Not a flashlight, but it'll LIGHT UP a perp

Not a flashlight, but it\'ll LIGHT UP a perp



Anyone have own one or have experience with one?

None other than Small Arm Review's Dan Shea (respected gun writer) gave the Taser M-series stun guns the thumbs up.

Bottom line, when it comes to assailants, it matters not what kind of martial arts training, nor drugs in the system, nor physical fortitude when you employ and hit'em with a Taser. That's because the electrical energy transferred shuts down--temporarily overwhelms and renders ineffective--an assailants Central Nervous System (CNS)...as a bonus its not terribly comfortable (for them).

These M-series stun guns are not your mama's stun-toy--the ineffectual, remote-control sized "stun guns" marketed towards ladies and joggers, the ones you buzz people with at parties for laughs. These are also not the same stun guns marketed by a now-defunct company under the model name "taser".

The M-series are electrical-pin-firing 18-Watt and 26-Watt (for LEO's only) units--some laser equipped--that transfer electrical energy thru the pins--disrupting an assailants CNS.

Many of the LEO's that hang out over at Usualsuspect.net swear by the Taser M-series guns, having they themselves been the recipient of the pins! They call it "Ride the Five"...for the five seemingly interminably seconds you get while being stunned. They also give very favorable reports of the Tasers being employed in the field against a variety of non-cooperative suspects. The only reason you haven't heard of more cops using them is probably funding--as these things cost about what a pistol would.

Anticipating the question, "yes" you can send "follow up" jolts to an assailant after the initial one if they remain uncooperative. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

And while I have firearms in the home, am trained, am mentally-disciplined and prepared to employ them--the reality is even a legally justifiable shooting of a criminal in your home has unhappy consequences.

So, I began shopping last year for a Taser M18-L and batted it around because of the $599.00 "street" price tag (MSRP $900+). Anyway, I just found one for sale for $390.00 at Cheaper Than Dirt! (a good outfit despite the cheesy name) and jumped on the deal. Just thought I'd mention it.

Re: Not a flashlight, but it\'ll LIGHT UP a perp

They're popular in Washington State, and in the Southwest and I believe L.A.P.D issues an older version to Patrol Supervisors. I've never seen one used in the Bay Area. I have heard that they work great.

--dan

Re: Not a flashlight, but it\'ll LIGHT UP a perp

There's a police force here in the UK that are currently trialing these, and there was a news article with a clip showing a volunteer getting zapped by one of these. The guy just dropped like he'd been poleaxed, left a couple of small red marks where the barbs went in (i've had beestings that looked far worse). If i remember correctly, they said it was capable of pumping more juice into the victim if the operator felt the subject wasnt fully incapacitated. Really cool stuff, but i'll never own one /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif

Re: Not a flashlight, but it\'ll LIGHT UP a perp

useless if the subject is used to getting shocked.
been hit with one of them.
what a joke.i get worse bites from hv in the projection tv,s i work on

Re: Not a flashlight, but it\'ll LIGHT UP a perp

[ QUOTE ]
snakebite said:
useless if the subject is used to getting shocked.
been hit with one of them.
what a joke.i get worse bites from hv in the projection tv,s i work on

[/ QUOTE ]
Snake,

Are you sure we're talking about the same thing? We're not talking about the "party buzzer" toys--sold as "stun guns" in drug stores and such.

The people whose testimony I've read--mostly Law Enforcement officers (many hit on more than one occasion)--and the research I've done doesn't support your claim.

Not that I'm doubting what you say, but I just wanted to make sure. Was it an Taser M18 or M26 you were hit with? Where? When? Very curious to know.

Re: Not a flashlight, but it\'ll LIGHT UP a perp

Oh YES...the M-Taser and Airtasers. Those are definitely something! Snakebite, you are talking about traditional low voltage handheld or fired "stun guns", which deploy about 1/6 the wattage and voltage of these. Furthermore, they are not designed to effect the central nervous system. What happens with the M-tasers is when you're hit, you cease all control of your muscular functions and the taser basically "takes over" your brain's control over your muscles. Thus, you involuntarily collapse, sending yourself to the ground in a split second. And they can't be affected by mind altering drugs, learned strength, or specialized training.

To sum it up, I wouldn't want to be on the receiving end of one. Go to their site and download some of their videos and demonstrations. It's pretty much all the proof you need.

