Surefire P60L Behaving Weird

I can't figure this thing out.

I have a light on my Remington 870, the older Laser Products forend. I figured I'd step up from the P60 incan lamp, and bought a P60L from the Marketplace to put in there with a regular pyrex-lens bezel. A few days ago, I was trying it out and it wouldn't light up. Hrm... that's weird. I wiggled it and it would light up, then not light up. It would kind of go off and on while screwing the bezel down (and holding the switch in) but when the bezel was all the way down, no dice. I took it out and put it in a Surefire C2. It would flash on and off but not stay on consistently. It seemed to only work if the end of the reflector would contact the flashlight body. It's like the outer spring wasn't working. But I held a Cr123 battery up against the bottom, touching the inner spring with the positive terminal of the battey, and holding a piece of metal touching the negative terminal and the outer spring, and it would light up. I can't figure it out... it's like when it's in a light, the outer spring just doesn't want to be part of the circuit.

Oddly enough, I dug up my Z32 shock bezel (I had sold the one that came with the forend) and put it on the shotgun forend with a P60 incan, and it works perfectly. I guess you can't mess with what works. I'm probably going to call Surefire tomorrow and see what's up and try to get a replacement P60L. The reason I GOT the thing was to have a supported Surefire LED module in the Surefire weaponlight. Grr...

the P60L was never a particularly good product, a far cry from most of Surefire's other equipment and not at all indicative of any other Surefire LED products.
Unfortunately, the module has both insufficient heatsinking coupled with a fragile design.

If you want a truly durable Surefire-compatible LED module, look no further than Malkoff Devices

Oh, and the P60L module has been discontinued by Surefire for quite some time, so i'm afraid it's unlikely they'll be able to offer you a replacement.

Frankly, i'm not sure what they'll do

My bet is offer a new KX4 head but I could be wrong or they have old stock of the P60L.

They may yet have some P60Ls lying around. I sent in my burnt out P60L earlier this year and received another after a 6 week wait. Everything's fine so far with it.

Likely, the last batch made went into warranty inventory rather than shipped to dealers if they expected to discontinue it.

Now when they run out, I'd imagine they might send a KX4, and when the KX4's run out, would you get a 6PX or something along those lines?

Back before SureFire transitioned from their incandescent Lamp Assemblies to their dedicated LED bezels (such as the KX4), they offered an interim LED Lamp Assembly (P60L). Due to the variety and product 'changes' over many years the P60L was better suited to some models more than others.
SureFire offered the P60L along with a slightly longer version of the "Z44" standard bezel to prevent over-compression of the spring contacts and damage to the assembly when used on Classic WeaponLights. Also the P60L didn't operate at normal output in shock isolated bezels because there was insufficient path for heat to sink to the bezel/body and dissipate resulting in the P60L's thermal sensor throttling back the output to prevent overheating and damage to the LED.

I suggest giving SureFire a call.

I also suggest looking at alternatives to the P60L for WeaponLight use.
There are three main SureFire options:
KX4 dedicated LED bezel http://www.surefire.com/KX4-LED-Conversion-Head
Or LM1 (single-SF123A) or LM2 (two-SF123A)
http://www.surefire.com/LM1
http://www.surefire.com/LM2

Cypher_Aod said:

If you want a truly durable Surefire-compatible LED module, look no further than Malkoff Devices

Click to expand...

Dude, I'm right there, my C2 sports an M60, old school engraved with the optic. LOVE IT! If I had more than one of those, the other one would be in the 870.

Size15's said:

Back before SureFire transitioned from their incandescent Lamp Assemblies to their dedicated LED bezels (such as the KX4), they offered an interim LED Lamp Assembly (P60L). Due to the variety and product 'changes' over many years the P60L was better suited to some models more than others.
SureFire offered the P60L along with a slightly longer version of the "Z44" standard bezel to prevent over-compression of the spring contacts and damage to the assembly when used on Classic WeaponLights. Also the P60L didn't operate at normal output in shock isolated bezels because there was insufficient path for heat to sink to the bezel/body and dissipate resulting in the P60L's thermal sensor throttling back the output to prevent overheating and damage to the LED.

I suggest giving SureFire a call.

I also suggest looking at alternatives to the P60L for WeaponLight use.
There are three main SureFire options:
KX4 dedicated LED bezel http://www.surefire.com/KX4-LED-Conversion-Head
Or LM1 (single-SF123A) or LM2 (two-SF123A)
http://www.surefire.com/LM1
http://www.surefire.com/LM2

Click to expand...

Al, thanks for the info. I knew the P60L wasn't the best one out there, but I figured it would at least go with the other SF parts. I emailed SF back when I got the forend light and got a response on the use of the P60L particularly as a weaponlight lamp and got the reply:
"The P60L would be more than capable of performing duties as a weapon mounted light."

I was using it with a standard Z44 and not the shock-iso Z32 specifically because of the heat management issue. Didn't know they had an extra longe one. Oh well, I'm not broken up about it, I have other options to keep it running. I consider myself fairly knowledgeable about SF parts and compatiblity and troubleshooting, and this was just weird with the intermittent behavior. I'll keep you guys posted as to what they say.

I just keep a TLR-1 on my 870... Does a good enough job and it's small... Plus it hasn't failed me after thousands of rounds.... I would feel perfectly comfortable mounting anything made by Gene on my beloved shottie...

I gave them a call and I now have an RMA, so I'm going to send it in. I have other lights, and I got the forend running with the original incan configuration for now, so I'm not dead in the water, light-wise.

shao.fu.tzer said:

I just keep a TLR-1 on my 870... Does a good enough job and it's small... Plus it hasn't failed me after thousands of rounds.... I would feel perfectly comfortable mounting anything made by Gene on my beloved shottie...

