another new guy with some same ole questoins, have no idea what to do...

I really am, sorry for asking stupid questoins over products...
I just dont know who else to ask...
First of all, I am really new to high end flashlights. I have a streamlight and a bunch of maglights and I couldn't tell you much beyond that.
I HAVE been using search extremely liberally and I still cannot find exactly what I want to know.
A few friends of mine have surefire lights and I am big on Made in America so that is what I would like to get.

I am looking for a flashlight that I can easily carry (I hate bulk), don't want to spend more than 160 bucks, and can use in conjunction with a handgun incase something goes bump in the night. (for use at home)

I live in Illinois so carrying a handgun is not an option for me so my pal says to carry a flashlight and use it to blind a guy and then bash him with it; he told me he will teach me some techniques (he is on a tactical type team of some sort for work, prison bureau, and his light is price way out of my income bracket)

What do you guys suggest?
I have looked at TONS of lights and the more I look the more lost I get.

Originally looked at the Z2-S because it was 160 lumens and priced at around 100 bucks, it had the strobe which I figured might come in handy (have had run-ins with drunks at bars and figured it might help me if they actually started at me; I always get out of there before something stupid happens though)

Then I looked at the C2 LED, and I liked it because it had a clip but its only 120 (I have no idea if this is underpowered or not)

Then finally I started looking at their new 6PX lights w/ the 200 lumens
w/ momentary activation and the one with click (almost bought this one and some combat rings)


I also looked at that 6P Defender w/ led.... I didnt know what to make of the click on and click off if I were using it in a home invasion... (I dont know, it might be stupid over-thinking these things)


My questions include:
(aside from what light you recommend)
1)what do you make of that combat grip (where the light has a smaller diameter in the middle)?
2)How many lumens do I really need for my intended use? (I keep hearing more is better but at some point I just gotta be realistic)
3)Do I really need a "strike bezel?"
4) Tailcaps, momentary on or click to stay on?
5) invest in a pouch or just carry in pocket (its kind of why I liked the one with the clip)


I do not plan on doing anything custom with it (although I love tinkering)
I might put a different LED in down the road but it is not in the works now.
I have bought things from Tactical Night Vision and they have some kind of replacement LED that I saw... but i dont plan on doing that soon...


Like I said, I live in Illinois and I need some kind of less than lethal thing weapon.

(sorry for my long post, can someone point me in the right direction?)
i know know where to start... this is completely new territory for me....
i would really appreciate some input!!!

Here is a link, check out the video.
http://www.elzetta.com/zfl-m60FAQ.htm

Oh yea, the torture test link.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f2Q55phaLzU

Enjoy,
Low

dont know if you are trying to sell me one or what,
it does appear to be made in the US but i dont know where those malkoff bulbs are made (they seem to be all the craze though, i have read a LOT of praise about them but then again i am new and dont know much about it...)

and those lights are pushing my spending limit... trying to keep it in a hundred and half range...

thanks for pointing me towards them though....
i read about them a long time ago but forgot about them...
but like i said, right now they are slightly out of my price range...

one word... Oveready.com
they have custom modified surefires ready to ship.
different style, and color crenalated bezel, upgraded switches, bored for 18650 li-ion cells.
i would recommend a Z2 or C2 from them.
it would be a great light as you can easily buy different parts, and drop-ins.

1. I like combat grip designs, because i tend to use my lights in the "cigar grip" style.
I have a Z2, and a C2, and prefer the feel of the Z2 more. both are great lights.

2. if you go with a Z2 or C2 you can have over 1000 lumens. with a triple XP-G drop-in module.
but i feel different situations require different amounts of light.
or buy a custom XM-L drop-in from nailbender. options for different tints, multiple levels, smooth or OP reflectors. and the cost is very reasonable.
if you want single mode output, it doesnt get much better than a malkoff drop-in. illuminationsupply has a wide variety of different tinted malkoff drop-ins.

3. strike bezel is up to you. consider if you will pocket carry or not, strike bezels can tear holes in your pants.
i dont particularly like strike bezels. a well built solid light would do almost as well i think.

4. twisty/ momentary works well for single mode.
if you have multiply modes, a clicky would make it much easier to operate.
ive tried using surefire's momentary twisty to operate a 3-mode drop-in, and it wasnt easy LOL.

5. try out pocket carry first, and if it doesnt feel right, maybe invest in a holster.


if you dont want all the custom mods, i would still recommend a C2, with malkoff drop-in. very nice, and simple.

:welcome:

oh wow!
thanks a TON!, finally some direction...
and thanks for the welcome!
-GB

Do you need a light just for self defense? Do you need a light with multiple output levels?

