Cheap, regulated "pocket rocket" 1x18650?

As per title.

I'd like something significantly cheaper and (quite) a bit more powerful than a Fenix TK21, otherwise I'd probably buy just that from the local dealer (It seems reliable and great for my own needs, just too expensive).

A̶v̶a̶i̶l̶a̶b̶i̶l̶i̶t̶y̶ ̶i̶n̶ ̶ Cheap shipping to Europe is important.

Runtime and construction quality do not really matter (I already have reliable AA and CR123 lights for emergencies etc, although not very powerful). This will be a "toy" light, bought mostly for the "fun factor".

500-800 OTF lumens would be about right, which I guess means an XM-L LED (or perhaps an SST-50). Good throw desired but not required, but it shouldn't be all flood.

Beam quality is important (no more rings please!). OP reflector desired (but probably not that important with large die sizes, like XM-L).

Neutral tint availability would be a great bonus (The Quark MiNi NW XP-G limited run edition is still the best light I own, in terms of tint).

Size isn't important, but being pocketable would be another bonus (in spacious pockets, obviously, since it'll be a 18650 light).

Waterproof, if possible (but not a requirement). It should be weatherproof, though.

No aggressive crenelations. Clip not required.

Should be safe to use with both IMR and LiCo-unprotected (aka ICR) cells.
(I'm not crazy enough to use unprotected LiCo cells, but the protection could always fail.)

You can also propose unregulated models, but they should have at least a low-voltage cutoff (over-discharge protection).

Thank you in advance for your responses!


PS. Long time on-and-off lurker (I've only posted on the marketplace), so I'm pleased to meet all of you.
I apologise for the complete lack of originality of this boring thread. ;-)

First thoughts:

I do realise that I'm probably asking for the impossible (too-many-but-not-strong requirements, conflicting and a bit fuzzy), so if I cannot find a good deal I'll probably give it some time before buying.

I guess that a scaled-up version of Xeno E03 would be close to ideal.
Perhaps the F42, which is a cheaper version of G42 (lacks the stainless steel parts)?
Horribly ugly, though - it certainly didn't need the cooling fins near the tailcap!

BTW, are the Xeno supposedly-OTF ratings reliable? Something in the published numbers seems off. Are their emitters well-centered?
The fact that almost all their lights have NW and WW versions is impressive and very positive.

Zebralight SC600 seems to be the perfect "pocket rocket" right now, being incredibly small, powerful and a very tempting choice overall. However it's expensive (actually more than the aforementioned Fenix), a bit too floody and has no NW option (yet).
I also have some doubts about the UI...

shiningbeam S-mini with XM-L
or shiningbeam p-rocket

solarforce L2 or L2P host, and a p60 drop-in.

XM-L emitters are less expensive than SST LEDs, so an equivilent XM-L drop-in is usually less expensive.

...and if I remember correctly, XM-Ls are a tiny bit more efficient than SST-50s.

Hi, you can build your light by your own if you like, check what I do

http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...18650-XM-L-mod-finished&p=3658999#post3658999

I just recently received my Solarforce L2T from the main solarforce-sales website...took two weeks to get to me but it was worth the wait. The new body is free of any crenelations and has deeper cut knurling to give more purchase to the hands. I went with the combo - L2T+ Solarforce XM-L drop-in with a smooth reflector. I was surprised to confirm that it does indeed have an excellent beam though I don't believe it's a neutral tint. I think it's the T6 bin. Forward clickie tail switch and all sealed with o-rings, there's even a gasket between the glass and the front bezel! All bought for around $37USD total.

First thing I thought of was the Shiningbeam P-Rocket. Decent build quality, lots of light.

Alternatively you can try Deal Extreme and get any ole 1x18650 XM-L light with decent reviews. Probably cost 30 bucks with free shipping, though you will have to wait a while.

I wasn't even aware about the P-Rocket! Thanks for that, it might be exactly what I'm looking for.
I'd bet it also has a very smooth beam profile. Too bad it doesn't have a NW edition.

Regarding the Solarforce: I wanted to avoid "modular" lights and get something simple.
Probably the voracious flashaholic who's lurking in my psyche hasn't awakened completely, so i'm still managing to keep him suppressed... (I have the feeling that I'd end up spending much more if I ever got involved with drop-ins.)

