If toughness and reliablity is concern; Surefire or HDS?

I've been seriously thinking about investing in a tough and durable light after hearing all these disasters. I had 2 surefire (G2L and E1L) before and it's quite durable. I never had a HDS light, but read some really impressive reviews about it. I am a AA format guy, but it seems like HDS and Surefire doesn't make a lot of AA lights with the exception of E2L-AA. I guess I can't win all the time. With a max of $150, which brand do you recommend?


I currently have a Eagletac P100a2, E01, and 2011 Inova X1 (dual mode)

I guess it depends what you are looking for. Water resistance means everything to me so that rules out surefire.

dd61999 said:

I guess it depends what you are looking for. Water resistance means everything to me so that rules out surefire.

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That is one of my main concern as well. Surefire is not water resistance? Really?

HDS lights, from what I gather, as as tough as they get, certainly as tough and durable as most Surefire's, however, my biggest criticism of HDS is their lack of model selection. Sure, you can fully customize your light to endless possibilities, but it's still the same light under all that bling if you will. HDS seriously needs to put some variety into their lineup, with AA powered lights as well as 2 and possibly even 3 cell lights as well.

Toughest light ever?

My vote goes to the Elzetta ZFL-M60.

I am really picky about having solid lights. I have an HDS, Malkoffs, Elzetta, Fenix, and I have previously owned some Surefire.
Elzetta is the toughest light I have ever seen. And it has a Malkoff light engine with the P60 drop-in capability for upgrading, and it is available with a hi/lo tailcap switch too. Fully Lego-able with other Elzetta parts. They have different heads(crenelated or plain), bodies(2 or 3 cell), tailswitches(twist, hi/lo, strobe), light engines(Malkoff throw or flood).
You can hammer nails with it, while it's turned on, and not even a flicker.

If you look on Ebay, you can find a model(brand new) with the 2-stage(hi/lo) tailcap switch for under $150. If you buy direct from Elzetta, or a full-retail dealer, it will cost more than $150.
Very hard to beat.

Edited to add:
About your AA requirement, the Elzetta is standard with 123 batteries. However, the 3-cell model will also accept a pair of AA batteries too, because they fit in the same length as 3x123. Then, you need to get a light engine which is designed to work on the lower voltage 2xAA batteries, so you go to Malkoff's site and order an M31 drop-in module, and put that in your Elzetta head with the 2xAA batteries in the 3-cell tube, and your light is now a 2AA light instead of a 3x123 light.
Of course that costs more to do, but that's how we get 2AA into the picture

The other thing you can do is go to Battery Junction and get their 3v 14505 lithium primary(AA sized) batteries for $1.50 each. Then you don't have to change the light engine because the pair o 3v 14505 gives you 6v, which will drive the M60 light engine just fine. Another way to skin the cat.
One of the most versatile packages you can find anywhere.

With the HDS, you can get a 2AA battery tube for it too, but it will cost extra, and that will put you over the $150 price you specified also.
If I had to choose, for similar money spent, and similar size(with the HDS having the 2AA tube) I'd choose the Elzetta.
Unfortunately, depending on how you approach this, it's gonna put you over you price specification with either one of these lights, to use 2AA batteries with them. But you can do it.

most surefires and HDS toughness and reliability are through the roof, so you can assure yourself about those. service and warranty are also second to none.

with single cell surefires, youll have 2 modes. and TIR beam.
if you looking at the E1B, E1L, and L1.
i personally like the E1L and L1 alot. low mode first. ok with RCR123.

with HDS you can program and set your modes. or have the rotary UI.
another difference is the electronic switch as opposed to the mechanical switch.
I have grown to like electronic switches more after using my HDS. its quieter for night time prowling. also works well with the double and triple clicking you might have to do with the HDS UI.
HDS lights also have lower low modes. which is what i use most the time.
high CRI option is probably the biggest reason why i prefer my HDS.

either way, youll have an EDC that will serve you well for a very long time.

Maybe Peak for 1xAA, but don't expect much customer service from them....I contacted them some time ago and I never heard back.
I was checking to see if they can do a 2xAA body only for me....
Is annoying to say the least, when a light manufacturer is in the custom forum and you don't hear back from them.

Depends what qualities you want in a light. For me, the HDS is a fantastic light with the multi and programmable modes. I have no complaints with SF either but mine are older models.

marinemaster, call Peak direct, you will get an answer then and there. In the past, I've called in orders directly. I had broken one of the Matterhorn/Eiger bodies and they had a replacement quickly. Peak may not have lots of light configurations though I like the USa base and service that I will continue to go to them. Much how I view HDS/RA.

