Manufacturers Failing Me

You know i love to buy flashlights. Nothing more fun than that package in the mail....and they always seem to come on Fridays for some reason.

The sad fact is nothing out there now really interests me. TK70 too big, TK41 too green, 4sevens never pushes amps hard enough (for my taste), Surefire charges too much etc.

I don't know what I want but I'll know it when I see it.... and nothing even temps me. :-[

Check out Zebralight... They have 3 items coming out that have made me stop buying anything else untill they arrive, the SC80w, Q50 and H502w. I must have them all!!!!!!

No reason to stop buying now. Buy for your wife, or girlfriend.

Same here. I want to buy a nice 18650 XM-L light, but after looking at 26 lights from 19 different manufacturers (pretty much all of them), there is not a single one that tempts me. And the worst thing is that I really had situations where my old AA light was too weak and I could have used a brighter flashlight, but I can't order one that I don't like.

Serial Chiller said:

Same here. I want to buy a nice 18650 XM-L light, but after looking at 26 lights from 19 different manufacturers (pretty much all of them), there is not a single one that tempts me. And the worst thing is that I really had situations where my old AA light was too weak and I could have used a brighter flashlight, but I can't order one that I don't like.

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This makes me sad. Someone who invests such time and energy into finding the perfect light should be rewarded with a great light that suits all their needs. It definitely sounds like you've done your homework but I'm still curious to know what combination of features you're looking for that they can't be found among what I consider to be many great 18650 options.

Start modding, if manufacturers don't make what you are looking for you can always make it yourself. I enjoy making my own lights more than buying existing ones now

good suggestions here for you. I know what you speak of. I myself have gone thru this and to solve the problem I took a step back and really thought about what I valued most in a lite. I ended up realizing for me its not the britest light but the most solid reliable light I can buy for a reasonable amount f money on a tight budget. Trust me I am still constantly tempted by the latest and greatest brightest light out there and some of the fun I used to have in the hunt is gone but when I take out my small collection of bomb proof Malkoffs and Peaks I rememeber my priorities and get that warm loving feeling knowing I have some of the best pieces of gear I can obtain in my hands.

I guess it's kind of like a young beer drinking college student maturring and discovering the subtle nuances of a fine bottle of wine and a good cigar on a Friday eveing kind of thing. You start appreciating the finer details of tru quality and purpose driven functionality. To me when form and function meld as one it becomes true art. Try looking for that in the lights you have instead of always searching for the next best thing.

GeoBruin said:

It definitely sounds like you've done your homework but I'm still curious to know what combination of features you're looking for that they can't be found among what I consider to be many great 18650 options.

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1. High Output on max (>450lm) -> Eliminates Nitecore IFE2 and Armytek Predator
2. Really low "low" (at least <10lm, better <5lm) -> Eliminates most XM-L lights
3. Thought-out UI that makes the low mode easily accessible and usable -> Eliminates Jetbeam RRT21*, Eagletac T20C2, Sunwayman V20C and many other lights
4. Neither extreme flooder nor extreme thrower -> Eliminates Spark SL6, Shiningbeam S-Mini XM-L, Armytek Predator and Zebra SC600
5. Decent runtime on "low" -> Eliminates Jetbeam RRT21 and Sunwayman V20C

*I even ordered a Jetbeam RRT-21 and used it but I sent it back to the dealer. The selector ring is nice, but it only allows precise control on the higher outputs. Finding the lowest mode is really hard and once it is switched off on the lowest mode it does not come on again before the selector ring is moved to higher output.

The Fenix TK21 would have been perfect, but the "turbo"-mode seems to be deactivated much too early, long before the batteries are dead.

I think my problem is that I want a flashlight that is usable for close up work, reading, etc., but also provides very high output and at least a little bit of throw when needed. Most flashlights are either made for high output and tactical situations or for close-up work and general use around the house. I want both in one flashlight.

Armytek said they want to introduce two new XM-L-models, one thrower and a more floody EDC. If the EDC is a nice mix between flood and throw, this will probably be the right flashlight for me. Armytek allows me to configure the light just the way I want it. I don't mind spending hours at home trying to figure out how to program the light, as long as it works in the field just the way I want it to.

Excellent post Purelite! Very much the same as my feelings.