For self-defense, any light with a single output level is good to go as too many modes on a light would become too confusing to the user. You could get a Surefire host as what Skyfire has suggested and get a drop-in LED unit for it. You could also look at Malkoff's MD2 host with Malkoff drop-in. Malkoff is made in the USA and both Gene Malkoff and his wife provides not only exceptional service, but also exceptional quality as well. You can buy Malkoff with great confidence. You might want to look at his turn-key MD2 which has been fully assembled and is ready to go. It should fall in your budget.

You might want to have a light with multiple output levels for general use since a light that is bright enough for blinding someone would also be too bright if you are trying to use it for closeup work. Do take this into consideration when buying.

Malkoff MD2 is another great host.

also take a look at the Surefire E2DL. nice beam, simple, no mods necessary.
very comfortable in hand, and can easily be used in a cigar grip as well.
you can sometimes find one for just over $100 on the marketplace.

For your purposes, 120 lumens or more. Singlemode, with a clickie tailcap. So I suggest the 6p defender, easy to upgrade do to the fact that you can change modules out and make it brighter, very well built.
overready.com ones are bored out for the popular 18650 rechargeable batteries. So the initial cost of the light is higher, but unless your buying your cr123 batteries online, it can get pricy. If your only going through a set of batteries a year, I wouldn't worry as much.

There's alot of cool routes you can go with surefires.
Except the 6px and G2x, there not built to be upgraded.

thanks for a heads up about the batteries, it was a concern.
my laser sight (viridian) goes through batteries like popcorn (they are CR2 and it gets expensive fast)

so 120 is okay? at least for starters...

i am concerned about carrying it; like i said, i hate bulk.
i mostly wear regular Levis, so i dont have a lot of pockets.
so i suppose that i am a minimalist, got my SOG blink in my watch pocket that i have carried for the past 10 years, keys on a loop, wallet in my back pocket (and i even hate carrying that)...
if i didnt end up getting one with a clip on it, do they make aftermarket clips? if so, do they put extra stress in areas of the light that would expedite the life expectancy of the parts due to forces not considered in its design?
like say, between the main body tube and the tail-cap and or bezel...

you guys seem to be extreme modders and i think i would eventually like to build my own now...
(i love putting new triggers, stoning, ect. in my handguns; i dont think i have anything that remains stock)

that being said i like to start off with something stock for at least a while...

that E2DL looks to have some kind of extra shroud around the tailcap that looks like it might get in my way (not to mention the price tag, and since its my first high end light, well to me, i would like to get a new in box one)

+ a local shop is selling those Z2-S lights for 100 bucks new in box, so thats why i asked about that. what are the carry options for it? is it good to go in the pocket even with the rubber rings?

that defender also looks to be a good one...
CarpentryHero, you suggested a milled out model, do rechargeable batteries have the same power output? i dont know, like i said... i am new... :duh2:
(buying batteries online is no problem for me...)

thanks again fellas!
-GB

so, you reckon that Surefire's new lights rated at 200 are designed to stop people from modifying them?
i am just asking because of the lights bezel...

gunsby_blazen said:

so, you reckon that Surefire's new lights rated at 200 are designed to stop people from modifying them?
i am just asking because of the lights bezel...

Click to expand...

Yes...and plus it's one thing SF can do to cut cost with out (terribly) ruining reliability. With that being said, the newer heads (since they are, for all intents and purposes, "sealed") are NOT field repairable.

I say go for a C2 incan (~$70 on the Marketplace) and a Malkoff (also USA Made), about $65 on the MP, and the same from Gene's website. This will allow you to do future upgrades/field repairs.

What do I think about SF's Combat Grips? SF invented the Combat Grip...seriously...and they are the greatest thing since sliced bread...solid, reliable, etc. Just grip the light cigar style, pair it with your hand gun, and give the back of the light a little squeeze, and the perp won't have a clue what you're doing. A few times in practice, and it becomes second nature.

Clip? If you're going to pocket the light, then I seriously suggest the C2 for this purpose. It keeps the light in the same place, and you can just index your hand down the side, grab it, and employ it...no "digging"/fumbling...it's always in the same place. And the clip keeps it there.

Clickie or Twisty? Twisty. Why? Less parts to fail (i.e. bomb-proof...again, seriously). The twisties are much easier to use with the "cigar grip" (also known as the Surefire/Rogers technique in the handgun world). The twisty also act as a dead-mans switch; assuming the switch hasn't been twisted on, if you get "hit" (however) in a dark area, you're not lit up by your dropped light.

The C2 in it's stock form isn't as bulky as it may seem...I EDC every time I go out into "the world"...for all the reasons stated above.

