Is HDS system new 120 Tactical good enough ?

Hi all,

I have been spending hour after hour on this sight (as well as the web) researching all manner of Flashlights. No doubt there are a great number of wonderful Flashlights available these days but, trying to find THE one (EDC) for my needs is a bit overwhelming. After much research, I am leaning towards the HDS system Tactical lights. I am looking for a Flashlight with an easy UI. I like the fact the the HDS is already programed to my liking. I found other Flashlight programing much too confusing for my taste. I also want a small'ish size light that has BLINDING power if needed. A strobe could also be very useful. Also, one handed operation is important to me. I'd like a light that is more of a "thrower" than a flood. Of course quality built and simple operation (especially under stress) is a given. I live in a somewhat rural area of Maine and I travel over one hundred miles (round trip) daily so, I spend a lot of time on the Highway. In case you haven't heard, it can get a wee bit cold here in Maine so, a robust/well made flashlight that can be operated with a GLOVED hand is important consideration. I admit to liking the ELZETTA but, I think the ELZETTA might be a bit too big for EDC unless it's in a holster which I rather not have to deal with at this time. Come on ELZETTA, how about a ONE cell 123 ? Anyway, do you CPF members ESPECIALLY you HDS SYSTEM fans think the 120 Tactical will fit the bill or should I save my Pennies and go for the 170 Tactical (assuming the HDS systems is the way to go for my needs). Thanks in advance.

Regards,
SixCats! aka Tom

I have the three of the HDS lights (140, 170, 100 CRI) and if you primarily want blinding light, go with the 170. The difference between the brightness of the my 140 and 170 is very noticeable but the 140 is a wide angle light and the 170 is narrow angle light. You need to balance how much light you want out the front vs how much you want to pay for a flashlight. Is the extra 50 lumens worth $60? Only you can decide that.

If you are going to carry it in a pocket I think I would get the flush button of the "EDC Executive".
That might be a problem with gloved hands?.... not sure there? I don't like a light coming on in my pocket.
My Novatac rides in a pistol box now because it has the "tactical" raised button and kept coming on in my pocket.
I too have come to the conclusion that I to should get either a 120 or 170 HDS light.
I carry a HDS Twisty 140 in my pocket now and that is NOT going to come on in my pocket... but its a 2 handed light. I have a CCW and need to pocket carry something I can use with one hand.
I have also considered another Surefire E1B with a Z68 tailcap switch installed on it. I have a E1B in another pistol box and like it very much. The raised button has kept it out of my pocket. The problem is that an E1B costs at least as much as the EDC120 and then I need to buy the $38. Z68 tailcap switch. For an extra $22. more... I can get a HDS 170 and I don't need to buy parts. Also not having a clip is a plus for me for pocket carry. The light is less likely to eat a hole in my pocket. If you get the HDS light from Battery Station you will get a plastic "battery caddy" with 4 123 batteries for no extra charge. I have not campared S&H with other sellers lately.
If anyone knows of a better deal please post it.

Get an HDS 170! You'll never regret it. Battery Station is great to deal with!

Hi guys,

Lumenz, thank you for that info regarding the difference in brightness between the 140 and 170. If the difference between the 140 & 170 is that noticeable, then I suspect the 120 would not be bright enough for my purpose ? Yes, only I can decided if it is worth the extra money for the extra lumens. DC, I too have a CCW so your point about the carry clip making a hole in the pocket is something to consider seriously. I should also consider a smooth Bezel for the same reason. I want nothing that could SNAG on clothing. So Lumenz, did you had any problems with a extended HDS systems RAISED button coming on in your pocket ? Was it a pant pocket or a Jacket/Coat pocket ? I understand what your saying about the Surefire vs. the HDS 170. Heck, I should just Pony up the money and buy the 170. Thanks for the info about Battery Station.

Regards,
SixCats!

120 lumens is PLENTY.
The tactical models have the narrow beams, so it will be more throw-oriented than the executive models.
You can order a flush tail cap if that is desired.
It will be great.
Just get it.

