Help me make a thrower.

I want to make a realitively small light with ALOT of throw.

The hosts I have avalible are: mclux, PR Mclux, Arc Grey Kit, MiniMag.

I know that generally incans throw better. But I dont like their runtimes, or color.

I have a 5W 2D Mag mod in the works, and that should throw rather well. But its on the larger side.
I would like to make a good thrower out of one of the above hosts.

I hear alot about 1Wers out throwing 5Wers. But I am not sure of the point where a 5W is putting out more light at long distances.

So... From the hosts above, what configuration would you use to get the most throw?

jtice,
I've often wondered about this myself and have recently been looking into it seriously. I've discussed the matter via PMs with CM. Both he and I have experimented with different optics and reflectors.

First let me say this and I hope that someone chimes in if I'm wrong. You want THROW. Is this all you want. I mean, are you looking for a strickly long range light with no sidespill? I think that getting throw will be more dependent on the optic or reflector that you use. Of the hosts that you listed above, I'm gonna say that you could narrow your selection down to one of the two McLuxes and using a 1W high dome. It's my understanding that the 1W luxeons allow for a more concentrated beam, simply due to the fact that the source of light in a 1W is 1/4 the size of the light source from a 5W.

The PR has developed a reputation for being able to concentrate a beam and still provide for sidespill making it a very useful beam.

I, myself, have experimented with the low profile fraen optic. My experimentation has been limited to messing with KL1's, but it is my understanding that the LP Fraens can be made to work in a McLux head. In using the LP fraens, I've found that this particular optic is very efficient. In comparing two virtually identical KL1's, one with an NX05 and the other with the LP fraen, I found that the fraen equipped KL1 put out noticeably more light.

The beam characteristics of the Fraen LP are such that, and this is a little hard to describe, the sidespill is all but eliminated. All that is put out is a hotspot. That statement is a little misleading though. It isn't a needle beam. The beam does grow usefully over distances making a light equipped with the fraen a great long range light. I have a KL1 that has been overdriven to 700mA and is equipped with an R2K and a Fraen LP optic. This head will easily out throw every other 1W I have. This includes a 3D M@g mod I did direct driving a Q3J using a regular Fraen optic.

Another option that you might want to consider is using the McLux PR head with a 30mm optic. You will have to turn down the optic to make it fit. CM modded a KL3 with one of these running an overdriven 1W and he said that it threw as far as a 2 cell surefire.

My next project is going to involve the McLux PR. I've heard plenty of good things about this setup. Great throw and good sidespill. It should be easy too. I'd go with an R2K being driven by a downboy 700. The reason that I'm planning on using an R2K rather than a Q3J or any other 3 is because I've found that the warmer tinted LED throw better outdoors. It looks to be closer to sunlight.

I know I've just been babbling. I hope that you got something useful out of all of this.

On a last note, you said small. How small? McLux or McLux PR? Really small would be McLux with Fraen LP on an E1e body. Since you'd be talking about driving it with a single 123, you could try an R2H or Q3J to maximize runtime and drive it with a badboy 700. I only make mention of the E1e because I'm not wild about Krolls and stick with the Surefire bodies.

Having used all of your options, the PM6 reflector blows all the others away. There simply isn't any comparison. The Pelican reflector will far outperform *anything* that could fit in your other choices. I haven't used the McLux PR head, but I have had both 1w and 5w in the PM6 with a mcmodule, and while the 5w does put out a massive amount of light, the 1w does throw farther and in general is more usable for most tasks. A 1x123 McLux PR with a BB500 (or maybe even a 700) would throw like a mofo.

Edit: BTW, this McLux PR head with a 1w and BB700 for my 1x123 McLux will be my next project.

Chop,

Sounds good. Thanks for the info.

I an mot concerned at all with spill light on this perticular light. It can have no spill what so ever.
I am concerned with getting all the light in a TIGHT beam so it will throw as far as possible.

I have seen the LP Freans, and yes, they look alot better than the nx05.
But, it seems that ppl are saying the pelican reflector in the PR mclux throws very well. Better than any optic.

I would recommend a PR Mclux using a 1 watt emitter on a McLux body (or e1). You will not be able to beat that for the combination of size and throw.
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
Now isn't that right, Don?
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Jtice,

I don't know how soon you are starting you project but I am going to try and take some pics this weekend. When I first took delivery of my McLux PR 1W BB600 and McLux PR 5W MM750 I was amazed that the 1W threw this ball of light farther and brighter than the 5W. I don't build lights but I own the majority of the lights that you are considering and I can guarantee that you won't be disappointed in the 1W over the 5W. I have some more McLux PRs inbound and I just got the Turbo Head E2 that Don built with a 5W and I plan on taking beamshots of the following:

McLux PR BB600 R2H 1W 1x123
McLux PR BB750 X3T 5W 2x123
McLux PR DB750 X3T 5W 3x123
Surefire E2 Turbo 2x123 unknow 5W 2x123
Surefire KL4
Pelican PM6 MM+750 W3V 5W 2x123
Pelican PM6 MM+750 V2T 5w 2x123
Pelican PM6 R2H BB500 1W 2x123


The trick is going to be to get a section of wall gridded out to act as a point of reference between the lights and to try and show the sidespill versus the throw. Given that there are skylights into the building I need to do it early in the morning.

