Is it bad directly on full power?

kj2

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Is it bad for your flashlight (for the LED ) to run directly on full-power when turned on?
Or is it better to turn on the light in a lower mode (like low- mid) and than turn it up?
 

lightfooted

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Well, the led gets a lot of power suddenly. Otherwise when you start it in low- or mid mode, it doesn't get all the power at ones.

Really? How do you figure that?

In multi-mode, regulated lights the power in full "turbo" or whatever else you want to call it gets applied the same way whether it is turned on that way from start or switched to from a lower intensity mode. LEDs are solid state light emitters and as long as you keep everything within their rated specs, it should function for quite some time. You can even exceed the specs sometimes by small amounts to increase performance at the cost of component life...which is expected. If you are using a factory light then use it on high as much as your batteries can deliver.

I am curious where you heard of this concept to "ramp up" the power to full?
 

lightfooted

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An incan bulb's life usually benefits by a gradual power-up, not LEDs.

I am not even sure of this being entirely accurate...yes a burning wire benefits from not changing states frequently (pulsing or flashing)....but I'm not so sure it benefits from slowly burning versus quickly burning.
 

kj2

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Really? How do you figure that?

In multi-mode, regulated lights the power in full "turbo" or whatever else you want to call it gets applied the same way whether it is turned on that way from start or switched to from a lower intensity mode. LEDs are solid state light emitters and as long as you keep everything within their rated specs, it should function for quite some time. You can even exceed the specs sometimes by small amounts to increase performance at the cost of component life...which is expected. If you are using a factory light then use it on high as much as your batteries can deliver.

I am curious where you heard of this concept to "ramp up" the power to full?
I just thought that that could be bad for the led.
 

lightfooted

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Okay....well I guess the quick answer would have been: Nope, it's not bad for the LED.
 

shane45_1911

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I am not even sure of this being entirely accurate...

You may want to check with the makers of various "soft-start" switches - designed entirely for the reason I stated above. Incan life expectency is greatly increased by applying a gradual increase in voltage until it caps at max.
 

blah9

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Also, isn't it true that for some flashlights' low modes, the LED actually runs at full brightness but is switched on and off repeatedly to make it put out less light? That would mean that on a lower mode the light is being switched continuously instead of just staying in one state.
 

lightfooted

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I have never taken at face value that just because a product exists that it does what it claims to, however after a bit of thought I realize that in higher powered incans this could certainly be a factor. While I suppose my Surefire 6P isn't considered high-powered nowadays, I've had it for 16 years (15 as an incan) and replaced the lamp only once because of a drop onto concrete.
 

HKJ

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With incan soft start can be beneficial because a cold bulb will draw much extra current, until it heats up.
Led does not have this, the driver always feeds them a constant current. The led will only take damage if it gets to hot and that does not happen at power on, but after some time. With a direct drive led you might damage it when starting on fresh batteries, because the current can be above the maximum rating for the led.
 

vali

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At someone stated before, a Led using PWM is just switching from full to off a lot of times per second (sometimes thousands).
 

Cataract

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QUOTE=blah9;3653569]Also, isn't it true that for some flashlights' low modes, the LED actually runs at full brightness but is switched on and off repeatedly to make it put out less light? That would mean that on a lower mode the light is being switched continuously instead of just staying in one state.[/QUOTE]

This is what is called Pulse Width Modulation (PWM), and lots of manufacturers use this principle to vary the light intensity. The LED is powered at max, but intermittently, at high frequency so we don't really see it flicker, to make it look dimmer. This same principle is also used in a variety of applications, including electric motors. I am planning a thread to explain PWM a little better and how to detect it.

LED's will not be affected by coming on at full power (provided you respect the battery recommendations for the specific light). In fact most lights do not "ramp up" gradually between outputs, but just switch suddenly to the next output (sometimes going off very briefly between modes), so starting with a lower output and switching to a higher one will often have the same effect as turning the light on in full-blast: all the power goes to the LED suddenly. Some -if not most- manufacturers do program their regulators to be more gradual, a little like a soft-start switch, or at least make sure the driver will not exceed the LED's maximum voltage/current at power on, which certainly helps in the long run.

