First (almost) "nicer" flashlight.

jackknifeh

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Aug 27, 2011
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Hello, first post here. I saw someone with a Mini-maglite on his belt in the early 80s. I got one. Two years ago I got a Nite-Ize 1 watt LED bulb and IQ switch. The switch gave me 3 brightnesses and two strobe speeds. It also turnes itself off after 14 minutes.

That's my "nice" flashlight. I've had many others over the years spending as little money as possible.

I just got a Fenix LD10 and it should be in the mail today. It will go up to 100 lumens at the highest setting. It has a SOS setting so I don't have to remember which is a dot and which is a dash. :thinking: Always been a problem for me. I needed small, different brightnesses (with the brightest being pretty bright), LED and that's about it.

I can see where this could become an interest for some people. Just in case I'm one of "some people" I'd like to ask "what are the most used features in small flashlights?". By small I mean 6" and under. I don't want to spend money on features I don't use.

This is the description of the bulb in the Fenix LD10:
Cree XP-G (R5) LED
What does that mean? I wasn't thinking of anything other than a white light when I ordered the light.

Any help or suggestions are appreciated. I DO NOT plan on getting crazy with these little lights. I like knives and I can see one reason to have more than one knife. When slicing a sandwich you need one blade to start the cut, they a different type of blade to cut the last half of the sandwich. So, of course you need two knives at least. :D Is that the case with flashlights also? I mean a different light for different needs.

Jack
 

Norm

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:welcome:

I have moved your thread from New Member Introductions, so your questions can be answered in the correct forum. The introductions forum is just for a quick Hi I'm here sort of post. - Norm
 
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GaAslamp

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I can see where this could become an interest for some people. Just in case I'm one of "some people" I'd like to ask "what are the most used features in small flashlights?". By small I mean 6" and under. I don't want to spend money on features I don't use.

That's a pretty general question, and the most general answer is that it depends on the person and what they use their flashlights for. Also, some features may be infrequently used but desired by "some people" ;) just in case they're ever needed, such as SOS mode. Generally speaking, I think that infrequently-used features should not get in the way of using more frequently used features such as regular, steady light output modes--after a while "most people" probably get tired of having to make an additional click (depending on the flashlight's interface style), for example, to get to the modes that they use most often. Do you have some examples of features that you want people to comment on?

This is the description of the bulb in the Fenix LD10:
Cree XP-G (R5) LED
What does that mean? I wasn't thinking of anything other than a white light when I ordered the light.

You probably know what an LED is. Cree, the manufacturer of the LED is an industry leader in efficiency and light output (per size) for the kinds of LEDs most frequently used in small high-end flashlights. The XP-G is one of their latest and greatest LEDs in this field, and is very popular because it's well-suited for flashlights that try to strike an even balance between "throw" (how far away the bright center of a typical flashlight beam can illuminate objects) and "spill" or "flood" (lighting a wide portion of a nearby area). "R5" refers to the "flux" or brightness "bin" of the LED used in your flashlight. LEDs will vary in capabilities when they're manufactured due to random factors (stochastic process), and they're sorted according to characteristics such as tint and brightness. In this case, R5 is one of the top flux bins for the XP-G--not THE absolute highest, but brighter ones are hard to come by while the R5 comes close and has sufficient availability to be fairly common in this market. Rest assured that it means that your new flashlight is up-to-date with regard to the output and efficiency of its "emitter" (the XP-G LED), although many other factors come into play, such as the electronics of the flashlight (Fenix is one of the best in this regard as well).
 
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AaronG

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The LD10 is the flashlight that got me into this mess :D You should be impressed. The multiple brightness settings are very useful and almost needed with a brighter light. I could do without the flashing modes though.

If you want to get the most out of your light lithium AA primaries or rechargable eneloops will give you full power. (You'll get less output from alkaline cells because they just can't keep up with demand, also they weak occasionally)
 

jackknifeh

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Batteries. That's something I want to know more about. Not really batteries but performance and batteries are half of that equasion. The other half is the light itself. Should I get a rechargable battery system? If so, which one? Money is definately a consideration. I don't want or plan to spend a lot of money on flashlights but the battery issue may help in any battery product I own. Right now I have a 1.5 year old grandson. Are there toys on the market today that don't take batteries? :D

Any advice welcome.

Jack
 

ebow86

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I would say the most utilized feature of led lights is the multiple levels of output they offer. We didn't have that feature back in the incandescent days, of which some of us are stuck at and perfectly happy:)
 

GaAslamp

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Batteries. That's something I want to know more about. Not really batteries but performance and batteries are half of that equasion.