Check out the 200 lumen HDS rotary as well, I have one and I love it. It allows you to have 1,2,3, or all 4 presets set to the rotary control (or whatever brightness or flashy mode you want). If budget is a concern I would think the 120 would be enough. I think a good rule of thumb around here is 1.4 times a lumen rating gives you a slight perceivable difference. So 120 X 1.4 = ~170 or slightly perceivable difference. This general rule does not take into account if different emitters are being used in the 120 or 170 models, different emitters may have a tighter hot spot and give more throw.
EDIT: You can enable button lock on the light so that it does not come on accidentally. I prefer the flush button so I can tail stand the light.

From what I have read here and expereinced personally it takes a big jump in lumens to see a difference in brightness. Weather or not the beam pattern is flood of spot makes more of a difference... to me anyway.
I have a HDS 140 Twisty.... and a Ra 85Tr (HDS Twisty with a RED low) They look like the same light. The 140 throws a wider pattern but the 85Tr out-throws the 140 and looks brighter when its shined at you from a distance. My 85Tr has become a shelf queen. I usually have more use for a white low than a red on a day to day basis.
I think I lean toward the 170 personally for my next purchase because like Lumenz says its a narrow angle light. For CCW I want to blind someone and get an advantage (if I ever have reason to unconceal the CW).
The only thing that gives me pause is having to explain to the wife why I need another light that costs over $100.
The truth is either the 120 or the 170 would do the job just fine.

a HDS Clicky would be a great choice.

I EDC a high CRI clicky, which is only 100 lumens max. and its usually enough. there are rare moments when i wished it was brighter, but 100 lumens is more than enough most the time.

if you want throw, go for the HDS clicky 170. in recent months there have been many on the marketplace, going for great deals! understandably so with the HDS rotary out now.

dont think about the price too much, just get the model you want. you wont regret it. your new HDS will easily be your primary EDC for a long while to come. since getting my HDS, my search for an EDC has stopped completely. only light i can think of replacing it with is another HDS, rotary high CRI of course.

The HDS 120 Lumens is plenty for EDC, and more, but out on a highway it may not be able to cover all situations. No EDS light is a real thrower. I'd go for the 120 Lumen model first, as you need hands on experience, but count on another light with more throw to keep in the vehicle. I'd also recomment you checkout the ZebraLight SC60w for your EDC light (not a thrower either). Something from EagleTac, or the Fenix TK-35 might be better as your big light. You might want to carefully consider the battery choice for the big light, if you decide on a pair of lights. Get the HDS 120 or the ZebraLight SC60w first and then see where you want to go from there.

I agree with StandardBattery. As the saying goes, two is one and one is none. Have a spare light because you never know what is going to happen. Deciding on a HDS for your EDC is definitely the right way to go, and even though HDS are known to be tough it doesn't mean you won't loose it. You need another light to fill the niche where HDS can't. That would primarily be throw, but also doubles as a backup light.

I have the 170 tactical and I usually carry it clipped bezel down in the back pocket of my jeans or tactical pants, and I have an HDS 200 rotary which sits on a kydex holster. These two alone covers all my lighting needs on a day to day basis. On my camping trips I usually bring along some more powerful lights like the Surefire M3LT on top of the HDS.

If you are getting two lights, the 120 is enough for now. But I would urge you to look at the 170. Not only is it brighter, it runs more efficiently at the same output level as the 120. For example, if both the 120 and 170 were to be set at the same 80 lumen, you would get a longer runtime out of the 170. That and the brighter output makes it worthwhile paying the $60 extra.

Some have suggested Zebralight SC51. Though it is a nice light, I dislike the fact that the button switch kept getting activated in my pocket. Got the SC50 previously, in a couple of days of carrying it the light got switched on more than 3 times in my pocket! I sold it off about a week later. Thought they would have improved the switch design on the SC51 but nothing was done. However, the new SC600 does look promising and I am awaiting the neutral white version to be available before ordering one.

