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Thread: Disappointed with JetBeam BA10 output:(

  1. #1
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    Default Disappointed with JetBeam BA10 output:(

    I just got a JetBeam BA10 powered by 1xAA.

    On paper it is supposed to have 160 ANSI lumens on high, after some comparison with my LD20 R5. The high mode on the BA10 seems to be about as bright a the high (81 ANSI lumen) on my LD20...

    The low mode which is stated as 12 ANSI lumens on the BA10 is dimmer than the low (5 ANSI lumen) on the LD20.

    I am using freshly charged Eneloops both LD20 and BA10.

    Anyone experienced the same?
    Does other Jetbeam lights have overrated lumen output?

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    Default Re: Disappointed with JetBeam BA10 output:(


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    Flashaholic flame2000's Avatar
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    Default Re: Disappointed with JetBeam BA10 output:(

    Maybe you got a lemon unit? Light-reviews measured the BA10 at 130lm. Or maybe your LD20 was way brighter. You need a lux meter for a more accurate measurement.
    The 160lm reading are ANSI, I doubt there will be so much difference.

    http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/...light-T15-T-R5

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    Default Re: Disappointed with JetBeam BA10 output:(

    I don't think it's a lemon unit.

    I think the high on the BA10 looks similar to the high on the LD20 because the LD20 has a tighter spot, making the lower output (99 lumen according to Light-reviews) look similar to the 130 lumen of the BA10.

    Although the lumen rating of the 2 companies have a quite big difference even though its standardized.

    On paper the LD20 has a max of 180 lumens, and the BA10 has 160 lumen, that is 20 lumen difference.
    According to Light-reviews the LD20 has 194 and the BA10 has 130 lumens on max, 64 lumen difference.

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    Default Re: Disappointed with JetBeam BA10 output:(

    Quote Originally Posted by yliu View Post
    I think the high on the BA10 looks similar to the high on the LD20 because the LD20 has a tighter spot, making the lower output (99 lumen according to Light-reviews) look similar to the 130 lumen of the BA10.
    That is where your problem is. The human eye is sensitive light levels (intensity as in lux) and is not capable of properly integrating quantity (output, measured in lumens) of light. It can easily be demonstrated that a 150 lumen light can appear brighter than a 1700+ lumen light source to the human eye.

    Lumen ratings (like horsepower ratings of an automobile) only indicate output and tell you little to nothing about the actual performance of the device.

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    Flashaholic* tre's Avatar
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    Default Re: Disappointed with JetBeam BA10 output:(

    The only way to know the output difference between the LD20 and BA10 without any tools is to do a ceiling bounce test.

    Do this:

    Hold a light in each hand and point them at the ceiling. While looking at the floor, turn on the BA10 and then turn on the LD20 while turning off the BA10. Alternate back and forth while looking at the floor to judge which lights up the floor more. This is a good way to try and guess which has the higher output without any tools.
    Last edited by tre; 07-28-2011 at 11:52 AM.

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    Default Re: Disappointed with JetBeam BA10 output:(

    Quote Originally Posted by rmteo View Post
    That is where your problem is. The human eye is sensitive light levels (intensity as in lux) and is not capable of properly integrating quantity (output, measured in lumens) of light. It can easily be demonstrated that a 150 lumen light can appear brighter than a 1700+ lumen light source to the human eye.
    I know by just looking can give some inaccurate results, but I don't have any instruments to measure my lights with.

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    Default Re: Disappointed with JetBeam BA10 output:(

    Quote Originally Posted by rmteo View Post
    Lumen ratings (like horsepower ratings of an automobile) only indicate output and tell you little to nothing about the actual performance of the device.
    Depends on how you define "actual performance". If you look at "trunk size" I agree that "horsepower" is a poor measure.

    Nap.