Re: Not a flashlight, but it\'ll LIGHT UP a perp

[ QUOTE ]
hawkhkg11 said:
Oh YES...the M-Taser and Airtasers. Those are definitely something!..want to be on the receiving end of one. Go to their site and download some of their videos and demonstrations. It's pretty much all the proof you need.

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One, two shots at the most; if you miss then you have to press the flesh. Even if you hit, recovery time seems very brief; and the Taser looks eneough like a gun to risk the user being shot by a perp or perhaps a plainclothes officer. Fox OC might be a better choice for many people.

Even though I have broadband (cable) I could only download the smallest video files, and I've had no trouble on other sites. Any suggestions?

Brightnorm

Re: Not a flashlight, but it\'ll LIGHT UP a perp

We use the M26 taser. Our officer injury rate has dropped off to nothing. The suspect life sucks for five seconds. During that five seconds he can think and hear clearly. What he can't do is move voluntarily.

I rode the electric banana for five seconds. I thought it was broke and was near 20 seconds when it shut off. I then watched the video....it was five seconds.

What makes this weapon far superior to others from the past is that it operates at the same wattage as the brain. Throw in the voltage (i think it is 50,000 volts) and the suspect has no way to control his/her movement. PCP, straight psycho, or whatever, they are doing the chicken.

Re: Not a flashlight, but it\'ll LIGHT UP a perp

The Advanced Taser is an awesome tool. As for Advanced Tasers training/advertising film they used a marine who is considered by some to be the toughest hombre walking right now. His task is to cross a five yard distance and stab or take a gun away from another person. He takes one step and gets hit and then is down.

It does not compare to being electrocuted. There are marks where the little harpoons penetrate the skin, they don't bleed because the wound channel is cauterized.

Most people comply with comands on the first run. Some think the weapon is spent after the first shot and try to attack again only to go for another five. We have not seen anyone go beyond three rides.

The other benefit is that the suspect can be handled by officers during the ride. The only rule is DON"T TOUCH THE LEADS.

The company is out of Scottsdale, Az. They probably have a web site, maybe video of test subjects. This is a big step in the non-lethal arena, but not the final. The weapon is good out to 21 feet. If a subject has a lethal weapon in his hand he will be countered with a lethal weapon.

The 18 watt is the civilian model and is good but not as effective as the the LEO model. This is a better option than chemical sprays. There are some people that OC does not affect.

Re: Not a flashlight, but it\'ll LIGHT UP a perp

There was an informal test conducted around January of this year: the result of which was circulated equally informally. When the device was used with the target whom was wearing heavy clothing such as T-shirt, shirt, suitcoat, and a wool overcoat, the prods failed to penetrate to the skin.

Re: Not a flashlight, but it\'ll LIGHT UP a perp

Our department decided that only supervisors can be trusted with the Taser. I don't think they have been issued yet. Also only a couple hundred officers are allowed to carry the asp.
Glocks? only Hostage Barricade Team (SWAT) members.

I might buy a Taser for the home though.

Re: Not a flashlight, but it\'ll LIGHT UP a perp

Wolfen,
what state do you work in? Have the powers that be forgotten about the N. Hollywood bank robbers and the LAPD? I know dept's are concerned about budgets but we look at the manpower saving that we can accomplish by the reduction in officer injuries. Phoenix picked up the M26 in January of this year by March they had used it 34 some odd times, fully half could have been lethal encounters.

Our pop. is 50,000 in a resort town, not quite the activity of a metro area, but also not near the back up availability. If you have some bargaining power try to use it. The reason I say this is that we tried the supers having them. The problem became real apparent that the supers could not be in all places at once. This is a very effective tool if properly deployed.

Please don't take this as a criticism, it is not, just a thought from some one who has been down that road.

PS our SWAT carries the GL35 and patrol the GL22. If the officer wants an M3, he can buy it on his own, the dept provides the leather. The M3 is effective, but I am concerned that it is fragile, have cracked my bezel. Rumor has it that there will be another weapon light on the way....metal...affordable.... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Re: Not a flashlight, but it\'ll LIGHT UP a perp

Snakebite,
Advance Taser does a lot of trade shows, they are very proud of their product, rightfully so. They also have the officers welfare in mind. They have a program that if you use the taser to save a life they will give that officer an award. That life can be the bad guys.

If one of these shows comes to your area go for the demo. As I understand it they let citizens take the ride. Plus they give out a t-shirt for going five seconds. I think you will become a believer. This is not like getting electrocuted. Recovery is almost instantaneous unlike Chemical sprays which take 30 minutes to get over for the bad guy as well as inadvertant sprays to officers, I hate that.

