High CRI neutral... What are the odds?

Neutral (4300-4900K) high (92+) CRI emitter.

What are the odds on that?? Is it possible for XP-G?

I'm just not fond of the current warm high CRI XP-G. Any hope? .

Thanks.

Not sure if there is hope, but I am definitely one who is not liking the current trend toward very warm warms. It makes everything look like there is a blazing fireplace providing back light. I am leaning more and more towards neutral (~4500K) every day, as my personal tint preference.

It is possible, but so far only Nichia has LEDs with those characteristics AFAIK, and they have larger dies than XP-G. This is the type of LED used in McGizmo's Sundrop for example.

My holy grail: XP-G, 5B, 93 typical CRI. Once (if) this becomes available, I'd only update as the lumen count doubles (probably within a different emitter family at that point).

Getting the feeling this thread will be moved to the LED section soon...

-Jas.

JA(me)S said:

My holy grail: XP-G, 5B, 93 typical CRI. Once (if) this becomes available, I'd only update as the lumen count doubles (probably within a different emitter family at that point).

Getting the feeling this thread will be moved to the LED section soon...

-Jas.

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Nearly. I'd like the same, but an XM-L. Need more lumens!

I'd be good with anything 4000-4500, with 4000 being my ideal.

It's very possible - you can get them already, just not XP-G. The Nichia 119 H1 LEDs have a CRI Ra >92 and have a 4500k minimum. Alternatively, Nichia also manufacture a Nichia 083B. These have a typical CRI of 96 and a colour temp of 5500k; amazing LEDs.

Cree now make the XPG in high CRI but in a warmer temp (around 3000k I think). Nice but not really what you want colour wise. Benefit of the XP-G is they can take a lot more current.

Bass said:

The Nichia 119 H1 LEDs have a CRI Ra >92 and have a 4500k minimum. Alternatively, Nichia also manufacture a Nichia 083B. These have a typical CRI of 96 and a colour temp of 5500k; amazing LEDs.

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Not quite. The standard Nichia 119 H1 is around 3300K. The 4500K version that McGizmo uses are special ordered by him from the absolute very top of the CCT bin. Kenji made me a quad 119 H1 that sits around 3400K. The 083B is a lot higher, but I believe 5500K is still top-bin CCT and not what you can expect from every emitter.

Nichia just announced the 183A series, which are so new there aren't even datasheets for them yet. They are listed on the website here. The NS6W183A-H1 shows a min CRI of 85 (the same min rating that the 119 H1 is rated at) so we can probably expect 92 CRI typical. The color coordinates of 0.344,0.355 calculate to approximately 5053K. I would imagine we'll see bins of the 183A that go 6000K+.

calipsoii said:

The color coordinates of 0.344,0.355 calculate to approximately 5053K.

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I spent some time at Nichia's site and looked at their Chromaticity Diagram - but am evidently too dense to figure out how you did this calculation. Please share, feeling dumb is unsettling...

- Jas.

JA(me)S said:

I spent some time at Nichia's site and looked at their Chromaticity Diagram - but am evidently too dense to figure out how you did this calculation. Please share, feeling dumb is unsettling...

- Jas.

Click to expand...

Heh, I spent several hours one evening trying to learn how to convert CIE 1934 coordinates (x,y) to CCT and still haven't the foggiest how it's done. After seeing some of the formulas I was content just accepting that it's possible.

The best article I found on the subject is: http://www.marcelpatek.com/color.html. He has an excellent graphic 1/3 of the way down the page labeled Figure 6 which gives an idea at a glance.

The most useful utility I've found to do it is here: http://www.markhunter.com/writings/articles/chromaticity.asp

Cheers!

The problem is there no place to buy the High CRI High CCT Nichia,
even if you figured them out, still won't help.

Unobtanium.....

calipsoii said:

Heh, I spent several hours one evening trying to learn how to convert CIE 1934 coordinates (x,y) to CCT and still haven't the foggiest how it's done. After seeing some of the formulas I was content just accepting that it's possible.

Click to expand...

Usually I find solace in claiming ignorance over stupidity. After spending time with the formulas discussed, I'll accept stupidity - and claim ignorance is bliss!

