Why High Cost of Projector Lamps

FlashlightOCD

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Can anybody explain why the lamps used in video projection units [like a Proxima] cost hundreds of dollars? I know they put out a lot of lumens, but so does a car headlamp, what makes the projector lamp so special [and expensive]?
 

Chris M.

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Short answer: they are finely crafted miniature discharge lamps specially constructed to fine tolerances. Either high pressure mercury, or short-arc metal halide.

Longer answer: every detail is constructed to extremely tight tolerances to work with the projector`s optics and produce the brightest, most even spread of light accross the projected image. The colour, size and shape of the arc needs to be as accurate as possible otherwise there would be dark or colour-tinted areas to the picture. So each arc-tube is precision made - the shape, size and composition of the glass envelope, the electrodes and the fill material / pressure (whether it be mercury, halide salts, etc) are all critical. They take serious amounts of development and research, always ongoing, and the costs of those excersizes need to be covered too. Don`t forget the fact that usually for each new projector, a whole different lamp needs to be designed. Finally when you compare them to regular bulbs, the production volumes are very small so all set-up costs (which are already very high) are spread accross relatively few sold units.

Sprinkle in a touch of Bic Razor/Lexmark Ink-cartridge Syndrome and that`s why they cost what they do.

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/eek.gif
 

iddibhai

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replacement lamps for automotive HID run few hundreds of dollars on the low end to a couple grand.
 

FlashlightOCD

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Thanks for the info Chris M,

I may have posted this in the wrong forum, but I was trying to convey that lumens alone would not explain the high cost since a regular car headlamp cost less than $50 and will produce lots of light.

I do have to question why each projector needs it's own custom made lamp, one might think they could settle on a few sucessfull lamp designs and build around those to help bring the price down.

I wait for the day that projectors replace TV's, but with lamps costing as much as a new Color TV it will be a while.
 

hpcjerry

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A lot of current models get around 3000 hours out of a lamp, some of them even run to 6000 hours. If your normal tv usage is just evenings and weekends, a front projection system can easily be cheaper and look better than a rear-projection tv. For example, the InFocus X1 sells for under $1K and has an excellent (Faroujda) video scaler for its native 800x600 and a claimed contrast ratio off 2000:1. Couple that with a big (80+" wide) Da-Lite High-Power model B retractable, retro-reflective screen for under $200 shipped and as long as you have some amount of light control (pull the shades level) the picture quality should be about as good as a high-def RPTV in the $2400 range and the picture size will be significantly larger. I believe the lamp is rated for either 2K or 3K hours and is in the $300-$400 retail range for replacement. At 3 hours of viewing, 365 days per year that is about two years before you need a new bulb. Plus bulb-life is measured by when the brightness reaches 50% of initial, it typically falls off rapidly in the first 200 hours and then is a gradual slope towards 50%. With a bright screen like the High-Power you could probably live way past 50% light loss and stretch another thousand hours out of it. That's what I did with my JVC G1000 projector, bulb life was rated at 1000 hours, but my screen is bright enough that I took the last bulb out to 2000 hours and didn't really miss the extra brightness.
 

Saaby

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However, it is my understanding that using these past their rated life osn't the brightest thing to do because they can *POP* at which time you need a new bulb *and* projector.
 

Al_Havemann

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Not only do they cost a bundle but reliability is a real problem too. We have an Infocus 7000 projector, it's a high end, 2000 lumen unit with lots of inputs and cost a ton of money (almost $7k). We purchased it for court room presentations and we've used it maybe 150 hours total since new.

In that 150 (or less!) hours we've blown 2 bulbs and are now on our third. And I do mean BLOWN, as in shattered, as in pieces everywhere, as in turning it over and watch the glass bits pour out. One of those blowups happened in the court room with smoke pouring out of the projector. It completely trashed the attorneys closing argument. He doesn't trust me to run a presentation again and prefers to do without them despite their effectiveness.

These bulbs cost over $500.00 bucks each!!, and we get crap life from them. We brought this to the attention of Infocus and sent the projector back for a checkup but got what amounts to a shrug, a bill for the checkup (nothing wrong) and a new bulb. I simply don't have the budget to replace a $500.00 bulb every 30-40 hours or as happened with one of the bulbs, 8 hours.