The type of battery that will allow your LD10 to achieve its advertised performance (including run times) is a 2500 mAh (ordinary capacity) AA NiMH, as this is what Fenix uses to test their flashlights. These batteries can generally keep up with the LD10's demands well enough, they're rechargeable, and they can be used in nearly every device that takes AA alkalines (which is a lot of devices!). Their major disadvantages are that they are heavy for their size, and most will lose their charge fairly quickly over time if you only use them occasionally. There are ones that hold onto their charge better, namely low self-discharge NiMH such as the Sanyo Eneloop, but these are generally lower in capacity to begin with, at around 2000 mAh (there are higher-capacity ones available now but they cost more).

Lithium AA primary (non-rechargeable) batteries such as the Energizer Ultimate Lithium can also keep up with the LD10's demands, and should give you significantly longer run times per battery. Obviously they cost more to use in the long run because they cannot be recharged, but they also weigh much less, can keep most of their charge for a decade or even longer, and work a lot better at cold temperatures, making them ideal for emergency use and everyday carry (EDC). These are what I generally use for my AA EDC flashlight, although I'll sometimes use an NiMH if I expect to use the flashlight a lot on a particular day for some reason, and carry lithium primaries for backup.

Alkaline AA batteries can be used in the LD10, and should work fine on the Low and even the Mid modes, but will suffer and sag terribly on the High and especially the Turbo modes, giving you declining output (unable to maintain regulation for long) and short run times despite their relatively high total capacity. They are also not good for occasional or emergency-standby use because they stand a good chance of eventually leaking (and thereby damaging the flashlight) when left in a flashlight for any extended (and totally unpredictable) period of time. :eek: And although rare, it may be possible for them to leak if they're used too hard and heat up too much. For high-performance single-cell flashlights such as the LD10, I would recommend using alkalines only in a pinch (when nothing better is available) and only on the Mid or Low modes if possible. While there are some such scenarios (e.g. extended power outages due to major natural disasters) that help make AA flashlights more useful than other types, given how common AA alkalines are, I strongly recommend using something better whenever you can. By the way, alkalines weigh a bit less than NiMHs, but significantly more than lithiums.

Somebody correct me if I'm wrong (i.e. don't take my word for it), but I believe that the LD10 can also use 14500 (AA-size thereabout) lithium-ion batteries. These are of higher performance than the other types, having a much higher voltage and excellent tolerance for high currents, and most single-AA flashlights (including the LD10) that can take them run at higher brightness on their Turbo modes (for the same run times, more or less) when they're using these. The disadvantages are that for the vast majority of people they're used in flashlights and nothing else, so you'd have to invest in a specialized type of battery and charger for just one purpose, and then there is the inherent sensitivity of the lithium-ion chemistry, making them more dangerous unless you know exactly which batteries and chargers to buy and how to handle them (and they're still somewhat more dangerous even if you do). Things might have improved a bit in this regard by now, but I'm not the person to ask about that--for me, NiMH batteries are very safe, tolerant of abuse, and proven, and offer adequate performance (and generally similar run times to those of the 14500) for frequent, heavy use, so currently they get my vote.

By the way, note that there will be variations in run times (more so than light output, I think) between individual flashlights because of variations in the emitters--for a given flux bin (e.g. R5) they're all pretty close in brightness per current (ampere), but not necessarily in brightness per power (watt) since they'll vary in forward voltage (nothing you need to concern yourself with, except for that run times and overall efficiency can vary noticeably between individual flashlights).

The other half is the light itself. Should I get a rechargable battery system?

If you haven't already invested in NiMH batteries and chargers, then you might want to do so now either if you expect to put a lot of run time on your flashlights, or if you can find enough other uses (e.g. heavily-used children's toys) to justify the up-front cost in the long run (shouldn't take much for most people, but it ultimately depends on the individual and how they use battery power).