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    Default Re: Disappointed with JetBeam BA10 output:(

    other "rough" test method:

    point one beam at a wall,
    overlap with beam from other light,
    put away 1st,
    switch 2nd away,
    redo a few times
    .
    .
    .

    that way You can also get an impression, which light is brighter


    PS: a "1*AA" sized light has to be run with a 14500, not with a crappy Ni-Mh. If Your light cant be run with Li-Ion, get another one

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    Default Re: Disappointed with JetBeam BA10 output:(

    Quote Originally Posted by yliu View Post
    I know by just looking can give some inaccurate results, but I don't have any instruments to measure my lights with.
    Then do not care about Lumen ratings - as I said they tell you nothing about the performance of the light - which is what you are trying to gauge by looking.

    I do not bother with Lumen ratings (whether OTF or emitter) at all - they are only of use to a designer of lighting fixtures - other than that, they are used purely a marketing tool to sell flashlights. Its like trying to decide what vehicle to get based on the horsepower rating (whether RWHP or flywheel) of its engine.

    I own a Nissan 370Z sports car that outputs 350HP. My neighbor has a Nissan Titan truck which also has a 350HP engine.

    I am only able to tow about 1,500lb. behind my car. Why can't I tow a 10,000lb. trailer like my neighbour with his TiTan? After all, they both have 350HP engines.

    My neighbour is complaining that it takes 9 seconds for his truck to go from 0-60MPH and he gets less than 15MPG. I can do the same in the 370Z in less than 5 seconds but still manage better than 24MPG. Go figure.

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    Flashaholic* Nake's Avatar
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    Default Re: Disappointed with JetBeam BA10 output:(

    Quote Originally Posted by rmteo View Post

    I own a Nissan 370Z sports car that outputs 350HP. My neighbor has a Nissan Titan truck which also has a 350HP engine.

    I am only able to tow about 1,500lb. behind my car. Why can't I tow a 10,000lb. trailer like my neighbour with his TiTan? After all, they both have 350HP engines.

    My neighbour is complaining that it takes 9 seconds for his truck to go from 0-60MPH and he gets less than 15MPG. I can do the same in the 370Z in less than 5 seconds but still manage better than 24MPG. Go figure.
    Nothing to "go figure". The truck probably weighs twice as much as your 370Z.

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    Default Re: Disappointed with JetBeam BA10 output:(

    Quote Originally Posted by Nake View Post
    Nothing to "go figure". The truck probably weighs twice as much as your 370Z.

    Plus gear ratios.

    Pops

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    Default Re: Disappointed with JetBeam BA10 output:(

    "Performance" is generally measured in how adequate to the intended purpose the item is.

    In case of flashlights, the most common purpose is to get a comfortable illumination of the objects you're pointing it at. Since the flashlight works by interacting (through light) with these objects, "performance" will also depend on the objects (their nature, color, reflectivity, size, distance etc.).

    Without knowing anything about the objects (and what means "comfortable illumination" for the particular user), you can't tell which measurements (lux, lumen, beam size etc) are good predictors for "performance".

    And even when you know the objects beforehand, these measures are just predictors. They allow you to select the most likely candidates from a long list of possibilities. It's only by comparison in actual use that the user can decide which light is really best suited to his purpose.

    Nap.

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    Default Re: Disappointed with JetBeam BA10 output:(

    Quote Originally Posted by Napalm View Post
    "Performance" is generally measured in how adequate to the intended purpose the item is.

    In case of flashlights, the most common purpose is to get a comfortable illumination of the objects you're pointing it at. Since the flashlight works by interacting (through light) with these objects, "performance" will also depend on the objects (their nature, color, reflectivity, size, distance etc.).

    Without knowing anything about the objects (and what means "comfortable illumination" for the particular user), you can't tell which measurements (lux, lumen, beam size etc) are good predictors for "performance".

    And even when you know the objects beforehand, these measures are just predictors. They allow you to select the most likely candidates from a long list of possibilities. It's only by comparison in actual use that the user can decide which light is really best suited to his purpose.