I think I still have just enough control over my salivary glands to type in the x,y coordinates on Mr. Hunter's chromaticity calculator without shorting the keyboard (but it's a close call). Links much appreciated and bookmarked.

Thanks calipsoii

-Jas.

The current batch of high cri seouls at Mouser are very cool white for a neutral. way above 4000K IMO.

T2 flux Bin 88-91 lumens per watt, 93 CRI.

http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Seoul-Semiconductor/S42180-06-T2-EL/?qs=jv7ULIbIBgMxKCbV4CUlbw==

FYI. gotta be careful buying neutral seouls now, some are 93CRI and some are 80CRI. S42180 are 93 CRI and S42180H are 80 CRI.

The labeling is so confusing. I think I have a high cri, N42180L-S2, but not sure. Don't see it in the data sheet.

MWClint said:

The current batch of high cri seouls at Mouser are very cool white for a neutral. way above 4000K IMO.

T2 flux Bin 88-91 lumens per watt, 93 CRI.

http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Seoul-Semiconductor/S42180-06-T2-EL/?qs=jv7ULIbIBgMxKCbV4CUlbw==

FYI. gotta be careful buying neutral seouls now, some are 93CRI and some are 80CRI. S42180 are 93 CRI and S42180H are 80 CRI.

Click to expand...

dirtech said:

The labeling is so confusing. I think I have a high cri, N42180L-S2, but not sure. Don't see it in the data sheet.

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yeah seoul numbering scheme is wacky.. you'd think N=neutral, W=Warm..but nope.
N=Warm
S=Neutral
W=Cool

42810 = bare emitter
42182 = star

S1,S2,T1,T2 are the common flux bins

H=not High CRI (yep more confusion)

L=?
Have not seen that one.

Here's their current in stock offerings for bare emittors. the $6.90 ones are 93 high cri, the $4.87 is the 80 CRI, T2 is the highest flux bin 88-91
http://www.mouser.com/Optoelectroni...Zscv7?P=1z0yqxjZ1z0yr4h&Keyword=42180&FS=True

none of mouser's current star offerings are high cri.

and all of them still have the typical seoul yellow corona around the hotspot. its really the only drawback of these leds. using 3 or 4 in a single head blends it out.
been using the seouls for so long i dont even notice it anymore. excellent skin tones from these leds.

MWClint said:

The current batch of high cri seouls at Mouser are very cool white for a neutral. way above 4000K IMO.

T2 flux Bin 88-91 lumens per watt, 93 CRI.

http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Seoul-Semiconductor/S42180-06-T2-EL/?qs=jv7ULIbIBgMxKCbV4CUlbw%3d%3d

FYI. gotta be careful buying neutral seouls now, some are 93CRI and some are 80CRI. S42180 are 93 CRI and S42180H are 80 CRI.

Click to expand...

That sounds pretty good to me (93 CRI and 4000K +) (up to 5100K is tolerable), but I don't do mods.

I would want a triple or quad in one light for good output. Does anyone make a triple or Quad head, or drop-in with the SSC P4? .... some optics or TIRs would be a big plus!

I was told the die is bigger than a Cree XP-G, so maybe you can't put 3 or 4 together in a head.

The ZebraLight SC51 with high CRI is using the Rebel emitter, 4000K with CRI of 90. I'm not aware of any readily available emitter that is a true high CRI with that 'neutral' of a tint. Keep in mind that CRI numbers / ratings are like other ratings - don't get caught up with ratings differences between 85-90 or 90-93, there is enough variation from batch to batch, or emitter to emitter, to make the raw number only a guide.

I have a nailbender P60 drop in with a high CRI SST-50 that is rated at '85', but, like other numbers for the SST-50/90's are very conservative, and compared to other high CRI lights I've compared it to it seems to give a broader color rendition than emitters rated much higher. Like other commonly available high CRI emitters, though, it has an incandescent-like color of 3000k.

I just received some modded Cree XP-G WW High CRI emitters. The tint is pretty much exactly like one of the WW Quarks I got from 4Sevens. In a direct comparison, given the same color temperature, I couldn't tell a difference between the ~80 CRI WW emitter and the ~90 CRI WW emitter. To my eyes the lights (and colors) look exactly the same, despite the higher CRI of one of the emitters.