If so, which one? Money is definately a consideration. I don't want or plan to spend a lot of money on flashlights but the battery issue may help in any battery product I own. Right now I have a 1.5 year old grandson. Are there toys on the market today that don't take batteries? :D

NiMH, as you're probably figuring, is more versatile because it's highly compatible with devices that take AA alkalines (Eneloops are very popular around here because their quality and performance under load are high for NiMH). That would be my suggestion, both for this reason and for safety (if that's still a significant issue for 14500 lithium-ions). On the other hand, if you expect to use alkalines for toys and other devices, and do not expect to use your flashlights frequently and/or for extended periods, then maybe lithium primaries (e.g. Energizer Ultimate Lithium) would be the best way to go for your LD10; lithium primaries are also good to keep around for emergency use regardless because they're so stable over time and dependable under all conditions (at least as good as CR123A lithiums in those respects, and probably even better). I use both NiMH rechargeables and lithium primaries myself in my flashlights, depending on my expected usage pattern for each, but then again I already own NiMH batteries and chargers for a variety of purposes.

Obviously it is more difficult to justify the 14500 lithium-ion, unless you demand the highest performance out of your LD10 on Turbo, whatever the cost (or risk, if any). That's not uncommon around these parts ;), believe me, but it's a personal matter so you have to decide for yourself.
 
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jackknifeh

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The type of battery that will allow your LD10 to achieve its advertised performance (including run times) is a 2500 mAh (ordinary capacity) AA NiMH, as this is what Fenix uses to test their flashlights. These batteries can generally keep up with the LD10's demands well enough, they're rechargeable, and they can be used in nearly every device that takes AA alkalines (which is a lot of devices!). Their major disadvantages are that they are heavy for their size, and most will lose their charge fairly quickly over time if you only use them occasionally. There are ones that hold onto their charge better, namely low self-discharge NiMH such as the Sanyo Eneloop, but these are generally lower in capacity to begin with, at around 2000 mAh (there are higher-capacity ones available now but they cost more).

Lithium AA primary (non-rechargeable) batteries such as the Energizer Ultimate Lithium can also keep up with the LD10's demands, and should give you significantly longer run times per battery. Obviously they cost more to use in the long run because they cannot be recharged, but they also weigh much less, can keep most of their charge for a decade or even longer, and work a lot better at cold temperatures, making them ideal for emergency use and everyday carry (EDC). These are what I generally use for my AA EDC flashlight, although I'll sometimes use an NiMH if I expect to use the flashlight a lot on a particular day for some reason, and carry lithium primaries for backup.

Alkaline AA batteries can be used in the LD10, and should work fine on the Low and even the Mid modes, but will suffer and sag terribly on the High and especially the Turbo modes, giving you declining output (unable to maintain regulation for long) and short run times despite their relatively high total capacity. They are also not good for occasional or emergency-standby use because they stand a good chance of eventually leaking (and thereby damaging the flashlight) when left in a flashlight for any extended (and totally unpredictable) period of time. :eek: And although rare, it may be possible for them to leak if they're used too hard and heat up too much. For high-performance single-cell flashlights such as the LD10, I would recommend using alkalines only in a pinch (when nothing better is available) and only on the Mid or Low modes if possible. While there are some such scenarios (e.g. extended power outages due to major natural disasters) that help make AA flashlights more useful than other types, given how common AA alkalines are, I strongly recommend using something better whenever you can. By the way, alkalines weigh a bit less than NiMHs, but significantly more than lithiums.

Somebody correct me if I'm wrong (i.e. don't take my word for it), but I believe that the LD10 can also use 14500 (AA-size thereabout) lithium-ion batteries. These are of higher performance than the other types, having a much higher voltage and excellent tolerance for high currents, and most single-AA flashlights (including the LD10) that can take them run at higher brightness on their Turbo modes (for the same run times, more or less) when they're using these. The disadvantages are that for the vast majority of people they're used in flashlights and nothing else, so you'd have to invest in a specialized type of battery and charger for just one purpose, and then there is the inherent sensitivity of the lithium-ion chemistry, making them more dangerous unless you know exactly which batteries and chargers to buy and how to handle them (and they're still somewhat more dangerous even if you do). Things might have improved a bit in this regard by now, but I'm not the person to ask about that--for me, NiMH batteries are very safe, tolerant of abuse, and proven, and offer adequate performance (and generally similar run times to those of the 14500) for frequent, heavy use, so currently they get my vote.

By the way, note that there will be variations in run times (more so than light output, I think) between individual flashlights because of variations in the emitters--for a given flux bin (e.g. R5) they're all pretty close in brightness per current (ampere), but not necessarily in brightness per power (watt) since they'll vary in forward voltage (nothing you need to concern yourself with, except for that run times and overall efficiency can vary noticeably between individual flashlights).