Then again, the Solarforce is a strong temptation...

So, some more questions (Please bear with me!):

1. Has anyone tested the XM-L version of P-Rocket? I didn't find any reviews and have no idea how many real OTF lumens to expect.
2. Are the P-Rocket threads anodised? Tailcap lockout would be useful in such a monster (and Solarforce seems to lack it).
3. Isn't the 2.8V cut-off a bit too low?
4. Does the Solarforce body need the addition of thermal paste/tape for better heatsinking (if I go that route)? I'm not sure that the various modules would fit tightly enough. And where one can find such materials?
5. Are all the Solarforce parts interchangeable (eg. bezels)? Because their site isn't exactly the most descriptive (and the part numbers aren't always stated clearly).
6. What are the differences between L2 and L2P? Better anodising of the latter?
7. Do the drop-ins that are rated for 3.7V (for a 18650 cell) have any efficiency/output advantages over the (more versatile) 3V-to-6V rated ones?
8. If anyone can answer my Xeno-related questions (post #2) please do, because I still find their NW offerings interesting...

Any other suggestions are welcome!

@Changchung: Interesting project, but I hate soldering!

I recently discovered Download's Pocket Rocket custom flashlights LINK

It is a more expensive then the ShiningBeam listed above, but it is also supposed to be much higher quality. Lots of light (rated around 800-900 lumen for the XM-L version), runs off 18650 plus more.... You might want to check it out

TimAckerman said:

I recently discovered Download's Pocket Rocket custom flashlights LINK

It is a more expensive then the ShiningBeam listed above, but it is also supposed to be much higher quality. [...]

Click to expand...

A charming custom light, small and very beautiful, but not what I was looking for. If I was going to pay for a custom-made one I would go for a different type of light. Thank you for the suggestion though.


Previously, I was referring to the solarforce-sales.com website, not to solarforce.hk (which isn't a lot better)...

Well, I can easily see why someone would buy a Solarforce body but choose a LED module from a third-party: For the same (apparently) XM-L module the former website claims a 820 lumen output but the latter clearly states 500 lumens maximum.
Talk about unreliable information... it certainly makes a bad first impression.

400THz said:

So, some more questions (Please bear with me!):

1. Has anyone tested the XM-L version of P-Rocket? I didn't find any reviews and have no idea how many real OTF lumens to expect.
2. Are the P-Rocket threads anodised? Tailcap lockout would be useful in such a monster (and Solarforce seems to lack it).
3. Isn't the 2.8V cut-off a bit too low?
4. Does the Solarforce body need the addition of thermal paste/tape for better heatsinking (if I go that route)? I'm not sure that the various modules would fit tightly enough. And where one can find such materials?
5. Are all the Solarforce parts interchangeable (eg. bezels)? Because their site isn't exactly the most descriptive (and the part numbers aren't always stated clearly).
6. What are the differences between L2 and L2P? Better anodising of the latter?
7. Do the drop-ins that are rated for 3.7V (for a 18650 cell) have any efficiency/output advantages over the (more versatile) 3V-to-6V rated ones?
8. If anyone can answer my Xeno-related questions (post #2) please do, because I still find their NW offerings interesting...

Click to expand...

1-3 Haven't had P-Rocket.

4. When using drop-ins with high amperage which create lots of heat it is a good idea to make sure that heat from drop-in is transferred to host. Mainly this is concern with XM-L, SST-50 and SST-90 drop-ins. I use aluminium foil which i wrap around drop-in so it fits thight at host. Not most elegant solution but does the job very well. Some people slides from aluminium can and use those instead of foil. I don't like copper tape or thremal paste. I'm pretty sure that glue on copper tape doesn't conduct heat as well as foil. Thermal paste is meant to be used in THIN layer between 2 conductive materials to fill small bumbs between surfaces. Thermal paste in not nearly as good heat conductor as aluminium or copper are. With drop-in going to sylinderical host thermal paste only mess up things and IMO does more harm than good.

5. Yes. And they are also compitable with Surefire 6P/9P meaning they should be interchangeable with other 3rd party Surefire compatinle parts.

