Manufacturers decreasing build quality?

Hi all, I'm new to cpf but have been no stranger to the flashlight world, I have had many different brands in the past but haven't bought any for a while, recently I purchased a fenix tk35 and jetbeam rrt-21, both very good lights especially the jetbeam but is it just me or have the build quality of lights lowered to what they used to be? For example, the jetbeam anodizing seems to scratch quite easily, I had to send the first rrt-21 I received as it came with a couple of nicks on it and now the new one has already a light scratch on it, hardly noticeable but it wasn't there before, an older jetbeam I have (jet-III st) hasn't a mark on it, yet I use it all the time, also the fenix main body wall is quite thin, plastic battery holder and rattling switches on the tail (although I've got around the rattling by squeezing a bit of grease in the switch caps). Are other light manufacturers losing there quality too? Maybe it's just me, I don't know?

Welcome to CPF. If you do some searching, for example using google, cpf only, at the top of every page you will find several threads discussing the quality of various flashlights. You may also find out that some of them have been closed because they became to contentious. Do your searching and if you still want more info. then start another similar thread. Closing this one.

Bill

OP has PM'd me and presented a good argument to re-open this thread. I will be keeping an eye on it to see that CPF rules are maintained, particularly Rule 4.

Bill

It is interesting that moderators want to close this very relevant thread for fear that it might get contentious, while ignoring a totally irrelevant thread on "Cree stock."

lovemylexicon said:

It is interesting that moderators want to close this very relevant thread for fear that it might get contentious, while ignoring a totally irrelevant thread on "Cree stock."

Click to expand...

The thread was re-opened. Look back. Can not see all "irrelevant threads" unless brought to our attention, or we stumble into them. Watch your criticizing of mods. :shakehead

Bill

It seems like everything I buy these days is made cheaper and/or lighter.

A lot of the time it is less well made. Sometimes, it's lighter and cheaper, but only in ways that don't hurt the function.

Sometimes, it's something that ends up being less reliable or functional than before, but the price is enough lower that it's still the right choice for most customers.

Of course, a lot of stuff is being made cheaper, but isn't being sold any cheaper.

Everyone wants a cheaper price. Manufacturers do what they can to lower price - because customers want it and competitors are doing it. It's happening in many industries (including the one I work in).

It's not just Walmart.....

Incidentally, the moderators here do a pretty good job if keeping things civil & friendly, it's alot nicer area than some of the other sites (photography....)

lovemylexicon, take a week off for violation of Rule 8. Whining and complaining about the rules, in this case the actions of a moderator.

Bill

I very aware of the decreasing quality of virtually all things made today and some of these light manufacturers are obviously no exception. My intention is not to single out any particular brand (I'm very fond of fenix and jetbeam lights) it's just on these two particular models, my observed opinion was that certain aspects of quality are not as good as they used to be (on the rrt-21 my only concern was the anodizing) Obviously this is just my opinion but wanted to hear others thoughts on these models and if other brands are the same. I haven't seen any reviews directed specifically at these two models concerning there build quality compared to others. Are there are any recommended brands with similar specs to these lights but built better?

I personally feel the quality maybe has not dropped too far, it's just our standards and expectations have risen, and the manufacturers have not kept up their side of the equation as quickly as we want them to.

The only exception, and this is my own personal opinion, also produces one of my favorite and most used edc lights; the original EX10, and it has never let me down. Since then I have had a number of lights from this company and the quality definitely has gone down dramatically.

The last straw for me was the purchase of the EX11.2 and D11.2. Both went back and I got two new ones, and they were still problematic. I tried to keep my faith up but too many let-downs and the bubble finally burst for me at least. It's the only manufacturer of high quality lights that I feel is now run by bean-counters and not people with a passion for flashlights, and the quality is simply collateral damage in the never-ending penny-pinching antics to gain more profit. PLEASE, let the passion flow once again, don't let the bottom-line rule.

Other than that, quality is not too bad in general; I just love this hobby!

Like consumers, manufacturers are confronted with increasing prices and costs. There are two ways to maintain profit in this situation: increase the prices or save money. It is very easy to save money by cutting a few more threads with the same tool without jeopardizing the function of the light, the threads just don't fell as good as before, but they still work.

I think the OP raises an important point. It is true not just in the flashlight world. We all saw netflix just recently raise prices and try to break up the DVD and streaming services up (they stopped this when they lost almost 1 million customers!). In the older days, ATT one day just trashed their service quality, which had been famous for its helpfulness until then.

On flashlights, the same pressures apply. It is not just that costs go up. Once a company becomes well known, which it initially achieves by providing strong quality, it can (at least for a while) get higher profits by lowering quality but keeping prices level, or even raising them.

Quality by the way may not just mean actual material quality, but more things, such as interchangeability and consistency with older parts.

I had some negative experiences too, with companies that started strong and then quickly weakened. No need to name names.

Is there a solution? I think that custom makers cannot play this game too much, because they only have their reputation to keep them, they can't use advertising or pay incentives to retailers to carry their products.

For example I just recently got to use a Peak flashlight, and was impressed by its quality and value for money. So they managed to stay strong for several years now. Malkoff, Don (McGizmo) have also proved good over a long period of time.

In addition, if you go the Surefire Lego route, where you collect components that match the (now older) Surefire standards, you can always get high quality even if the producer of the components changes.

Are there exceptions? Sure, some custom makers have strayed, but were very quickly exposed here in fact (at CPF), and they lost their business just as fast.

So there are solutions to the lower quality over time problem. Don't rely on the company name alone, check the reviews before you buy, and make an effort to find out about the custom makers!

I can understand the that there is increasing pressure on companies to keep profits up, especially at the moment with all the "big credit crunch" problems, but surely if you decrease product quality you decrease your product status, the reason alot of people buy these lights is because they are state of the art, best of the best. That is the exact reason why I buy these brands, I could buy a cheap plastic cree light from my local DIY store or ebay special but I don't like cheap, as the saying goes here, 'buy cheap buy twice!'. I like the fact that I've got something special and not your ordinary everyday DIY product but I do fear that the line between cheap DIY and professional products is getting finer. I do hope that these product manufacturers listen to people and not stray down the 'cheap and cheerful, that'll do' route theres plenty of them already.

I think it's simply part of a larger trend. Marketplaces tend to bifurcate into high volume, low cost organizations (Wal-Mart being the exemplary big box, but they are legion) or high end, high service ones (all the boutiques - whether clothing or electronics). The middle ground - the old, pre-kmart Sears - has mostly disappeared.

And I find that's ok by me. When I care, I'll find the boutique. When I don't, I'll save a buck or three. And I think I'm not alone.

-jk

actually tail plate of tk35 fails often, it is its weakest link, even thou part cost pennies.
you think flashlights quality gets wost, lol, don't get me started on cars than.
however maglite still makes lights as good as it used to do, even thou some changes are made recently to d incandesent model, like switch design, it is still quality light as it has been 20 years ago.