hold me to this, the LuxIII and SSC P4 emitters have a taller height from the bottom of the slug to top of the plastic ring the reflector sets on than the Cree XP-G or XM-L package so the Crees will need a little propping up or the reflector will fit loose.....You could swap a LuxIII for a SSC P4 without much of a problem other than the focus being a little off but the Cree is a different pair of dice

Later
Kelly

donn_ · Apr 20, 2011

ShineOnYouCrazyDiamond said:
Slightly OT but - the 1.2A GDuP in a Aleph in the Makai, even when running on primary CR123 didn't get hot enough to ever really be concerned. And I have fully potted the inside of the Aleph with AA to get the best heat transfer from the LED and driver. Since the XM-L has a touch lower Vf than a XPG it shouldn't be a concern really.

In my experience, the Aleph LE, particularly with a brass or copper can, does a fine job of moving heat out to the mass of the head. My personal Mule is an EN coated aluminum head with an SST-50/1.2A Flupic, and although it will get warm with a long run, it isn't dangerously warm. I have two other SST-50 LEs, each with 2.8A Bi-Flupics, and each in an Aleph 3 head, and they are the same. I don't run any of them for long durations on burst, for obvious reasons.

saltytri · Apr 20, 2011

ShineOnYouCrazyDiamond said:
I am going to be installing a XM-L into a HA PD-S McGizmo light and I am trying to decide on the best reflector.

I have found that for XP-G leds the McR20S (Seoul) reflector produces the best beam.

But for XM-L leds I have been reading recently that reflectors designed for XR-E produce the best beam. That in mind anyone have a recommendation for which of the following may be best?

McR20

McR20J (Joker)

McR20S (Seoul)

See the beam shots at the end of post #1: http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?309957-Two-Tone-XM-L-Series-New-EDC

Mettee · Apr 20, 2011

ShineOnYouCrazyDiamond said:
I've chatted with datiLED and he still does make Aleph LEs, just more on request and keeping items in stock. I just modded a Makai LE an upped the driver to a 1.2A GDuP - it's tricky working in tight spaces but it's not that bad if you take your time. Donn_ - I still have that black Aleph compat head I bought from you along with the E2e-BK Round body. It's an XR-E with a McR19XR reflector so it could make a great candidate for a XM-L Aleph.

I have all three of the reflectors I mentioned in the 1st post (from when I was doign XP-G testing), so once I get the XM-L's in and I can build up a McGizmo heatsink I'll test the LED with each one and report back, hopefully with some beamshots. Mette's question about height is a curious one - for the PD-S with a stock McGizmo heatsink from the Shoppe and a McR20S reflector I found the best height was when I re-flowed a XPG onto a 8x1mm Shoppe mPCB, put that onto a 8x1mm copper slug and centered that onto the mPCB. It was interesting with the XP-G mod the to the McLuxIII-T I did recently that I needed a 2nd copper slug to get the height right as the PD lights have been pretty consistently just 1 slug.

I am thinking from a standpoint of what could possibly be adapted to fit in the space you have. Then the LED focus height is another adjustable point of concern, that can usually be solved fairly easy. If you can measure the rough area that you have inside the head for a reflector that would help with ideas.

easilyled · Apr 20, 2011

donn_ said:
.......... I have two other SST-50 LEs, each with 2.8A Bi-Flupics, and each in an Aleph 3 head, and they are the same. I don't run any of them for long durations on burst, for obvious reasons.

I also have a darkzero SST-50 bi-flupic LE. I have found that using this for more than about 20 seconds continuously on the high level causes the L.E to start blinking. darkzero said that this is a kind of thermal protection kicking-in.

I was wondering whether a straight swap of the SST-50 for an XM-L in this L.E would be all that is required to turn it into an XM-L bi-flupic which is correctly focused.

From what I have read, the XM-L may run a little cooler than the SST-50 as well as throwing further and putting out more overall light.

donn_ · Apr 20, 2011

I haven't seen any flickering at all, and I've run the 2.8s on burst longer than 20 seconds. What head are you using?

I don't think you want to drive an XM-L at 2.8A.

easilyled · Apr 20, 2011

donn_ said:
I haven't seen any flickering at all, and I've run the 2.8s on burst longer than 20 seconds. What head are you using?

I don't think you want to drive an XM-L at 2.8A.

I have tried it in 38mm heads (based on Aleph-3 proportions) as well as long 27mm heads. The blinking occurs in both heads. Maybe it takes longer than 20 seconds initially, but I can definitely induce it.

donn_ · Apr 20, 2011

Sounds like Titanium heads.

We're hijacking Shine's thread.

ShineOnYouCrazyDiamond · Apr 20, 2011

saltytri said:
See the beam shots at the end of post #1: http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?309957-Two-Tone-XM-L-Series-New-EDC

Nice link - I remembered that build thread but forgot the pics and reflector you used.

saltytri · Apr 20, 2011

I think it's a pretty nice beam. Maybe Troy will pipe up with his thoughts. He did post something but it was lost in the Great Crash.

Which McGizmo based McR20 Reflector for XM-L?

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