I have found that light-du-jour flashaholics seem to burn out more quickly. Always chasing the fanciest newest lights is not satisfying, as there is always something newer or fancier.

I have sold a variety of lights, and try to keep my collection to a number of lights where I can reasonably use them all on a fairly regular basis, and assign 'uses' to all of them. For me that number has hovered around 30 for awhile now. I am now on the search for the lights that best fit each of those uses. If I find that one is not getting a lot of use, or I don't like it how I thought I would, I get rid of it, and look for something else to take its place. For me, I have found the few 'genres' of lights that I need and use, and I focus only on those styles and makers. I want the lights I have to be the most ideal ones for each use I can find. Thus, I'd rather have a smaller number of really great lights than tons of so-so lights. I also don't do shelf queens. Nothing is less fun than having stuff you can't play with. :shakehead Use your lights. All of them. That will rekindle your excitement about them. And forget about lumens. The dark ain't getting darker. Find lights that are a pleasure to use, even if they 'only' put out 100 lumens. There are still killer lights out there that aren't necessarily the brightest. Also, take pleasure in the hunt. Find special things that are a little out of your price range, and then wait to buy them til you can. The chase is half the fun, and obtaining it is that much sweeter.

recDNA said:

....I don't know what I want but I'll know it when I see it.... and nothing even temps me. :-[

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:devil: - Customs ?

nbp said:

I have sold a variety of lights, and try to keep my collection to a number of lights where I can reasonably use them all on a fairly regular basis, and assign 'uses' to all of them. For me that number has hovered around 30 for awhile now. I am now on the search for the lights that best fit each of those uses. If I find that one is not getting a lot of use, or I don't like it how I thought I would, I get rid of it, and look for something else to take its place. For me, I have found the few 'genres' of lights that I need and use, and I focus only on those styles and makers. I want the lights I have to be the most ideal ones for each use I can find. Thus, I'd rather have a smaller number of really great lights than tons of so-so lights. I also don't do shelf queens. Nothing is less fun than having stuff you can't play with. :shakehead Use your lights. All of them. That will rekindle your excitement about them. And forget about lumens. The dark ain't getting darker. Find lights that are a pleasure to use, even if they 'only' put out 100 lumens. There are still killer lights out there that aren't necessarily the brightest. Also, take pleasure in the hunt. Find special things that are a little out of your price range, and then wait to buy them til you can. The chase is half the fun, and obtaining it is that much sweeter.

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Exactly my thoughts and exactly what I do. scary.

Except for it being 12 lumens, the TK-35 was the closest to fitting Serial Chiller's requirements. Mind you, I don't see much of a difference between 10 lumens and 12 lumens. Certainly nothing like 0.2 lumens and 12 lumens.

At this stage, I'd suggest going custom and seeing if anyone can put together a light like what you both want. My LiOnHeart is still going strong after all these years, even though its emitter is several generations behind the times. It's quite easily programmable, and I have the lowest low I can get on it as my initial startup mode, with the second mode being the max one.

tre said:

Exactly my thoughts and exactly what I do. scary.

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Nah. It just means you're cool.

Mac's Customs 3300L (actually, 4110L with the 1550ma boards). It might take you 6 months to get it but what's cooler than 4000L in a good ole' customized M@G?!?

RecDNA, I completely agree. My biggest issue is that manufacs are obsessed with the cool white versions of all LEDs, and no one cares about warm white anymore. Even 4Sevens doesn't seem to do much with warm LEDs anymore. I'd love a big ol' 2x18650 thrower, but everyone uses these cool white LEDs.

Same issues: Surefire too expensive, 4Sevens not bright enough (although I love them a lot still), and I don't trust most of the Chinese brands. Modded or custom made lights are sweet...but they tend to lack features that 4Sevens and others provide, and are costly. Custom makers seem to be too focused on FLASHY stuff, or BRIGHT stuff, but nothing feature rich and reasonably priced. But that's why it's custom I guess. And modding requires tools.

Rec has a knack for sparking the most interesting discussions…

jcw122 said:

Custom makers seem to be too focused on FLASHY stuff, or BRIGHT stuff

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Small shops (and individuals) don't have to follow many of the rules that manufacturers do, but they still must follow the most important: value proposition. Locally made, smaller batches means it will cost more. So without something to set it apart, to give value to the extra cost, few will buy. This is where extra value comes in. It can be more of anything, but bigger numbers are the easiest to understand, easiest to sell. Being unique or collectible only gets you so far.