If you haven't already invested in NiMH batteries and chargers, then you might want to do so now either if you expect to put a lot of run time on your flashlights, or if you can find enough other uses (e.g. heavily-used children's toys) to justify the up-front cost in the long run (shouldn't take much for most people, but it ultimately depends on the individual and how they use battery power).



NiMH, as you're probably figuring, is more versatile because it's highly compatible with devices that take AA alkalines (Eneloops are very popular around here because their quality and performance under load are high for NiMH). That would be my suggestion, both for this reason and for safety (if that's still a significant issue for 14500 lithium-ions). On the other hand, if you expect to use alkalines for toys and other devices, and do not expect to use your flashlights frequently and/or for extended periods, then maybe lithium primaries (e.g. Energizer Ultimate Lithium) would be the best way to go for your LD10; lithium primaries are also good to keep around for emergency use regardless because they're so stable over time and dependable under all conditions (at least as good as CR123A lithiums in those respects, and probably even better). I use both NiMH rechargeables and lithium primaries myself in my flashlights, depending on my expected usage pattern for each, but then again I already own NiMH batteries and chargers for a variety of purposes.

Obviously it is more difficult to justify the 14500 lithium-ion, unless you demand the highest performance out of your LD10 on Turbo, whatever the cost (or risk, if any). That's not uncommon around these parts ;), believe me, but it's a personal matter so you have to decide for yourself.

Thanks for all the info. I think it's exactly what I needed and was an excellent read. I ordered this a couple of hours ago. What do you think of it?
http://www.batteryjunction.com/coch8nibaaa2.html

I was expecting the prices to be higher on these things. I haven't priced re-chargeable batteries and charging systems in over 20 years (except for power tools). As with most things as the technology gets better and more companies get involved the price comes down.

I have a AA Alkaline Panasonic battery in the LD10 now. I walked my dog last night and went from the brightest "low" setting to the turbo and there was barely any change. In fact, if I didn't know I was changing something I wouldn't have noticed the difference. I'll say this though. Even now it is brighter outside than my Mini-maglite with the 1 watt LED Nite-Ize upgrade. The 1 watt LED was a big improvement over the standard bulb that comes in them. The kind of brightness the LD10 has with one AA battery in a 4" flashlight is great. If it gets better with the NiMH batteries then I'll really have a reason to live. :D

Please let me know what you think of the batteries I ordered. The document that came with the flashlight had the number 2500 in the battery description. The ones I ordered have 2600.

Thanks for your help,
Jack
 

jackknifeh

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GaAsLamp, you said Energizer Ultimate Lithium batteries could last a decade. 10 years??? Is that true or did your keyboard make a typing error?

Jack
 

geckoblink

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Somebody correct me if I'm wrong (i.e. don't take my word for it), but I believe that the LD10 can also use 14500 (AA-size thereabout) lithium-ion batteries. These are of higher performance than the other types, having a much higher voltage and excellent tolerance for high currents, and most single-AA flashlights (including the LD10) that can take them run at higher brightness on their Turbo modes (for the same run times, more or less) when they're using these.
You can run an LD10 with a 14500, but you lose the lower level modes. It's also not spec'd for the extra voltage and you may run the risk of frying the hardware.
 

vali

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GaAsLamp, you said Energizer Ultimate Lithium batteries could last a decade. 10 years??? Is that true or did your keyboard make a typing error?

Jack

They can last more than 10 years if you don't use them, of course ;).

My advice in batteries is to get some eneloops and a decent charger. Decent means something that can charge every cell independently and it is able to know if the cell is full. Those cells offer near lithium performance and will retain charge for a handfull of years.
 

GaAslamp

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I ordered this a couple of hours ago. What do you think of it?
http://www.batteryjunction.com/coch8nibaaa2.html

Uh...I think you probably should have asked this question before ordering. :ohgeez: I suppose they'll work alright, as I've used generic rechargeable cells and trickle chargers successfully for years, myself, but for not too much more money you could have done better. I'm not trying to make you feel bad, I'm just being honest.

I was expecting the prices to be higher on these things. I haven't priced re-chargeable batteries and charging systems in over 20 years (except for power tools). As with most things as the technology gets better and more companies get involved the price comes down.

The best deals I've seen of late are the Sony Cycle Energy BCG34HLD4KN and BCG34HLD2RN packages. The first one includes four Sony low self-discharge NiMH AA cells that seem very similar in quality and performance as Eneloops, and could be had for under $15 from some retailers. The second one has the same charger but only includes two half-capacity cells of the same basic type, and could be had for under $10. The main attraction here is not necessarily the cells, which may actually be top-notch in any case, but the charger, which for the money is an excellent smart charger that helps maintain the capacity and longevity of the cells by charging each of them individually and being able to detect when each of them is full so it can stop charging each cell at the right time.