6. L2 has Type II anodizing while L2P has Type III (better) anodizing.

7. Drop-ins designed to certain voltage usually are more efficient than drop-ins which accept broad voltage range. Drop-ins with large voltage range often are 1-mode.

8. sorry, can't help.

How about the new Shiningbeam S-Mini XML?

400THz said:

I wasn't even aware about the P-Rocket! Thanks for that, it might be exactly what I'm looking for.
I'd bet it also has a very smooth beam profile. Too bad it doesn't have a NW edition.

Regarding the Solarforce: I wanted to avoid "modular" lights and get something simple.
Probably the voracious flashaholic who's lurking in my psyche hasn't awakened completely, so i'm still managing to keep him suppressed... (I have the feeling that I'd end up spending much more if I ever got involved with drop-ins.)

Then again, the Solarforce is a strong temptation...

So, some more questions (Please bear with me!):

1. Has anyone tested the XM-L version of P-Rocket? I didn't find any reviews and have no idea how many real OTF lumens to expect.
2. Are the P-Rocket threads anodised? Tailcap lockout would be useful in such a monster (and Solarforce seems to lack it).
3. Isn't the 2.8V cut-off a bit too low?
4. Does the Solarforce body need the addition of thermal paste/tape for better heatsinking (if I go that route)? I'm not sure that the various modules would fit tightly enough. And where one can find such materials?
5. Are all the Solarforce parts interchangeable (eg. bezels)? Because their site isn't exactly the most descriptive (and the part numbers aren't always stated clearly).
6. What are the differences between L2 and L2P? Better anodising of the latter?
7. Do the drop-ins that are rated for 3.7V (for a 18650 cell) have any efficiency/output advantages over the (more versatile) 3V-to-6V rated ones?
8. If anyone can answer my Xeno-related questions (post #2) please do, because I still find their NW offerings interesting...

Any other suggestions are welcome!

@Changchung: Interesting project, but I hate soldering!

Click to expand...

It has a very smooth beam. Th beam is also very wide. I'm pretty sure I read somewhere that MG is giving at-the-emitter lumens ratings. So the one rated at 530 lumens (the one I have) is probably more like 400 out the front lumens. The light comes with a very decent holster and a different tailcap button (I think it's momentary only).
The threads at the black are black but I can't tell if they're anodized or just painted.
If I loosen the tailcap on mine a little bit the light won't come on so it has a lock-out function for all practical purposes.

JKodiak said:

4. When using drop-ins with high amperage which create lots of heat it is a good idea to make sure that heat from drop-in is transferred to host. Mainly this is concern with XM-L, SST-50 and SST-90 drop-ins. I use aluminium foil which i wrap around drop-in so it fits thight at host. Not most elegant solution but does the job very well. Some people slides from aluminium can and use those instead of foil. I don't like copper tape or thremal paste. I'm pretty sure that glue on copper tape doesn't conduct heat as well as foil.

Click to expand...

I see. Aluminium foil! Simple enough.
(I also liked the fact that you spelled it as "aluminium"!)

JKodiak said:

Thermal paste is meant to be used in THIN layer between 2 conductive materials to fill small bumbs between surfaces. Thermal paste in not nearly as good heat conductor as aluminium or copper are. With drop-in going to sylinderical host thermal paste only mess up things and IMO does more harm than good.

Click to expand...

Yes, in fact the thinner it is, the better it conducts heat. It's only for filling microscopic gaps between two solid metal surfaces. Even mentioning it was silly (apparently I wasn't thinking).

Also, this stuff is often conductive (depending on the composition). Using it anywhere near Lithium cells could be dangerous.

JKodiak said:

5. Yes. And they are also compitable with Surefire 6P/9P meaning they should be interchangeable with other 3rd party Surefire compatinle parts.

6. L2 has Type II anodizing while L2P has Type III (better) anodizing.

7. Drop-ins designed to certain voltage usually are more efficient than drop-ins which accept broad voltage range. Drop-ins with large voltage range often are 1-mode.

Click to expand...

Thank you, this clears up a lot of things!

E1320 said:

How about the new Shiningbeam S-Mini XML?

Click to expand...