HDS is very solid talking about the body. But I think there is too much electronics in it that can break. My HDS light is less than 9 months old and it's now defective for the second time. It's the most expensive and least reliable light I own.
I would suggest Malkoff MD2, Elzetta ZFL-M60 or SureFire C2 with Malkoff Drop-In.
For AA, you could get a Malkoff Valiant Little Twisty 2xAA with a M31. Twisty switch so nothing to break.

And let me add the Fenix TK20. I think it has a good reputation for a tough 2xAA light. And you can get three or four of them for the price of one SureFire or HDS. Two is one, and one is none.

Regards,
Jonas

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This is the second time I've seen someone post that Surefires aren't water resistant. What are you smoking?

JoVo said:

For AA, you could get a Malkoff Valiant Little Twisty 2xAA with a M31. Twisty switch so nothing to break.

Regards,
Jonas

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Are Malkoff lights up to par with Surefire and HDS? I used to have one of his M60 drop-in when it was engraved by him.

The Zlzetta looks really tough!

But I really want a single cell light if it's CR123 format.

dealgrabber2002 said:

Are Malkoff lights up to par with Surefire and HDS? I used to have one of his M60 drop-in when it was engraved by him.

The Zlzetta looks really tough!

But I really want a single cell light if it's CR123 format.

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I don't know if they are up to par with Surefire or HDS but from what I've read over the years them seem to be very good, soild, reliable lights.

JoVo said:

HDS is very solid talking about the body. But I think there is too much electronics in it that can break. My HDS light is less than 9 months old and it's now defective for the second time. It's the most expensive and least reliable light I own.

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And in my experience, my HDS Clicky has been the most versatile, most durable, most reliable light I've ever owned. So which one of us is "right"?

No matter what brand you buy, you can always find someone who's had a bad experience with it, but there are clearly some brands that are objectively superior to the others, and HDS is one of those brands.

Brasso said:

This is the second time I've seen someone post that Surefires aren't water resistant. What are you smoking?

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Sorry, just based on my experience and others here on CPF. Even Surefire just rates them weatherproof.

You have to split "toughness" from "reliability". Any light no matter how "tough" can fail, so the answer to "reliability" is "have a backup or two", not "have a beefier light". As for toughness, if you can step on it with work boots and it won't crush or bend, that's enough in my book.

Have a look at the dive lights. They're among the "toughest" ones. And get several of them to address "reliability".

Nap.

dd61999 said:

Sorry, just based on my experience and others here on CPF. Even Surefire just rates them weatherproof.

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Literally just got back from water testing my 6P host with double tail O rings. I put a string on it and threw it into my huge 1 cubic metre water tank and banged it around and left it for 25 minutes. Zero water even got near the head O ring. The first tail O ring has some water on it but that's just from being exposed to water. The second tail O ring had zero water and threads were dry as a bone.
Conclusion? Surefire's pretty darn waterproof, I don't think the second O ring in the tail is even necessary except if you are manipulating the twisty switch.

My recommendation? Surefire 9P, SS bezel, Oveready O ring pack. Malkoff M31W, 2AA to 3CR123 adapters.

This is a comparison between the two top notch brands in toughness and reliability. lol
My most tough and reliable lights are my HDS and Surefire.

I can only think that the way to settle this would be with an 'Ultimate Toughness Test', if there's such thing.

fl0t said:

This is a comparison between the two top notch brands in toughness and reliability. lol
My most tough and reliable lights are my HDS and Surefire.

I can only think that the way to settle this would be with an 'Ultimate Toughness Test', if there's such thing.

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I really just think it's up to personal preference, multimodes or one single mode. Although, the caveat would be that Surefire will require some modification and a Malkoff/similar HQ dropin. The HDS will be self contained when you buy it requiring no modifications to be an absolute rock.
My ideal EDC would be a High CRI Malkoff (which will be my Christmas present to myself this year) and my SF 6P/Z2 with M61W. One for smaller general tasks and one for "tactical"/emergency purposes; both as bombproof as it gets.
In the spirit of CPF, get both!

There is no doubt Surefire and HDS are very solid lights. Light per light, I'd get one of them, whichever fitted my needs better.

With that said, with $150 to spend, I'd get two Zebralights and save some cash, or three Zebralights and call it good.