Based on my experience (and the collective experiences of many), over time you will not get the same consistent performance out of lesser chargers and cells. The second package is great for those who wish to use Eneloops or cells from another brand of their choice. By the way, Sanyo's chargers stink in comparison, and so do most others; Duracell has one decent charger (an expensive one) and Panasonic has a good one, too, I think, but most of theirs are as poor as the rest.

I have a AA Alkaline Panasonic battery in the LD10 now. I walked my dog last night and went from the brightest "low" setting to the turbo and there was barely any change. In fact, if I didn't know I was changing something I wouldn't have noticed the difference.

Wow, I didn't think it would be THAT bad! :eek:oo: My ZebraLight H51c can reach nearly full brightness (130 lumens) on an absolutely FRESH alkaline, but visibly declines very quickly until it is barely able to maintain the 63 lumen mode for several minutes (dropping again to the 29 lumen mode, which it can sustain for a while longer).

By the way, make sure that the electrical contact points on your flashlight are clean and free from any thread grease or other gunk that might have migrated there.

I'll say this though. Even now it is brighter outside than my Mini-maglite with the 1 watt LED Nite-Ize upgrade. The 1 watt LED was a big improvement over the standard bulb that comes in them. The kind of brightness the LD10 has with one AA battery in a 4" flashlight is great. If it gets better with the NiMH batteries then I'll really have a reason to live. :D

Enjoy it while it lasts because just like TV screen size, flashlight brightness doesn't seem as impressive once you get used to it. ;) The good news is that if you're like most people, then eventually you'll realize that brightness isn't everything, and start appreciating other aspects of high-end flashlights. On the other hand, the bad news is that if you're anything like me, then afterward you'll start to get picky about other things like beam tints and maybe even color rendering. :D:shakehead Truly the main driving force of human innovation and technological advancement (and rampant consumerism :whistle:) is never being satisfied with the status quo. :thumbsup:

GaAsLamp, you said Energizer Ultimate Lithium batteries could last a decade. 10 years??? Is that true or did your keyboard make a typing error?

Like vali said, they can last that long if you don't use them. I'm sorry about not making it sufficiently clear that I was talking about storage life rather than run times. Most types of cells cannot hold most of their charge for nearly that long in storage, even when completely unused, but lithium primaries can.

You can run an LD10 with a 14500, but you lose the lower level modes. It's also not spec'd for the extra voltage and you may run the risk of frying the hardware.

Thanks, I was hoping that somebody would step in and provide some real information regarding the LD10 specifically. So I guess for rechargeable cells, NiMH is the obvious choice here.
 

Cataract

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:welcome:

[...]I'd like to ask "what are the most used features in small flashlights?". By small I mean 6" and under. I don't want to spend money on features I don't use.
[...]

The shortest answer possible would be low, high and EDC (EveryDay Carry.)

Some of us like really low low like 0.2 lumens and less for night time. Some like crazy output just for the sheer fun of it. The in-between is needing a flashlight for daily activities like work, walking through dark parking lots or parks and finding a keyhole. The general consensus seems to be 1 to 200 lumens for the latter.

As for EDC, the clip has won most CPFer's vote as their favorite feature for transport.

[...]I DO NOT plan on getting crazy with these little lights. [...]

None of us did. Wrap your wallet in duct tape and burry it deep, because you just subscribed to CPF : the first step towards buying more flashlights than you can stuff in your pants. The second step is buying storage for your flashlights. Don't even get me started on batteries!


[...]
I like knives and I can see one reason to have more than one knife. When slicing a sandwich you need one blade to start the cut, they a different type of blade to cut the last half of the sandwich. So, of course you need two knives at least. :D Is that the case with flashlights also? I mean a different light for different needs.
[...]
Jack

Some use a different light for different needs, others leave a different light for a different square foot of the house. We most often end up using one light more than the others, probably because our pocket is closer than the end table.

Don't worry about finding more uses for your flashlights; you will. If you followed my advice and hid your wallet deep enough, I bet you'll soon be using a flashlight to retrieve it so you can buy that other flashlight. I often use a headlamp to maintain and repair my flashlights. We also often take a flashlight out of the bag and use it to find another flashlight in the same bag. Uses are limitless!
 
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