Re: Not a flashlight, but it\'ll LIGHT UP a perp

it was the tazer.i participated in a voluntary test.
it was unpleasant but not incapacitating.and the test was done by a leo here in dayton.it took 3 shots with these to hit with the probes at 25 feet .the shot that hit was done at 8 feet.
the reloads for these are not cheap.
not something i would want to chance if i were a leo.
who lets a perp get within 8 feet before taking action anyhow?too close if you need to drop them.

Re: Not a flashlight, but it\'ll LIGHT UP a perp

Well, hopefully when they do get issued and the dept see that they work, more officers will be issued them, or allow officers to purchase them themselves. It probably will happen but being a large department in a financially strapped city, it will take time.

Re: Not a flashlight, but it\'ll LIGHT UP a perp

[ QUOTE ]
__ said:
When the device was used with the target whom was wearing heavy clothing such as T-shirt, shirt, suitcoat, and a wool overcoat, the prods failed to penetrate to the skin.

[/ QUOTE ]Hello Koga. Nice to see you here.
I have to agree with you. A LEO needs to use his/her service pistol in cold weather.

Re: Not a flashlight, but it\'ll LIGHT UP a perp

[ QUOTE ]
Chengiz said:
The Advanced Taser is an awesome tool. As for Advanced Tasers training/advertising film they used a marine who is considered by some to be the toughest hombre walking right now. His task is to cross a five yard distance and stab or take a gun away from another person. He takes one step and gets hit and then is down.



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I saw that, seems like his "going down" was accompanied by some pathetic whining even. (Didn't this same guy get out of some combat situation safely by taping his broken knee up with duct tape?) I think these are the best ranged stun weapons available to civilians until the beam weapons are refined. I'd be carrying one of these now if it weren't for the price... Even the deals are too expensive for me to justify currently. Eventually I hope my employers will arm us with these without an incident first.

Re: Not a flashlight, but it\'ll LIGHT UP a perp

[ QUOTE ]
Starshiptrupr said:
[ QUOTE ]
Chengiz said:
The Advanced Taser is an awesome tool. As for Advanced Tasers training/advertising film they used a marine who is considered by some to be the toughest hombre walking right now. His task is to cross a five yard distance and stab or take a gun away from another person. He takes one step and gets hit and then is down.



[/ QUOTE ]

I saw that, seems like his "going down" was accompanied by some pathetic whining even. (Didn't this same guy get out of some combat situation safely by taping his broken knee up with duct tape?) I think these are the best ranged stun weapons available to civilians until the beam weapons are refined. I'd be carrying one of these now if it weren't for the price... Even the deals are too expensive for me to justify currently. Eventually I hope my employers will arm us with these without an incident first.

[/ QUOTE ]

According to the Taser promotional material, that Marine is Hans Marrero, USMC (Ret.) former Chief Instruction Hand-to-Hand Combat Instructor for the USMC. I would imagine he's accustomed to some serious physical discomfort.

Re: Not a flashlight, but it\'ll LIGHT UP a perp

[ QUOTE ]
guncollector said:
According to the Taser promotional material, that Marine is the current head hand-to-hand combat instructor for the Corps. I would imagine he's accustomed to some serious physical discomfort.

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It appears as if he has some competition in snakebite now... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif Snakebite... ever think about becoming a jarhead? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Re: Not a flashlight, but it\'ll LIGHT UP a perp

[ QUOTE ]
snakebite said:
it was the tazer.i participated in a voluntary test.
it was unpleasant but not incapacitating.and the test was done by a leo here in dayton.it took 3 shots with these to hit with the probes at 25 feet .the shot that hit was done at 8 feet.
the reloads for these are not cheap.
not something i would want to chance if i were a leo.
who lets a perp get within 8 feet before taking action anyhow?too close if you need to drop them.

[/ QUOTE ]
Snake,

Remember Taser technology and consequently "taser guns" have been around since the 1970's. The efficacy of these non-lethal weapons has improved dramatically very recently.

Consequently, efficacy of these tools is very maker & model specific (setting aside testing conditions such as battery type & condition, electrical lead penetration/test subject clothing, etc.).

So, when you say "it was a tazer" that you tested with, it doesn't tell us enough.

You could have experienced any of a wide-range of tasers--from the completely ineffective to the type (like the M18 & M26) that drop the hopped-up druggies to martial arts instructors for the USMC.