BTW, the bigger a formerly small shop gets, the more of the rules they tend to follow. Back when 47 made a few hundred lights at a time, with half of them going to CPFers, it was easy to make extra emitter options. As they get more mass market, fewer customers will care what "warm white" provides, only that it means smaller (lumen) numbers on the package. 1000+ at a batch, there's less room to make 50 with a special LED.

jcw122 said:

Modded or custom made lights are sweet...but they tend to lack features that 4Sevens and others provide

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What are your top three?

I've long given up on mass produced lights. I have sold nearly my entire collection, and have only 3 lights I use regularly. A High CRI modded Quark AA Ti, a Solarforce L2p with a Kerberos High CRI triple dropin, and a Mac's 3300L with High CRI emitters driven at 1550mA.

I don't suppose you've spotted a theme?

The Quark is pocketable and tough. It gives me low lows, and a useful high.

The solarforce has decent runtime on low and 500 lumens for an hour in my jacket pocket.

The 3300L can light up a paddock for 45 mins or 50 lumens for 300 hours.

Between the 3 of them, all of my needs are met.

Hard to imagine someone out there doesn't make what you want. Just have to be willing to pay for it.

recDNA said:

You know i love to buy flashlights. Nothing more fun than that package in the mail....and they always seem to come on Fridays for some reason.

The sad fact is nothing out there now really interests me. .. :-[

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I know what you mean... For me, flashlight purchases have been less frequent: only 1 light this year so far - a Quark XML - and that was just to keep my quark collection up-to-date.

I think it's a combination of things:

1) Most of the manufacturers seem to going to large lights with proprietary battery systems which are impractical for 99.9% of all users, 99/9% of the time - including me. I saw this coming about a year ago when that's all anyone was talking about, but hey it's their money, they're just not getting any of mine. It's almost like the manufacturer's are vying for bragging rights - what a waste of resources.

2) Because I am mostly interested in practical/tactical EDC type lights, there's not really much new. Sure, XML lights are all over the place but at decreased throw and frankly they seem a little less from an efficiency standpoint. I would have much preferred to see Cree continue with the XP-G line maybe an S5 or a T(x)...

3) I have been using the same EDC for a couple of years and see nothing that looks to be a replacement (Quark Ti tactical)

4) I have become much more finicky about what I want and I am tired of adapting my behavior to someone else's concept of what the UI should be.

The only light I have even been slightly tempted with is the JB RRT-21. Because it can take an 18650 and the infinitely variable output in a relatively small package. But then I read about the issues with the light not coming on if the very lowest output setting is selected and that the control output is linear instead of logarithmic. I could live with the control output issue, but not having the light come on at the lowest setting is a deal-breaker. So now I am waiting to see if JB comes out with a "fix" for this. If not, the search goes on.

....I don't know what I want but I'll know it when I see it.... and nothing even temps me. :-[

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Then how in the heck do you expect anyone else to know what you want?! Hey consider yourself lucky, because I know exactly what I want, and as simple as that is, it has yet to be made (custom or otherwise, at any price). If you don't know, then you must be pretty happy with your current stable, or else you'd have specific problems in mind that you want to see manufacturers rectify. Wish I were there!

Serial Chiller said:

1. High Output on max (>450lm) -> Eliminates Nitecore IFE2 and Armytek Predator
2. Really low "low" (at least <10lm, better <5lm) -> Eliminates most XM-L lights
3. Thought-out UI that makes the low mode easily accessible and usable -> Eliminates Jetbeam RRT21*, Eagletac T20C2, Sunwayman V20C and many other lights
4. Neither extreme flooder nor extreme thrower -> Eliminates Spark SL6, Shiningbeam S-Mini XM-L, Armytek Predator and Zebra SC600
5. Decent runtime on "low" -> Eliminates Jetbeam RRT21 and Funnyman

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If #1 isn't an OTF or ANSI requirement, the new d25lc2 pretty much nails the rest of them- 3 lumen low for over 100hrs, turns on in low first, 6,900 lux/31° spill. Thinking about one from this lineup myself.