    Nap.
    There are standards (such as the OSHA one for office and workplace) and they all refer to illuminance (or intensity, brightness in laymen terms). OSHA uses foot-candle (lumens/sq.ft) while others use Lux (lumens/sq. meter) - none use lumens.

    Some OSHA info http://shadesbreath.hubpages.com/hub...ffice-Lighting
    Another one http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/li...oms-d_708.html
    Even one for orchids (again no lumens) http://www.orchidsamore.com/culture/light.htm
    Last edited by rmteo; 07-28-2011 at 12:43 PM.

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    Default Re: Disappointed with JetBeam BA10 output:(

    Quote Originally Posted by rmteo View Post
    There are standards (such as the OSHA one for office and workplace) and they all refer to illuminance (or intensity, brightness in laymen terms).
    They are designed to establish a safe baseline to which employers can adhere and avoid lawsuits.

    Safe does not necessarily mean comfortable (or pleasing).

    Nap.

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    Default Re: Disappointed with JetBeam BA10 output:(

    What units do you use to define comfortable (or pleasing)? Lumens or Lux or something else?

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    Default Re: Disappointed with JetBeam BA10 output:(

    Quote Originally Posted by rmteo View Post
    What units do you use to define comfortable (or pleasing)? Lumens or Lux or something else?
    Read again my post.

    Nap.

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    Flashaholic* tre's Avatar
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    Default Re: Disappointed with JetBeam BA10 output:(

    Quote Originally Posted by rmteo View Post
    Then do not care about Lumen ratings - as I said they tell you nothing about the performance of the light - which is what you are trying to gauge by looking.

    I do not bother with Lumen ratings (whether OTF or emitter) at all - they are only of use to a designer of lighting fixtures - other than that, they are used purely a marketing tool to sell flashlights.
    I have to disagree with this somewhat. I want to know how many lumens a light can output. Otherwise I would rather buy a Fenix E01 than a Zebralight SC600 because it is smaller and runs longer on high. But the E01 will not illuminate anything very well.

    Another great example is a Maelstrom G5 vs a Maelstrom X10. The X10 has a slightly more intense beam but 2.5x the lumens. This (among other measurements) allows me to know what I am buying.
    Last edited by tre; 07-28-2011 at 02:45 PM.

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    Default Re: Disappointed with JetBeam BA10 output:(

    Quote Originally Posted by tre View Post
    I have to disagree with this somewhat. I want to know how many lumens a light can output. Otherwise I would rather buy a Fenix E01 than a Zebralight SC600 because it is smaller and runs longer on high. But the E01 will not illuminate anything very well.
    And you can just as easily end up with the problem that the OP is facing:

    "On paper it is supposed to have 160 ANSI lumens on high, after some comparison with my LD20 R5. The high mode on the BA10 seems to be about as bright a the high (81 ANSI lumen) on my LD20..."

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    Flashaholic* tre's Avatar
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    Default Re: Disappointed with JetBeam BA10 output:(

    Quote Originally Posted by rmteo View Post
    And you can just as easily end up with the problem that the OP is facing:
    Quote Originally Posted by tre View Post
    This (among other measurements) allows me to know what I am buying.
    I agree that you need to look at more than lumens as I said above. I think that lumens is one of many factors that need to be considered so you know what you are getting.

    In addition to lumens, you have to look at other factors such the emitter used, lux@1m, beam distance, beam angle, size of the reflector, tint bin, efficiency bin, and how hard the emitter is driven to avoid problems like the OP is having.

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    Default Re: Disappointed with JetBeam BA10 output:(

    You can try the TI 14505 crAA. The output should match the BC10.

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    Default Re: Disappointed with JetBeam BA10 output:(

    Hi Yliu. I also have a BA10. I've had mine since 6/18/2011. Up until a week ago, I was using Energizer's Ultimate Lithium AA in it. I emailed JetBeam, and they told me that even though they only show a AA battery for use with this light, a 14500 is fine to use as well. So I did. WOW. This thing is now the brightest single AA/14500 light I own. On my LUX meter, it went from 81 to 238 between the two types of batteries.