My initial impromptu testing though convinced me that the 1W was the way to go. The 1W McLux PR is sort of the M3 of the LED world right in small lights. I haven't gotten into the Space Needle and LGI type lights only because I am not sure I would have them with me. The McLux PR in a 1W with the BB600 is the first LED that I have owned that I would consider to be a "tactical" LED. While the L4 made a great pocket light, and has a very viable lighting effect, it has minimal throw.

I agree with jtice, for most purposes I prefer a floodlike beam, but sometimes you just want distance, and in those situations I don't care about sidespill at all.

In terms of pure throw, how would you say a maximal 1W LS (overdriven, high flux) LED in a Pelican reflector compares to the stock Pelican M6 incandescent lamp?

Great input here guys. Keep it up. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif

I plan to drive the LED at about 750mA.
Probalby a BB750. To keep it small. (1 or 2x123)

So far, this seems to be verifing what I thought.
A 1W will be the best for throw.

The bad thing is, I kinda wanted to make my PR Mclux 5W. Sence it is made to handle the 5W heat better.
And then use the 1Wers in my original Mclux.

I know, I know, get two PR heads. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif
I hate the fact that I cant use a 5W to have alot of overall light output, but it wont throw. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif

jtice,
It seems that the consensus is the PR. I think that's the way I'm gonna go too.

Tyler,
Make sure you post the results of your 1x123 PR build. I'm really interested in the runtime and performance. I'd love to have a fire plug that put out that much light. BTW, had you given any thought to using the MadMax rather than the BB in a one cell light running at that current? I've been toying with the idea simply because of the MM's ability to suck a batt dry. Anyone have any input?

The McLux-PR will out perform any of the other mentioned possibilities by a considerable margin in terms of a focused beam with ability to illuminate at a distance. The secret is in the Pelican reflector. What still amazes me is that the 1W can be set up with this reflector and off one 123 cell, do so well! I designed the McLux-PR with thermal considerations for a 5W. With an overdriven 1W, I think the mass and surface area will still be friendly and allow for longer runs without excesive heat. On a 2x123, the PR is great. On a 1x123, it does look a bit like a fire plug. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif With a BB600, I think the mass will help keep the temp down and the flux up. I have been working on some proto re machined versions where the extra beef is being removed. I think this form of head might be better suited for a BB400 or even a BB600 if only used for short durations. I have stayed away from BB700 and BB750's on a 1x123 as I think the converter is asking a bit much from 1 cell. A downboy 700 with a 1W on 2x123 is a better bet I think if max brightness coupled with good runtime is the target.

An overdriven 1W will not hold up to the stock PM6 incandescent but it actually does at least get into the running.

The Fraen LP is a pretty cool optic and it merges available light from the normal wide flood and tight spot into a combined beam that is between the two in beam angle and broad enough that you can likely get by without the side spill. The Pelican reflector on the other hand provides a much tighter and brighter spot beam while the spill of flood is still ample for close to medium illumination.

This is all just MHO and what I have experienced. YMMV.

- Don

Don,
I've noticed that many modders fancy pushing a 1W to 1A. I myself have done this in a direct drive M@g mod and am pleased with the results. 1A just seems to ring every last little bit of light from a 1W, without heat getting WAY out of hand. In the case of the particular Q3J that I have anyway.

What do you think of a 2x123 setup using a downboy to drive the LED at 1A in the McLux PR? Too much heat? I'm looking for more than intermittent use. Batt life isn't much of a concern as long as I can get an hour. I'm using rechargebles.

Chop,

I had a 1W LED setup on the bench and recorded the lux against current. I don't have the numbers any more but I recall that somewhere between 600 and 700 mA, the slope of the curve dropped off some. I am sure you will get more lumens but I have no idea of the effacacy at the high current levels. SInce that is not of concern to you then I say go for it and try it. You have a good thermal mass and path with the PR but whether it is enough to keep the LED cool, I don't know. I suspect that steady state temp will be up there but you may get the length of "on" time you want before steady state is reached.

- Don

I cant wait for my mclux pr to arrive, i plan on 2x123 configuration, using the q3j, is the bb500 more than adequate for this setup?
thanks
Des

You will need a DownBoy convertor instead of a Badboy if you want to run a 1 watt LS from 2 CR123's.

Hi jtice,

Small format thrower - 1x123 McLux, Q- (or R-) binned 1W HD, MM+ W/O or BB700/750 board, Fraen Low Profile optic.

Medium format thrower - 2x123 McLux-PR, same Luxeon, DB700.

Large thrower - Mag 3D, same Luxeon, DirectDrive on 4.5V (for more manageable size you could use a 2D and sleeve it to accept three C's).

In fact that's what I'm going to build for my own use one a these days when I have some *real* free time.

Them's muh sekrit formulae... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[ QUOTE ]
jtice said:
I hate the fact that I cant use a 5W to have alot of overall light output, but it wont throw. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, it *will* throw, just not as far as the 1w.

In all fairness, there is one other pocket combination to consider here. That would be a KL4 modified with a 1W HD and driver for 1x123. I would put the intensity of its beam as comparable to the Fraen LP with the difference being that the KL4 has a slightly smaller center beam surrounded by a good flood fill.

On 1x123, I think the LED's have taken over the roost from the incans.

- Don

Mr Bulk, why sleeve a 2D down to three C's instead of just using a 3C host to begin with?

paulr,

My guess is that the D size Mag can provide better heat sinking. Via a larger diameter sink.

Ticey may have an overlooked and very valid point there, but I think the light just looks better proportionally, and in fact *may* even be a bit shorter than the 3C...anybody measured them?