Exaggeration of Output and Run times

Could someone explain why Govt organizations like Consumer protection agency etc have not told Flashlight COYS to be more accurate in terms of information concerning Output and Burn Times about their torches? Some of the claims are close to being fraudulent and misleading! Why cant the COYS simply state X specific amount of Lumens after X specific hours and so on? Example;woodsmonkey.com review of the Princeton Byte...Also I consider the worst offender is Princeton Tec. 150hrs+ for the AMP 5.0 including Moon Mode? Please tell me what is moon mode? I'm an experienced night hiker and I can tell you on a cloudless night not in a forest, one doesn't need a torch, unless stopping to read a map with a map compass.Thanks for tolerating my Joe Pesci posting....

Honestly...

... I don't think many people outside CPF care. Besides, it's to the manufacturers advantage to overstate their brightness & runtime since most flashlight consumers lack even a basic understanding of flashlights but still have to make selection in their local sporting good/supermarket.
So my guess is that usually for non-flashaholics either the cheaper flashlights win out or the flashlight with the most impressive stats on the package.

I've seen people try to impress me with their 5$ multi-LED light even after they saw my 500 ANSI Lumen monster... so, I don't think people realize they're being lied to and most of them don't even care (belive me, I've asked.) Agencies like consumer protection often don't act unless they get a sufficient amount of complaints. Flashlights are unfortunately not considered an important purchase. Baby seats and cars get much more attention from these guys.

Big Red One said:

Could someone explain why Govt organizations like Consumer protection agency etc have not told Flashlight COYS to be more accurate in terms of information concerning Output and Burn Times about their torches? Some of the claims are close to being fraudulent and misleading! Why cant the COYS simply state X specific amount of Lumens after X specific hours and so on? Example;woodsmonkey.com review of the Princeton Byte...Also I consider the worst offender is Princeton Tec. 150hrs+ for the AMP 5.0 including Moon Mode? Please tell me what is moon mode? I'm an experienced night hiker and I can tell you on a cloudless night not in a forest, one doesn't need a torch, unless stopping to read a map with a map compass.Thanks for tolerating my Joe Pesci posting....

Click to expand...

I certainly agree with the spirit of the post and hopefully the ANSI standards that were released in 2009 are one of the best steps forward and consumer pressure (voting with your wallet) will cause more manufacturers to sign up.

While I haven't done much hiking at night recently I would still recommend carry a decent rugged and bright light even if it is a cloudless night not in a forest. There are more dangers out there than just losing your way home. I'd rather have it and not need it, rather than need it and not have it.

Thanks guys for the replies.I would like to comment on some points discussed. Yes I agree overstating times and output are ways to entice buyers to their products but I believe all ppl aren't that superficial. People in jobs like the Police, Firefighters, Search and Rescue,Armed Forces etc definitely rely on flashlights for their survival so would buy whats proven to work for them and via feedback from others. Yes standards do exist, ANSI/NEMA FL 1 Standards . Yet when the torches are tested in the field, those who comply do so 99% of the time but not as stated in my original thread in terms of output/runtimes......Finally I do carry a torch while night hiking ,but I still would like to know what standard is "Moon-Mode" stated by Princeon Tec and Fenix-E01 ;
"

21-hour working time (11-hour sun mode plus 10-hour moon mode)"
Any help?
​

Glancing at the runtime graph for the E01, it looks like they define the sun mode as from 100-50% of the brightness with a fresh battery, while moon mode is from 50-0%.

More generally, moon mode is an extremely low output option, usually under 1 lumen. Uses may include going to the bathroom at night without the light waking up whoever's sleeping next to you.

ANSI standards are a good start but still give a very unrealistic picture when it comes to unregulated lights. It would be nice if lights had a runtime graph on the packaging to give a true perspective.

I go to motorcycle rallies where over a thousand people camp out for a couple of nights, plenty of flashlights in use there! One guy was showing off his LED Lensor and I asked a few questions about it - he said it only had 1 mode and that the batteries could run for over 100 hours. That was a pretty bright light, but there is no way that the output I saw could continue for 100 hours on one battery, or at half that brightnes, or at quarter of that brightness - I'm doubtful that it could run that long at 1/10 that brightness. Most likely the light was unregulated and would be down to under 1% output before the alkaline batteries were completely dead.
I said that 100 hours seemed too good to be true and asked if he had tested it out - he said he hadn't. He also mentioned that he had been told (by the salesman) that LED Lensor was considered to be pretty much the top flashlight brand in the world.

No sign of exaggeration or buyers being mislead here . . .

There are new standards. See this and click on the link.

Bill

Those are the same standards we have been discussing. ANSI

LOL , sounds like one of those Harley owners :wave: , ya know , the best bike in the world! , All American made blah blah blah waffle waffle waffle dribble dribble dribble .

But just Dumb

Paul----:thumbsup:

KiwiMark said:

I go to motorcycle rallies where over a thousand people camp out for a couple of nights, plenty of flashlights in use there! One guy was showing off his LED Lensor and I asked a few questions about it - he said it only had 1 mode and that the batteries could run for over 100 hours. That was a pretty bright light, but there is no way that the output I saw could continue for 100 hours on one battery, or at half that brightnes, or at quarter of that brightness - I'm doubtful that it could run that long at 1/10 that brightness. Most likely the light was unregulated and would be down to under 1% output before the alkaline batteries were completely dead.
I said that 100 hours seemed too good to be true and asked if he had tested it out - he said he hadn't. He also mentioned that he had been told (by the salesman) that LED Lensor was considered to be pretty much the top flashlight brand in the world.

No sign of exaggeration or buyers being mislead here . . .

Click to expand...

I can understand that the average joe doesnt care about the numbers. But this cant be an excuse for fraud.
If a manufacturer lies about nutrition facts, it can be sued.
If I state that my torch can reach 1million lumes for 30 days and it's a lie, I have to be stopped.

That was a malpractice once used in cars MPG or in mobile phones stanby and talking times. Then the regulations came and now we have a more objective view. Obviously if the standard has some leaks, the manufacturers can take advantage of it, but at least products are comparable between them.

What it seemed like people were doing before was to just advertise the lumens from the bare emitter, not what was actually making it out of the light. Sometimes they would just put down the theoretical output for the LED without actually even taking into account how hard they were driving it and taking out reflector losses.
As bad as it is now, I think it has become much better. When I first got into lights and such, Surefire was probably the only company that didn't overestimate their brightness numbers, in fact they usually underestimated it. Now it seems like most of the lights that are talked about here on CPF are relatively close to being the correct output. At least if I hear about a new Fenix light coming out that is advertised at 200 lumens, I don't automatically think that it is probably actually only about 120 lumens, and run time isn't even close to what they advertise. I trust them to be somewhat correct, and 6 years ago I never would have trusted any of them.