"Ramping up" an Incan bulb is not necessarily a good idea (not talking about soft-start switches, here, but it could apply in some cases). That depends on the construction of the bulb. Some bulbs will burn out faster if you give them less than a certain amount of juice. Some bulbs will last longer when not used at their maximum. Some other bulbs won't care either way and burn out after X hours. The specifics include too many factors and these definitely surpass my knowledge of bulbs. Most flashlight bulbs will work fine for a long time with depleting batteries, since it is expected that your batteries will not give the same output all the time.


The two biggest factors that shorten the lifetime of electronics or mechanical devices:
- Heat, generated from either extended usage, running at fulls power, hot environments or lack of ventilation, etc.
- Start / stop. Yep, turning things on and off frequently is not good for them, but LED's can handle quite a bit, so don't worry about using your flashlights for morse code. The start/stop factor affects bigger machines and high power electronics much more than small equipment... your LED light will last a long time even in strobe mode...

With incan soft start can be beneficial because a cold bulb will draw much extra current, until it heats up.
Led does not have this, the driver always feeds them a constant current. The led will only take damage if it gets to hot and that does not happen at power on, but after some time. With a direct drive led you might damage it when starting on fresh batteries, because the current can be above the maximum rating for the led.

Great way to put it!
 

kj2

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QUOTE=blah9;3653569]Also, isn't it true that for some flashlights' low modes, the LED actually runs at full brightness but is switched on and off repeatedly to make it put out less light? That would mean that on a lower mode the light is being switched continuously instead of just staying in one state.

This is what is called Pulse Width Modulation (PWM), and lots of manufacturers use this principle to vary the light intensity. The LED is powered at max, but intermittently, at high frequency so we don't really see it flicker, to make it look dimmer. This same principle is also used in a variety of applications, including electric motors. I am planning a thread to explain PWM a little better and how to detect it.

LED's will not be affected by coming on at full power (provided you respect the battery recommendations for the specific light). In fact most lights do not "ramp up" gradually between outputs, but just switch suddenly to the next output (sometimes going off very briefly between modes), so starting with a lower output and switching to a higher one will often have the same effect as turning the light on in full-blast: all the power goes to the LED suddenly. Some -if not most- manufacturers do program their regulators to be more gradual, a little like a soft-start switch, or at least make sure the driver will not exceed the LED's maximum voltage/current at power on, which certainly helps in the long run.

"Ramping up" an Incan bulb is not necessarily a good idea (not talking about soft-start switches, here, but it could apply in some cases). That depends on the construction of the bulb. Some bulbs will burn out faster if you give them less than a certain amount of juice. Some bulbs will last longer when not used at their maximum. Some other bulbs won't care either way and burn out after X hours. The specifics include too many factors and these definitely surpass my knowledge of bulbs. Most flashlight bulbs will work fine for a long time with depleting batteries, since it is expected that your batteries will not give the same output all the time.


The two biggest factors that shorten the lifetime of electronics or mechanical devices:
- Heat, generated from either extended usage, running at fulls power, hot environments or lack of ventilation, etc.
- Start / stop. Yep, turning things on and off frequently is not good for them, but LED's can handle quite a bit, so don't worry about using your flashlights for morse code. The start/stop factor affects bigger machines and high power electronics much more than small equipment... your LED light will last a long time even in strobe mode...



Great way to put it![/QUOTE]

Thanks :D
 

goose2283

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You may want to check with the makers of various "soft-start" switches - designed entirely for the reason I stated above. Incan life expectency is greatly increased by applying a gradual increase in voltage until it caps at max.

Anyone who's worked with theatrical lighting can attest to that. Most lamps fail when they're turned on suddenly. Any modern computer lighting console has a filament heat-up mode that gives the light about 5% power to warm the filament to avoid thermal shock. I don't have numbers to back up my statement, but soft-start is a very good thing for incandescent bulbs. As has been said a few times already, not a big deal for LEDs, as there is no filament to mechanically shock by rapid heating.
 

Lightman2

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If you have to play safe with an LED by ramping up it is simply time to stop buying flashlights. Most lights come on in either high or low and I cannot see any differance in LED life whether starting in low or high. If there was an issue surely light manufactuers would say 'do not turn this light on via it's full setting but scroll through from low to high'?
 
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