Click to expand...

Shao, I love the TLR-1. I got to play with a railed 1911 (Kimber Warrior) that had the TLR-2 mounted on it in an indoor range, and it was phenomenal. Very bright, intuitive UI on a pistol. I was going back and forth on mounting one on a rail somewhere on the shotgun, but I searched around and got a good deal on the SF forend. I like the ability to activate it without moving my hands. The rail-mounted lights are fantastic, but knowing me I wouldn't have a good grip on the gun and probably whack myself in the hand with it under recoil. Thanks for the info! I may at some point have another long gun that needs a light and the TLR's will be at the top of the list.

sween1911 said:

Shao, I love the TLR-1. I got to play with a railed 1911 (Kimber Warrior) that had the TLR-2 mounted on it in an indoor range, and it was phenomenal. Very bright, intuitive UI on a pistol. I was going back and forth on mounting one on a rail somewhere on the shotgun, but I searched around and got a good deal on the SF forend. I like the ability to activate it without moving my hands. The rail-mounted lights are fantastic, but knowing me I wouldn't have a good grip on the gun and probably whack myself in the hand with it under recoil. Thanks for the info! I may at some point have another long gun that needs a light and the TLR's will be at the top of the list.

Click to expand...

I too have a Surefire forend on my 870 (the four railed one, not the one with the light, I forgot the model designation...M69??) I used to keep the TLR mounted far front on the underside rail, with low-profile ladder rail covers covering everything else, but have since (don't laugh, you wouldn't want to mess with it) mounted a LaserLyte/Ka-Bar pistol bayonet at the end of my extended mag tube. I've had to move the TLR to the sidesaddle side (left)... I've found both mounting styles to be completely comfortable and easy to operate. Of course, most people don't want a little bayonet on the end of their 12 gauges, but, I'll be damned if I ever turn a corner and have someone try to grab and control my weapon by the barrel end!!! I consider it more for weapons retention rather than offensive purposes.

But you should listen to Size15's... He knows what he's talking about... It probably is an overcompression problem... Some kind of contact issue to be sure...

Shao

shao.fu.tzer said:

But you should listen to Size15's... He knows what he's talking about... It probably is an overcompression problem... Some kind of contact issue to be sure...

Click to expand...

Oh I always listen, Al is the EF Hutton of Surefires!

shao.fu.tzer said:

I too have a Surefire forend on my 870 (the four railed one, not the one with the light, I forgot the model designation...M69??) I used to keep the TLR mounted far front on the underside rail, with low-profile ladder rail covers covering everything else, but have since (don't laugh, you wouldn't want to mess with it) mounted a LaserLyte/Ka-Bar pistol bayonet at the end of my extended mag tube. I've had to move the TLR to the sidesaddle side (left)... I've found both mounting styles to be completely comfortable and easy to operate. Of course, most people don't want a little bayonet on the end of their 12 gauges, but, I'll be damned if I ever turn a corner and have someone try to grab and control my weapon by the barrel end!!! I consider it more for weapons retention rather than offensive purposes.

But you should listen to Size15's... He knows what he's talking about... It probably is an overcompression problem... Some kind of contact issue to be sure...

Shao

Click to expand...

Maybe at that point the best weapons retention device would be that little curved lever-like thingie sitting right under your trigger finger?

Sorry. Couldn't resist.

Regardless, I thought the P60L WAS the solution for the weapon light shock problem?

dss_777 said:

Regardless, I thought the P60L WAS the solution for the weapon light shock problem?

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When used as the BP60L combination of specific bezel and P60L.

But as I mentioned there are dedicated LED bezels that are superior.

dss_777 said:

Regardless, I thought the P60L WAS the solution for the weapon light shock problem?

Click to expand...

That's what I was thinking going into this thing! I had no idea there was a Z44 with slightly different dimensions for the P60L. My email to Surefire asking about using the P60L for this application made no mention of a different bezel, just that the P60L was "more than capable of performing duties as a weapon mounted light". And I did it specifically to improve upon the reliability of the P60 in the standard L60 that's on the gun. With the P60L, I used a standard HA (Al: please note no other numbers or symbols needed to identfy finish! ) Z44 bezel with a pyrex lens.

Just talked to my wife on the phone before leaving work. There was indeed a box from Surefire delivered today containing a new P60L. I gotta say though, I'm thinking I'd leave the P60 and the shock-iso bezel on the shotgun just because it's not a light I use a lot and I have more faith in the P60 working when I need it to. If I decided to go back to putting the P60L on the shotgun, is there anything I can do to avoid messing it up in the future?

Cypher_Aod said:

Oh, and the P60L module has been discontinued by Surefire for quite some time, so i'm afraid it's unlikely they'll be able to offer you a replacement.

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When a KL2 failed last year, Surefire sent me a brand new in box replacement. I bet they still have some P60L's laying around.

Paladin

Paladin said:

When a KL2 failed last year, Surefire sent me a brand new in box replacement. I bet they still have some P60L's laying around.

Paladin

Click to expand...

Indeed. Surefire appear to have voluminous stocks of spare parts, what an awesome company.

Yup, they sent me a brand new P60L that works perfectly. It's only a little AngryBlue. I'm hesistant to use it in the shotgun forend again though.

Do you guys think that caused the P60L to go bad?

sween1911 said:

Do you guys think that caused the P60L to go bad?

Click to expand...

Only one way to find out...

carrot said:

Only one way to find out...

Click to expand...

Well, it's off to the range, then!