SMO and OP Relfectors. Is it a big difference?

I just got a Dereelight Javelin and the extender tube to utilize 3AA batteries. I have the XP-E R3 in it.

I compared it to my Eagletac P100A2 XP-E R2 and so far my Eagletac blows it out of the water on everything: Quality, lux(despite smaller reflector), beam, it's smaller, looks better, lighter. Also, for bieng cool white it appears neutral especially compared to the Javelin. I like the P100A2 tint. Maybe they sent me cool neutral instead of cool white? I don't know. That changes once I use the 3AA extender tube on Javelin the Javelin throws SLIGHTLY more. That's it though. I do have a OP reflector in the Javalin and ordered a SMO. Maybe this is why?

My question is, will it make a big difference in throw? I am starting to get convinced the Eagletac P100A2 makes the best 2AA thrower after owning many 2AA lights.

Yes. The smooth reflector will make a big difference, it will throw significantly further than the eagletac p100a2 with it

Thank you, look forward to a 2nd comparison.

OP gives a smoother beam

Incandescents seem to benefit more from a textured reflector due to a filament creating an irregular beam shape

I want to know if the smooth gives significant more throw then op. If this difference is big, no what they do.

I know wht op does.

Animalmother said:

I want to know if the smooth gives significant more throw then op. If this difference is big, no what they do.

I know wht op does.

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Yes, in most cases smooth gives more throw than op, how much more depends on the circumstances.

Smooth or orange peel reflectors can make a big difference, however be careful, it varies from model to model, there should be no general assumptions, treat every case individually - eg on a Jetbeam RRT-2 XR-E R2, Selfbuilt's measurements show that the OP reflector had a cleaner beam without all those messy rings, but suffered NO loss in throw...

To re-iterate what others have said, with a small addition:

SMOoth reflector - no diffusion or diffraction of the beam from the bulb or LED. Just pure reflection as best the reflector surface can do it.
Orange Peel (there are varying quantities as well VLOP, LOP, MOP, HOP - which are Very Low, Low, Medium and High Orange Peel) - the irregularities in the surfaces diffuse and diffract the beam. By doing do it smooth out the hot spot of the beam and give it a more diffuse and pretty look. Because of the dffraction of the beam you lose the lumens going to the hot spot and thus the throw.

There are two other things to consider when looking at reflectors as they will greatly impact the throw and look of the beam.
- Reflector Width - In general the wider a reflector the more intense the hotspot will be. The narrower the diameter the more floody the light will be.
- Reflector Depth - In general the deeper the reflector the smaller the diameter of the spill area will be. A shallower reflector will have a wider flood.

Two throwy example I can think of are:
DBS V3 - very deep and moderately wide reflector. Great throw for it's size with a small hot spot and also a small spill.
TK35 - Wide but very shallow reflector. Great throw and a small hot spot but also a very wide spill because of the shallow reflector.

strange. OP really does ruin the throw in most cases. I can think of some where OP actually improved throw. The EagleTac T20C2 MKII with the XPG has better throw with the OP reflector than the SMO reflector. In general SMO will throw farther though. There is really no reason to nees an OP reflector in the XPE Javelin. Both My XRE and XPR Javelins have the smooth reflector.

ShineOnYouCrazyDiamond said:

Two throwy example I can think of are:
DBS V3 - very deep and moderately wide reflector. Great throw for it's size with a small hot spot and also a small spill.
TK35 - Wide but very shallow reflector. Great throw and a small hot spot but also a very wide spill because of the shallow reflector.

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Would you consider the TK30 reflector to be similar? I love the beam of that light.

tre said:

strange. OP really does ruin the throw in most cases. I can think of some where OP actually improved throw. The EagleTac T20C2 MKII with the XPG has better throw with the OP reflector than the SMO reflector. In general SMO will throw farther though. There is really no reason to nees an OP reflector in the XPE Javelin. Both My XRE and XPR Javelins have the smooth reflector.

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I thought it was suppoae to have a SMO reflector but it's sporting a OP. I should get dereelight SMO reflector soon to try them out side by side.

SMO reflectors purpose is increased throw while the same OP reflectors purpose is a cleaner beam/better transitions/slightly more spill perhaps... someone will correct me if I'm wrong. It depends on, in order of significance in my understanding (in a realistic discussion).... depth of reflector, width of reflector, type of OP. Emitter type, etc. play a role in this equation but I don't care enough, I use what people say on CPF and the generalities listed in my post.

ShineOnYouCrazyDiamond said:

To re-iterate what others have said, with a small addition:

SMOoth reflector - no diffusion or diffraction of the beam from the bulb or LED. Just pure reflection as best the reflector surface can do it.
Orange Peel (there are varying quantities as well VLOP, LOP, MOP, HOP - which are Very Low, Low, Medium and High Orange Peel) - the irregularities in the surfaces diffuse and diffract the beam. By doing do it smooth out the hot spot of the beam and give it a more diffuse and pretty look. Because of the dffraction of the beam you lose the lumens going to the hot spot and thus the throw.

There are two other things to consider when looking at reflectors as they will greatly impact the throw and look of the beam.
- Reflector Width - In general the wider a reflector the more intense the hotspot will be. The narrower the diameter the more floody the light will be.
- Reflector Depth - In general the deeper the reflector the smaller the diameter of the spill area will be. A shallower reflector will have a wider flood.

