Please help the Po Po. S2 vs R2 vs???

Hey guys, think I've narrowed it down to an Olight M20 or M20S. Also can;t decide between which LED to go for. I've learned from you guys that the R2 has the best throw, which is something I really like. Was wondering if you can give me some insight on the other variations of the M20 led choices. Cant find much info on the S2, and not sure what other LED's are available. Please, feel free to flood me with info.
I am willing to sacrifice a little throw for better runtimes and some spill and even more lumens if its recommended. I'm starting to think a little more about runtimes, as today I was clearing a fairly large area, and noticed it affected my cr123's to the point they needed replacement (they've been run for a month or so already). I am currently using a Deal Extreme R2 drop in with my surefire G2Z, not bad, but wondering if its a good example of the R2 or not.
Again, feel free to help me out with suggestions. I am a LEO and like throw, but can appreciate some spill as well. Also, Im interested in two other areas as well, 1. Any other body suggestions like the combat styles of the surefires, like the style, looking for something new, and 2. I am leaning toward the non side switch M20's as I feel the side switch may get accidentally hit in the un opportune time, any feedback or experiences?
THANk YOU all and stay safe.

First the "R2" designation is not the LED type, but only a bin number of a type of LED. It might be an XRE-R2 or XPE-R2 or even maybe XPG-R2.
So, to get to the meat of the issue, we need to look at the type of LED it is
For example, if you have a limited size of the flashlight head, such as in a P60-style drop in flashlight like you have, the XRE is going to have the most throw. The XPE will also have pretty decent throw.
These are smaller die LED packages, so they can throw further with a small reflector. As the LED die gets bigger, you need a larger reflector to throw as far. So it is the relationship of LED die size vs the reflector size which is going to have a big impact on throw distance. And this is a big factor when your flashlight head size is limited. The bigger LEDs like the XPG, and the even bigger ones like XML or the SST are bigger dies, and they can throw far if you have a bigger reflector for them. But in small reflectors, they perform more floody, but alot of light in that wide flood. Not real far for distance though.
So that's your first thing to look at. How much throw you want, and what LED will be able to give that to you in the head size of your flashlight.
All the LED types are "good", but they each have their strong points, so you need to use the one that meets your needs.

As for run time, it depends on the efficiency of the LED and how hard you have to drive it with current. The harder you drive it, the faster it depletes the batteries.
The older LEDs like the XRE are less efficient, but they give more throw in the small heads, so they might be good for your use if you want alot of throw. The XML is one of the more efficient LEDs out there, but it is only about 10% more efficient than the older LEDs, and you need to drive it hard to get the most out of it, so run time might suffer, and you will be driving it to higher power levels in a small reflector which will give you a lot of flood, and not much throw distance, and it will deplete your batteries faster.
So again, it's picking the right LED for the needs and the size of the light package you are putting it in.

If you want good throw from an XRE in a quality durable drop-in, the Malkoff M60 is an excellent and well-proven drop-in for that application.
If you can accept a bit less throw, but wider spill beam in a Malkoff, the Malkoff M61 is very good for that.
Both will fit right in to your existing light. They are very popular with LEO and military/tactical people because of their performance and durability/reliability.

If you want a P60 drop-in compatible host, your existing G2z is fine, and you wouldn't have to replace that unless you just want to.
The Olight M20/M20S(as far as I know) is not a P60 compatible host, so you won't have the ability to use the drop-in light engines in that host.

My opinion is that you should keep your Surefire host, and get a really good drop-in for it, such as one of the Malkoff drop-ins suggested above.

Hello Grandeson,
Your confusion stems from the point I raise exactly in this thread: http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?264149-Stop-referring-to-LEDs-by-their-bin-code

The R2 is most likely a Cree XR-E or XP-E LED, which has a smaller die size and lower output than the newer R5 and S2, which are probably Cree XP-G LEDs and have a larger die size but higher output. R2, R5, and S2 are bin codes and refer to the overall efficiency of the LED, essentially how bright a particular LED is when powered at a known setting. XR-E, XP-E, XP-G and XM-L refer to the model of LED, which has the most impact on the beam shape or pattern.