With this set-up, assuming you don't eventually burn the LED out from 1,000's of hours of use, this light will still work when your great grand-kids end up with it...seriously.

BTW, Welcome to CPF!!!

Oh, and if you need that extra push...

angelofwar, you just recapped almost all of my thoughts
thanks for reaffirming them!

what are the run times on a stock C2 incandescent w/ a Malkoff led?
whats that do to battery life?

are the C2 incandescent light's internals different than the LED models (talking about straight from Surefire)
or, are the two lights the same except for the bulb/led?
i noticed the prices are majorly different and so are the listed run times (the incan unites w/ surefire's upgrade led lists a lower run-time than the unit that comes with the LED from the factory...)
that has really thrown me off.

you guys got all the answers....

Surefire started the tren of the p60 module, the G2,C2,6p,Z2 etc all take this module size.
Depending on what your willing to buy right off the hop, you can save a few dollars and buy an Incan version and then buy the module in the voltage range you prefer. Malkoff are very wellbuilt and run time is dependent on how much output you need. Its best to take a look on the site, I like the 18650 batteries for there high volume of power, though they are only 3.7-4.2volts depending on manufacturer and type you can pull alot more amps. My caraziest p60 module is the Vannisle Quad 5.6 amp aluminum. Only runs peak on AW 18650 2900mah or AW IMR18650.
Maybe 30 minutes of runtime at 1500 lumens. Very impractical but fun

the only difference with the C2 incan and C2 LED is the "light engine". one is a incandesant module, the other a LED module.
AOW recommended the incandesant model because its cheaper. and the reason for that is because you'll take out the incandesant module, and replace it with a Malkoff module.
so, theres really no point in paying extra for the C2 LED if the stock surefire LED module will be replaced.

surefire C2 come around brand new on the marketplace quite often at very good prices. you can even get a new bored C2 host for quite a good deal.

the malkoff module, will give you 2-3 hours of useful runtime off 2xCR123 lithiums.

heres a pic with some drop-in modules.
starting from the left...surefire P60L module, customlites module, G2Z, C2, 18650 li-ion cell, cr123a battery

I'd start simple, and get a C2, G2L, or a 6P and a Malkoff M61 drop-in, either from Oveready, the marketplace, or wherever. It's a relatively inexpensive, entry-level high-performance light. Use it, alot, for a while, and then decide what direction to go from there. I personally really like the Malkoff MD2/M61 combo with high-low bezel ring, and tail-shroud with pocket clip. Two light levels, easy to tote around, sturdy enough to whack people with if necessary, and stone-cold reliable.

Two light levels makes it a very practical/useful light. I'm more often needing to get to the ktichen late at night or checking on locked doors/windows, than lighting up and face-shooting the zombies bursting though my door at 0-dark thirty. But that's me...

Forget about the strike bezel. Whack somebody hard with a normal bezel, and they're going to notice that. They will, at the very least, be annoyed, if not downright discouraged by the feeling. IMO, it's not worth the added complications of how to carry and protect your soft bits from the strike bezel.

i ended up getting a C2, and it was an LED version despite advice not to get one like that...
got it for around 80 bucks with a handful (literally a hand full) of batteries as part of the deal.
it was an open box item/damaged package....

i am going to use it like this for a while but i am wanting to try and put one of those M61 led lamps that i have been reading about..... eventually
another local store is selling those G2X lights for 55 dollars so i am going to buy one for my brother for his graduation
... maybe a Vtac mount for his rifle too, dont know about that yet... (the light for sure, doing that tomorrow)

Thanks a bunch fellas!

so how hard is it to build up a light from parts? not something for hard use but for screwing around with or maybe just general use around the house?
maybe thats a topic for a new thread... or search around see whats already posted..

Illumination supply sells P60 kits, drivers and LED's.
So if you know how to solder, Im sure it's reasonably easy.

Yeah, the C2 is a great light. I have the HA. I'd lean towards getting a standard incand version, probably used, and then getting whatever drop-in you feel would best serve your needs. I'm a big believer in floody lights for potential use with a firearm. The throwy beams are great for impressing your friends, but it's highly unlikely that I would take a shot at night at someone or something 80 yards away.

For my money, the XML-based drop-ins with an orange peel reflector are a great balance for personal use... nice big hotspot, plenty of spillbeam... decent enough throw for anything short of checking a large backyard...

That get's my vote... and DID get my vote.

My vote goes to a Malkoff M61(LED module),I prefer the warm tints.A Surefire 6P or C2 incan would make an excellent host light or you could go with the Malkoff MD2 host,all three are quality host lights!