  23. #23

    Default Re: Disappointed with JetBeam BA10 output:(

    Quote Originally Posted by JohnnyBravo View Post
    Hi Yliu. I also have a BA10. I've had mine since 6/18/2011. Up until a week ago, I was using Energizer's Ultimate Lithium AA in it. I emailed JetBeam, and they told me that even though they only show a AA battery for use with this light, a 14500 is fine to use as well. So I did. WOW. This thing is now the brightest single AA/14500 light I own. On my LUX meter, it went from 81 to 238 between the two types of batteries.
    WOW, I am glad I saw this lol. Any beamshots?

  24. #24

    Default Re: Disappointed with JetBeam BA10 output:(

    somtimes the human eye can accurately asses the relative output of 2 torchs. try this quick method.

    shine the 2 lights side by side on a wall. move one light further from or closer to the wall until the 2 hotspots have the same intensity. then assess the relative sizes of the hotspots.

    sometimes this method works well, sometimes it just doesnt work at all, but the beauty of it is you will know if it works or if it doesnt, you will either confidently make the call you have matched the intensity or that you cant match the intensity.

    cheers.

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    Default Re: Disappointed with JetBeam BA10 output:(

    Quote Originally Posted by JohnnyBravo View Post
    Hi Yliu. I also have a BA10. I've had mine since 6/18/2011. Up until a week ago, I was using Energizer's Ultimate Lithium AA in it. I emailed JetBeam, and they told me that even though they only show a AA battery for use with this light, a 14500 is fine to use as well. So I did. WOW. This thing is now the brightest single AA/14500 light I own. On my LUX meter, it went from 81 to 238 between the two types of batteries.
    You should let us know about this earlier!

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    Default Re: Disappointed with JetBeam BA10 output:(

    If the BA10 behaves exactly the same as the BC10, then using a 14500 Li-ion [ICR IMR] is only for showing off.
    See http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/...SHOTS-and-more!
    Maybe a LiFePO4 would be a answer.
    Last edited by MichaelW; 07-30-2011 at 10:39 AM. Reason: less voltage

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    Default Re: Disappointed with JetBeam BA10 output:(

    might I suggest clarifying who or what "JetBeam" is you are referring to (a JetBeam USA dealer, JetBeam USA, or JetBeam-Sysmax the manufacurer, etc) before suggesting carte blanche that people may use Li-Ion...
    my contact at JetBeam/Sysmax says "Li-Ion is NOT recommended, but if you insist on using Li-Ion to only use it in short bursts".

    and per MichaelW post to selfbuilt's review - there are some safety concerns in doing so..

    FYI as a dealer - I abide by published specs, not private emails... which in this case published specs says "Single Lithium AA".

    Cheers
    Tod

    Quote Originally Posted by JohnnyBravo View Post
    ... I emailed JetBeam, and they told me that even though they only show a AA battery for use with this light, a 14500 is fine to use as well. So I did. WOW. This thing is now the brightest single AA/14500 light I own. On my LUX meter, it went from 81 to 238 between the two types of batteries.
    the reality of life... 50% +/- of it will be in darkness (unless you have a light!) dba
    (also EagTac-USA)

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    Default Re: Disappointed with JetBeam BA10 output:(

    Well before suggesting 14500 lithiums maybe we should check with the OP why he did chose BA10 over BC10. If the reason was that he feels uncomfortable with LiCo and wants to use safer NiMh or alkalines.... then the suggestion to use 14500 doesn't help.

    Nap.

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    Default

    Lol, I got the BA10 because the local dealer said that they would only have the BC10 available in about 1 month. So I decided to get the BA10 now and BC10 later.

    The BA10's output is actually more than enough for me, it just really disappointing that it can't deliver it's claimed output even though it's ANSI standard.
    Last edited by yliu; 08-01-2011 at 01:13 PM.

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