Small die size is desirable when throw is important, but larger die sizes tend to be more efficient. In other words, you will generally get higher output but less throw, or lower output but more throw. I know that it doesn't seem to add up but it is because you cannot focus a beam as tightly in the same size reflector package with a larger die LED. The larger the die the larger the reflector must be to get a similar focus.

The M20 is a very nice light, with a good amount of output and very nice throw. Olight makes pretty solid lights and they specialize in the tactical market. I think you should also compare it to the Maelstrom G5 or X7, which has lately become one of my favorite high output lights. The G5 is designed for better throw and the X7 is designed for higher output but more flood, but otherwise they are identical. Smaller and a bit less bright is the Quark Turbo, which, like the Maelstrom, has gotten rave reviews from YouTube reviewer Nutnfancy (go check his videos out if you like).

For what it's worth I do not like the side switch on the Olights. Not that it is easy to accidentally click (I've never done it) but it is hard to index and press when you actually do want to switch outputs. The twist-to-select of the regular model is preferable, in my opinion.

The S2 is the latest bin of xpg, it's 7% more efficiant than the R5. Depending on your grip preference and how you like to carry your Surefire lights, the C2 and Z2 are both excellent body styles and encourage the cigar grip for use with a handgun. I like the C2 because it has a clip and I have one that's bored out from overready.com for 18650 rechargeables.
I find AW 18650 gives me alot more runtime than two cr123 batteries.

I am so confused right now that I am going to have to try and understand this again later. Thanks for the help guys, and keep it coming, but I really want to cry right now....

Eeek sorry, let's simplify. Olight M20 is a great pick for you, also a light like the Eagletac T20c2, Fenix TK15, or 4sevens Quark TurboX.

As for the LED's the larger the led, the floodier they get, and to make a larger emitter you'll need a large reflector.
Small emitters are ; xre, xpe, xpg, s2, s3
Large emitters are MCE, sst50, sst90, P7, XML

So for a holster able or pocketable light to have some throw, stick to a smaller emitter. If something with a three inch wide reflector is okay then go with a large emitter

thanks carpentry, i guess i need it in very laymans terms. The smaller holster able is important to me, so i will check your other suggestions as well. i think i like the old version of the m20 head design as opposed to the side switch to change outputs. the maelstrom g5's idea of leaving the bezel loose for different outputs doesnt sit well with me, so that design is out. thanks guys, so much more intelligent and friendly group than the watch forum ive frequented. keep up the info.

Welcome and welcome to CPF, hope you stick around there's good people here and there's couple different EDC (every day carry) items covered in depth.
I'm an Edmonton maintenance carpenter and I have alot admiration and respect for police. Mostly because of the overtime in board and secures from drug busts but also protection while we board it up

I'm not sure were you are but you could meet up with some nearby flashaholics to show you some things first hand or list local stores. :thumbsup:
Have a great day :welcome: I've been here since July and I'm still learning.

For Quarks in your line of work, the Tactical User interface would be the best choice. Program two modes in, bezel tight for one mode and loosen even a quarter turn for the other

I like the Quatk TurboX because it's 450 lumens and is good for the 60feet or less (which is the tallest ceiling I need to check)

If you are interested in Olight M20, you should also take a look at EagleTac T20C2 MkII. It is cosmetically and dimensionally similar to M20, and offers a variety of drop-in choices, including XR-E R2 as well as XP-G S2, so you can switch between them to suit your needs, as well as a generous selection of other accessories. Also, if I remember correctly, Warriors tend to be floodier and offers slightly less throw than T20C2 using the same emitter.

If you want an immense amount of throw out of a pocketable tactical light, you can always look at ArmyTek Predator and Lumintop TD-15. Both of those lights have twice the amount of throw compared to Warrior and T20C2 while still giving decent amount of spill. Maelstrom G5 S2 is another option, but it doesn't offer as much throw as Predator or TD-15.