Two throwy example I can think of are:
DBS V3 - very deep and moderately wide reflector. Great throw for it's size with a small hot spot and also a small spill.
TK35 - Wide but very shallow reflector. Great throw and a small hot spot but also a very wide spill because of the shallow reflector.

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Should be Width-Length Ratio
i.e. whether the Width or the Length is dominant
(But theres always a limit like you cant get it more focused if the beam is alrdy very narrow)
Sorry for interrupting but,
I have 2 SST-50s
Same diameter but difference depth
Result in
Deeper 1 have smaller spill but larger hotspot(Dimmer)
Shallower 1 have more spill but smaller hotspot(Intenser)

Something similar to P60 and E2e
The difference in size of reflector is obvious
But both of them give a similar size of hotspot but different in spill

I hate to say it but I just did some testing and the SMO does not throw as far as the OP reflector. Here are my results:

Javelin XRE R2 cool 2AA OP reflector = 5,175 lux @ 1 meter
Javelin XPE Q5 neutral 2AA SMO reflector = 5,225 lux @ 1 meter
Javelin XRE R2 cool 2AA SMO reflector = 4,600 lux @ 1 meter
Javelin XPE Q5 neutral 2AA OP reflector = 5,375 lux @ 1 meter
Javelin XPE Q5 neutral 3AA extender OP reflector = 6,000 lux @ 1 meter

I measured at 5 meters and calculated back to 1 meter. What surprised me most is the neutral XPE Q5 out throws the more efficient XRE R2 cool tint drop-in. Also, the advertised 8,000 lux @ 1 meter and 10,000 lux @ 1 meter is clearly not correct.

Your XPE R3 should out throw all of what I have here but I think you are going to find the SMO reflector actually does not throw as far.

Edit: the test was done with Eneloops fresh off the charger.

tre said:

I hate to say it but I just did some testing and the SMO does not throw as far as the OP reflector. Here are my results:

Javelin XRE R2 cool 2AA OP reflector = 5,175 lux @ 1 meter
Javelin XPE Q5 neutral 2AA SMO reflector = 5,225 lux @ 1 meter
Javelin XRE R2 cool 2AA SMO reflector = 4,600 lux @ 1 meter
Javelin XPE Q5 neutral 2AA OP reflector = 5,375 lux @ 1 meter
Javelin XPE Q5 neutral 3AA extender OP reflector = 6,000 lux @ 1 meter

I measured at 5 meters and calculated back to 1 meter. What surprised me most is the neutral XPE Q5 out throws the more efficient XRE R2 cool tint drop-in. Also, the advertised 8,000 lux @ 1 meter and 10,000 lux @ 1 meter is clearly not correct.

Your XPE R3 should out throw all of what I have here but I think you are going to find the SMO reflector actually does not throw as far.

Edit: the test was done with Eneloops fresh off the charger.

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Wow, thanks for the testing it will be very useful here on the boards. The test sound right after owning a AA ton throwers and I have a hang on lux numbers when I see the hotspot. I am closer to seeing the P100A2 as the 2AA throw king. And my search for a 2AA thrower may come to an end soon, until something else comes out. I've Owned all the top 2AA throwers people suggest and the Eagletac P100A2 is the shown me the best in all aspects especially for the money.

I will see when the SMO comes in tomorrow for my XP-E R3.

Interesting results tre, not sure why you got such low readings. Look forward to hearing your opinion Animalmother

Allot of people recommended the Dereelight Javalin for a 2AA thrower or the Quark Turbo R5/S2 for example.
Owned them and some. I wanted the best 2AA thrower. I like throw, throw makes me happy. So I kept buying and selling until I got to the P100A2 and the Javelin.

Compared hand in hand with happy Eneloops:
-The build quality of the P100A2 is better then the Javalin. Feels sturdier at the same time weighs less and is smaller.
-The P100A2 has a centered XP-E R2 with a smaller reflector yet can out throw the Javelin on 2AA. When the Javelin has the 3AA tube attached the throw is the nearly the same maybe a little more for the Javelin but was hard to tell.
-The tint on my "cool white" P100A2 seems somewhat neutral(Anyone else notice this? Maybe they sent me a neutral by accident?
-The Javelin has a very cool tint and a fairly murky hotspot(XP-E R3).
-The P100A2 has a very clean beam. P100A2 has more Lux and as for the spill they are around the same. Again though, I prefer my P100A2.
-The P100A2 has a thick head with a bezel.
-The Javalin can accept P60 drop-ins.
The Javelin has a larger head, larger reflector but it's not providing more throw.

I just looked at my P100A2, from the reflector to the build. In all aspect my P100A2 blows it out of the water by far. I do wonder if there is anymore 2AA lights I can compare it too? If anyone knows let me know I'd like to look into it. Thank you Tre for taking the time to take those much appreciated.

One more thing. If anyone has a P100A2 Cool White XP-E R2 can you check to see if the tint appears to be somewhat neutral? This is a good thing for me but I am a bit curious.
Thanks CPF!

Well, sounds like the javelin isn't the 2aa throw king anymore. Wonder what dereelight have changed to ruin it

JacobJones said:

Well, sounds like the javelin isn't the 2aa throw king anymore. Wonder what dereelight have changed to ruin it

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It's still an ok light, it can accept P60 drop-ins and maybe a mix match of pills/reflectors can get it to be a better thrower.http://www.wolf-eyes.com/product/Krait Detail.html