I've had Clicky's all the way from 100-170, with my present carry being a high CRI 100 and it's absolutely sufficient for my needs, but with your need for throw the 120 sounds much better. Some comparisons between the difference in output of either a wide or narrow beam aren't all that helpful and I think that while you'd notice some difference in output between the 120 and 170 if they were side by side, in actual usage there would be a fairly marginal difference.

Hi guys,

Thank you for all the responses. Oooh dear, I never thought choosing my FIRST EDC could be so difficult. If I had unlimited funds, half my problems would be solved. At any rate, I very much appreciate all your thoughts and suggestions. I am going to RE-read and STUDY all your comments/information and think things through. Pjan, something I find confusing.....how is it that the 170 is able to run more efficiently than the 120 ? I understand this is the case with two cells vs. one but.....? OK guys, I'm going to take my time, think things through and hopefully make the right decision.

Regards,
SixCats!

Not all emitters share the same level of efficiency, even from the same batch out of the production line. The 170 and 120 both uses the same Osram GDP emitters. The only difference being that the 170 are tested to be more efficient, thus allowing the higher output. There are some very rare cases where Henry from HDS found out some which could go up to 200 lumen.

Deleted.. Double posting.

Hi Tom,
Do you really have six cats? That must be a handful if they're all Maine Coons!

I'm probably a little biased, but I'd say it's pretty hard to go wrong getting an HDS. Many find it difficult to go back to other lights after using one—they just do so much so well.

SixCats! said:

If the difference between the 140 & 170 is that noticeable, then I suspect the 120 would not be bright enough for my purpose ?

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For the output decision, if price is really a consideration, I'd recommend getting the 120. While it may not seem that way by the standards of today, I think it's fair to say that any modern HDS you get will be pretty darned bright and capable of being blinding. Think of it this way: If you have the burst feature activated (it's an option on the new ones, always on for the originals), the Clicky will give you it's absolute maximum for a timed period (10 seconds on old, 40 seconds on new) and then step down to the next level down for more efficient extended running. If you're staring at the beam on a wall when it drops out of burst, it's very obvious, but the difference is small enough that you will probably miss it during normal use. Probably 75+% of the time, I'm not aware of the drop while using it. The 120 bursts at 120lm and then drops to 85lm; the 170 bursts at 170lm and then drops to 120lm. My point there is that the difference between 170 and 120, the same difference as between the 170s burst and its next step down, seems like a lot on paper, but it's actually small enough to not even notice when not looking for it. If money's no object, sure, more output and better efficiency at the same level is good, but if the 120's pricetag is significantly easier to stomach, you'd likely be just as happy saving that money since the performance difference you'd miss out on is not enormous enough to worry too much about.

Just for the record, I have a wide beamed 140C, a narrow 100C, a wide 100C, a narrow 70lm Twisty, and I've seen/used a narrow 120C, 140C, and 170C. The narrow 120lm beam looked impressive to me next to my wide 140; its beam profile more than made up for its slightly lower output.

I generally prefer the flush buttons, but if it's important that you be able to use the light with a glove, there's no question, you want the raised button. Whether the raised button causes the light to come on in your pocket probably depends on the clip you use, the pants you wear, the fit of those pants, your body type, your activities, etc.... Personally, I can't remember any of my Clickies activating accidentally. If it's a problem, the button can be locked out, as mentioned.

Also, I agree with those who have suggested getting two lights. For the price of a 170, you can probably get a 120 and a second light. Then, if you lose one, you're not left in the dark; if you need to loan one, you're covered; if your second one is a dedicated thrower, it's likely to throw as well as a 170C; if the second one is very floody, it might be a good complement to the narrower beam of the 120 (or you could get a SF diffuser for the Clicky). It just gives you more options and a little bit of a safety net too.

dcbeane said:

If you get the HDS light from Battery Station you will get a plastic "battery caddy" with 4 123 batteries for no extra charge. I have not campared S&H with other sellers lately.
If anyone knows of a better deal please post it.

Click to expand...