Also, 7% of increase in efficacy between XP-G R5 and S2 is barely noticeable. Some people have also reported that getting lights with S2 emitters is like getting into a "tint lottery"--there is a good chance that you might end up with an emitter with green tint as opposed to cool white.

The nice thing about the Eagletac T20c2 is it's upgradeable. You can buy different modules. I have the smaller
P20c2 and love it.

X2 on the Eagle tac T20c2

oh heck...get a Malkoff MD2 with a M61 dropin and a high/low ring....guaranteed the most simple functional and rugged light made with lots of holster options. The high/low ring is perfect for writing tickets when you don't need lots of light or for reading at close range. I own half a dozen for my staff. Better yet ....splurge for a McGizmo Haiku if you can squeeze that in your budget. I have had several Olights too and they are very nice but tend to have too many moveable parts to malfunction. Malkoff...cheap, rugged, and quite simply put....the best general purpose flashlight ever made. I have had over a hundred various and assorted Surefire lights and I always go back to the simple Malkoff MD2.

ok, you guys are making me sit home in a corner with a thumb in my mouth, crying about what to do. I feel like I should take the night off, stay home and not answer the phone. I love the quick responses and high amount of input. Your reasons for suggestions are great so far, and please keep them coming. i will say this, if the head has to stay loose for a specific input, even a quarter of a turn, I am not interested. My OCD will definitely not allow me to clear a room with a quarter of a turn loosened head, just the way it is, sorry. Again, a head like an older M20 that is loosened then tightened is fine.
Here is a little of what I am leaning toward.
1. Good throw, but still with some spill, after searching for more of a thrower, I've realized over the last couple of tours that close range work, ie car stops, some flood is actuallly beeficial for lighting up a bigger portion of the area on initial contact. I love nice throw, but some spill is wanted too.
2. Good tint, from info relayed from you guys that a warmer tint is better for color recognition (i think thats what the consensus is)
3. Good runtime, I really am looking for at least 2+ hours on high output.
4. CR123's. At this time I am only interested on lights running off CR123's If it runs off others as well that is fine, but it must be CR123 friendly.
5. Size, "its not the size of the boat, its the motion in the ocean" thats what i tell my wife anyway. LOL, really something along the lines of a 2 cell Cr123 with a not huge bezel is what I am looking for. Duty belt friendly.
6. If moddable, that would be great. No one piece proprietary pieces please
7. Rogers Ring would be nice
8. Under $100 street price is desireable.
9. Early retirement button. If I get tired of my job, i can hit the button, it makes the CR123 batteries explode and take off a pinky finger! LOL LOL!!!

Let the even more suggestions begin.

LoL, early retirement button, can it be in the shape of the (Staples that was Easy) button?
Fenix TK15 has a side switch but only for mode changes, no early retirement button.

How do you feel about strobe or disco modes? :naughty:

No real love for a strobe. Think it may just get in the way. But just checked out the lumintop td 15 and td15x. WOW, one of them may do the job, Im actually feeling the 15x, seems like less throw than the 15, but still enough and quite a bit more spill for more usefulness. im still looking, but they just moved up to the front of the line. Any idea of the best price/place to get them from?

Check the dealers corner of CPF marketplace, I think there's a seller there and they may have a coupon code going too

ok, i see they have options for either a UI with high/med/lo/strobe or with a high/med/lo only. Not sure which way to go, but if it had a hidden strobe, then that would be perfect. If any ideas let me know, or a similar light with that UI, thanks, almost there folks, almost there.

police?

get the one that doesn't work so you can't find me when i'm hiding from you

sorry, i had to! good luck!

thanks for doing what you do.

hi again guys. question about the UI of the eagletac T20C2 MKII. when changing modes, is it just loosening the head to get to different modes, or is it loosen and tighten back? I just dont think I can get used to having the bezel/head half loose if I want the light output on Medium. I've also learned that the title should be changed, since the XM-L led has gotten nice reviews as well. ALso, I do like the fact that the EagleTac's are upgradeable, not sure if others are as well. Thank You all