When I'm doing a presentation in court, things have to work, period, no BS. If I blow a presentation, the attorney is going to fry me. There's no such thing as "not my fault", to an attorney when his presentation get screwed up by equipment failure. Everything's my fault if something goes wrong.

This is the last go around for the projector, we won't use it in court again, just for training and when this bulb blows, it gets scrapped. It's also the last go around for Infocus the company, we wouldn't buy from them again.

They told us that they don't make the bulbs, and that may be true but their support is poor and with the projector only a couple of months old, they should have replaced the first bulb at no charge. When the second blew after only eight hours we got the same "don't care" treatment.

I have since purchased a 40" plasma panel for presentations. It may be expensive and big, but not as expensive as a ruined presentation to the jury and not as big as the problem I'd face if the projector nukes again.

I wouldn't buy another projector.

Al
 

iddibhai

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at my school we've had troubles with infocus which individual depts often buy due to low pricing. the media dept where i work (does the a/v for all school events, etc) has sharps all the way around. pricey, but hasn't let us down. ditto for the christie ones.
 

hpcjerry

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Saaby, a lot depends on how the projector is treated. Longer viewing periods with less on/off cycles tends to increase longevity before either simple failure or a real explosion. Good ventilation, clean air, etc also make a difference. But, in the rare case of an bulb explosion, it is even rarer that the optics or any other vital part of the projector will be damaged because the chances of an actual explosion are more related to mishandling or a manufacturing defect which can theoretically cause an explosion at any time -- not just after running the lamp beyond its rated time. Therefore the projectors are designed to withstand such an event with little to no damage. Although, there are some projector designs where running them with a non-operational bulb for a while (say 30+ minutes) can damage the ballast which is at least as expensive as the bulb.

Al, your experience is far from ordinary. You might try asking about it in one of the projector forums at www.avsforum.com -- from your description it sounds like the bulbs were contaminated in some way. The most common means of contamination is human skin oil (fingerprints) that gets on the bulb inadvertently during installation. There are other ways for a bulb to be contaminated, typically from junk in the air. I assume smoking is barred in the courtroom, but what about everywhere else the projector may spend time like a storage area and in transit from/to storage or between courtrooms? It is certainly possible that your bulbs came with manufacturing defects, in which case infant mortality should be covered under the bulbs warranty - that is unless you let the bulbs sit on the shelf while the warranty expired without test running them for a couple of hundred hours first.

Also, for what it is worth, a $7K infocus is just at the top of the low-end. Mid-range tends to run with an MSRP up to $20K and high-end stretchs up to around $100K for theater-sized venues or bill gate's living room. For example, Christie Digital is a player in the $15K-$60K range where we are talking 10K+ lumens and very high color fidelity (3-chip DLP).
 

jtivat

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Al, your projector has to have a problem or like jerry said you have contaminated the lamp. We have over 30 small projectors in our rental stock and it is very rare to blow a lamp, they will usually start to flicker when they are going bad. Saaby you are right it is not a good idea to run these lamps past there rated hours as they will blow and do damage to other parts. Now as far as the first question that is actually cheap, dealer cost for the lamp housing of a Digital Projection Lightning 28SX is $5,435.00 yes that is just the lamp and it only last 750 hours!
 

iddibhai

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i'd bet large classroom/lecture venues. we have a 550 seat lecture hall, with three christie vista projectors, either s or x 3 or 5. the replacement lamps run about 3000 apiece. and the movie screening room has another high end digital christie which i haven't had the chance to see yet.
 

jtivat

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[ QUOTE ]
FlashlightOCD said:
[ QUOTE ]
jtivat said:
Digital Projection Lightning 28SX

[/ QUOTE ]

16,000 Lumens? What is that projector typically used for?

[/ QUOTE ]

Large venue shows like rock concerts from 1,000 to 20,000 people on screens from 10.5' x 14' to 18'x 24'. We even double stack these units for brightness and redundancy. We don't do rock most of our work is corporate.
 

Saaby

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Just to let you know where your tax dollars are going.

Our high school has about 10 projectors. They could probably get by with 3 plasma panels and 1 projector which would likely be cheaper over the long run but steeper initial investment. At least they're smart enough to do most their printing on lasers...
 

hpcjerry

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If they move them from room to room, then plasmas ain't the way to go because they can be delicate. Many of them won't survive even a mild shock if they are horizontal.
 
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