With "only" 400 lumens, it doesn't really qualify as a "rocket".

bullinchinashop said:

It has a very smooth beam. Th beam is also very wide. I'm pretty sure I read somewhere that MG is giving at-the-emitter lumens ratings. So the one rated at 530 lumens (the one I have) is probably more like 400 out the front lumens. The light comes with a very decent holster and a different tailcap button (I think it's momentary only).
The threads at the black are black but I can't tell if they're anodized or just painted.
If I loosen the tailcap on mine a little bit the light won't come on so it has a lock-out function for all practical purposes.

Click to expand...

Thanks! Very tempting.


Anyway, I think I have decided...

Ive got an earlier neutral version with less power, now I think I want THIS
http://www.shiningbeam.com/servlet/the-136/**NEW**-P-dsh-Rocket-XM-dsh-L-850-pls-/Detail
maybe I'll see that XM-L in neutral soon

If you're looking for most lumens possible with 1x18650 and neutral tint is plus I would recommend you consider Solarforce L2T/L2P + Nailbender XM-L drop-in. I have a XM-L 3.1amp cool whit drop in and if I remember correctly it was rated 650 OTF lumens. Nailbender uses a sphere to get lumen ratings and I'm under impression that he measures lumens after lumen rating has stabilized. Anyways, you should get neutral white with more lumens than TK21. TK21 has better runtimes as it is not driven to the edge and lower low modes. At least with 3.1Amp XM-L the low rating is somewhere around 100 lumens. The P60 host + drop-in has edge on having latest leds available and possibility to upgrade the light engine and to customize light to your needs.

tsask said:

Ive got an earlier neutral version with less power, now I think I want THIS
http://www.shiningbeam.com/servlet/the-136/**NEW**-P-dsh-Rocket-XM-dsh-L-850-pls-/Detail
maybe I'll see that XM-L in neutral soon

Click to expand...

Yeah,me too!

400THz said:

Anyway, I think I have decided...

Click to expand...

So, here's what I finally did: In typical CPF fashion, I succumbed and actually bought both!

To be more precise, I got the ShiningBeam "P-Rocket" (CW XM-L, 2.8A edition, 850 lumens nominal) and a Solarforce L2P body (the HA one) with the S7 switch (the one that's supposedly able to handle up to 5A current).

I didn't buy any Solarforce modules for the latter (their XM-L models left me unimpressed); instead, I bought a suitable P60 incan drop-in from LumensFactory.

Yes, that's right! An incandescent bulb! :devil: The last time I bough such a thing was about a decade ago, so I guess I felt some nostalgia. And it has a CRI of 100 by definition, as a black-body radiator. It will probably be replaced with a neutral, hard-driven XM-L module in the future...

So, for less than 90$ I was able to satisfy both my high-lumen-output lust and my high-CRI lust, albeit not at the same time. Now I'm eagerly awaiting their delivery...

tsask said:

Ive got an earlier neutral version with less power, now I think I want THIS
http://www.shiningbeam.com/servlet/the-136/**NEW**-P-dsh-Rocket-XM-dsh-L-850-pls-/Detail
maybe I'll see that XM-L in neutral soon

Click to expand...

That's the one! I just couldn't wait for the neutral version to come out (if it ever does).

JKodiak said:

If you're looking for most lumens possible with 1x18650 and neutral tint is plus I would recommend you consider Solarforce L2T/L2P + Nailbender XM-L drop-in. I have a XM-L 3.1amp cool whit drop in and if I remember correctly it was rated 650 OTF lumens. Nailbender uses a sphere to get lumen ratings and I'm under impression that he measures lumens after lumen rating has stabilized. Anyways, you should get neutral white with more lumens than TK21. TK21 has better runtimes as it is not driven to the edge and lower low modes. At least with 3.1Amp XM-L the low rating is somewhere around 100 lumens. The P60 host + drop-in has edge on having latest leds available and possibility to upgrade the light engine and to customize light to your needs.

Click to expand...

The Nailbender drop-in seems to be a very likely candidate for a future upgrade...
However, I'll probably wait for a NW version with 800+ OTF lumens (which won't happen in the near future)!


Thanks everyone for helping me with my decision!