It looks like BS has some Clickies in stock, whereas most other places don't right now. Still, I'm hearing that new shipments are going out, so other stores should be getting them in any time now, so I'd recommend waiting for one of them. BS will give you $4 worth of batteries in a carrier that may or may not be worth anything to you, then they'll charge you probably $8+ in shipping. Unless they've changed their system since my last order (both the last order I made from them and the last order I'll ever make from them), they don't tell you the shipping charge at checkout, you find out how much they billed you for it only when the package arrives.

As for a better deal, Unique Titanium seems like a class act, plus there's a cpf code for a small discount, and shipping is free, I think you just pay for the insurance if you want it. Only problem is, I don't see the 120lm version of the Tactical on the site. Might want to email and ask if they'll be stocking it.

Going Gear lists the 120 Tactical on their site, so they'll probably get some in soon. Shipping is free, and the guy who runs it is actively involved in the forum and goes to a lot of trouble to shoot informative videos of the lights he sells.

Basically, due to shipping, if you're buying a non-custom HDS, just about anywhere should be a better deal than BS or direct from HDS.

SixCats! said:

I should also consider a smooth Bezel for the same reason. I want nothing that could SNAG on clothing.

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The smooth bezels are great! Unfortunately, they're not sold anymore, go for a lot secondhand, and only fit the first generation lights. But I like them for their aesthetics; if you're concerned about the crenelated bezels snagging, you needn't be, they're not sharp at all.

twl said:

120 lumens is PLENTY.
The tactical models have the narrow beams, so it will be more throw-oriented than the executive models.
It will be great.

Click to expand...

dcbeane said:

From what I have read here and expereinced personally it takes a big jump in lumens to see a difference in brightness. Weather or not the beam pattern is flood of spot makes more of a difference... to me anyway.
The truth is either the 120 or the 170 would do the job just fine.

Click to expand...

Quoted for agreement.


Hope that helps in your decision.

I will put my $.02 in on the button. As a new-comer to the HDS party, I ordered a 200 clicky. After a LOT of reading, I was undecided on what switch to get. I really like to tail stand my lights if needed, but living in the midwest, I like a button that can be activated in the winter while wearing gloves. So, in true CPF spirt...I bought BOTH!

I have found the raised button to be much easier to operate and more comfortable. And since the HDS's have the button lock (which I don't use) and auto-off (which I do use), I don't worry about the light accidentally coming on.

My flush button will be a spare in case something happens to the raised one or simply used in emergencies if the power goes off at home and I want to tail stand the light.

Don't know if this helps...just my thoughts.

Good luck on your decision! I know you will enjoy whatever you get!

i have a 120e and it is a great light, i carry it allday in a kydex holster by bladetech. i have carried a surefire for about 10 years and it is brighter than any surefire i have

mountaineer1 said:

i i have carried a surefire for about 10 years and it is brighter than any surefire i have

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Absolutely nothing against the great 120, but metihinks your Surefires should be tuned up then - assuming they are P60 compatible, that is!

Hi Sat,

Regarding your question, do I really own six Cats ? Well sir, when I choose my moniker many years ago, I did infact own six Cats. Then, I adopted yet another Kitty for a grand total of SEVEN Cats! Well, many years have passed and the wife and I are now have three Kitties remaining. As of last week, we had four Cats but, sadly, this past Tuesday, we had to "put down" yet another Kitty (GORDON) who was the sweeeetest loving boy and constant companion to my wife for over sixteen years. GORDON will be sadly missed. Sat, thank you so very much for your VERY helpful response to my post. The information you provide is outstanding and will be of great benefit to me (and I'm sure others) when making a purchase. OCD, lol, way to go! I wish I had the funds to purchase TWO lights right now but, I have so many other expenses, I shouldn't be buying anything. Of course, that has never stopped me from purchasing anything before. This is why I am taking my time and being a PITA asking sooooo many questions as I can NOT (literally) afford to make a wrong decision. OCD, yes indeed, your insight/experience with the "buttons" (like SAT) did infact help me in deciding what best suits my needs. Like I said, it gets pretty COLD here in Maine and for a good five-six months out of the year, I'll be wearing some type of gloves. I do believe a RAISED button is a must! MOUNT, glad to hear you like your 120e. Thanks again all for all your help.

Regards,
SixCats! aka Tom