Can we talk here?

I know that my last post in this forum got shut down, but that was indeed, entirely my fault. But here is a better way to sum up how I feel politically without "baiting" or "trolling" as the admins on this board call it. Please don't shut this one down. I'd like to hear what others feel about our current political involvement in world affairs. This is the most civil way that I can express this, and is quite frankly, the way I do feel about current conditions here in America. So here it is in a nutshell:
Look, George Bush had to run this country in one of the more extraordinary and tragic times in our history. With the possible exception of Pearl Harbor there is just nothing to compare to 9-11. But Extraordinary times require extraordinary people and while in the short term (0-6 months after the attacks) he did the right thing, in the long term he has pretty much been exposed for what he is: The spoiled son of an American icon who dodged service in Vietnam, who has been handed everything to him his entire life, who has ABSOLUTELY NO CLUE of the plight and horrors that the young Americans under his command face whenever he has a whim to attack someone, who has ABSOLUTELY NO CLUE what it means to lose a job or to have to struggle to pay mortgages or provide your kids everything you want to be able to give them. He is not a leader and he is certainly not the person we need to navigate through this new era we have entered.
America is the greatest country on earth. I believe that with all my heart. I spent 4 years in the Marine Corps (20 years ago) solely because I believed it was my duty to do my part. And as an American who has prospered in my time since college and the Corps I am very appreciative of the life I have here. I want my kids to have the same opportunities. I want future generations to be able to enjoy the life I have been able to carve out. I fear, that with people such as George W. Bush in office, that we are headed down a dark path of deceit, war, death and turmoil that we may indeed not be able to recover from. I cannot vote for this man and I sincerely hope that enough of my fellow countrymen feel the same.

E-equals-emcee-squared (Ed)

I seem to detect a dislike for our President in your post.

Ed... it has been the experience here that discussions like this end in horrible train wrecks with lots of mud slinging and flaming of other members. This is not productive and it creates an environment here on CPF that I don't think any of us want or that we come here for. Short of disallowing political discussions altogether, we have tried to avoid letting this kind of situation develope.

There are many, many, many political discussion boards where your opinion would not only be welcome but others would agree with you whole-heartedly... one such board is Democratic Underground. If you would like more polite discussion and want to hear the other side, might I suggest The Annoyed Army or Free Conservatives. You'll have to forgive me for not knowing any other liberal or democrat boards. I'm sure if you do a google search, you will find more than you'll have time to visit in a lifetime.

So here's the thing.. I'm not going to close this thread. But I'll be watching it. The first sign of trolling, baiting, flaming or flat out stupidity that I see, I will lock this down. That is a warning to everyone who might want to join in this discussion. This is a very volitile topic and my gutt is telling me to close it now... but ever the optimist, I'm hoping you all can act like adults...

I feel that this is a flashlight forum not a bash the president forum. There is way too many other places for diatribes like this than here. Now if the subject is what type of lights does the president use?-fine, or what lights does the secret service carry? I consider your post to still be inflammatory and baiting, the same actions that got you shut down prior to this one. I served my country for ten years but I try to engage my brain before placing my mouth or in this case my fingers in gear.

Dissent is the greatest act of patriotism a man can engage in, especially if that dissent is justified. I've tried to make that my credo ever since Bush took office, and I have to say I wholeheartedly agree with you on this subject.

But if you haven't been engaging in political discussions on this board, I suppose I should "teach" you what Sasha taught me.

This board is heavily slanted towards the right and people often display great bias to what is or is not offensive to them. Most of this is driven by ideology. After much experience in such discussions here I've noticed that at best, you will end up outnumbered, angry, and disheartened.

If you still wish to continue to post about this subject, then I will always be here to back you up if things get too hairy. But here's what I honestly think: Would you walk into the Republican National Committee and start uttering those words?

Well, my friend, you are in one right now.

This kind of "discussion" is BS. You hate the President. So what. You hide behind a screen name and rant. List your real name and phone number and let the stuff fly. Go find some other place to spew your hatred. I know you won't ,but look around you. The economy is doing great, growth is strong, employment is high. The tech bubble burst, anything based on "funny money" will fail.

BTW don't respond to this post. I don't want to hear from you about it.

I guess I took the bait, huh?

e=mc2,

I think you have politely explained your opinion and position on the current president. I don't get involved in the cafe political discussions as a rule and will abstain from this one as well. To do your concerns and position justice with both sides given free chance to speak their positions would be to many a more important endeavur than discussing flashlights. To come even close to doing such an important topic justice would likely take more band width than the rest of CPF combined.

It would be one thing if others make one post stating their position as you have but it would be something all together different if a debate results.

BTW, I am not a moderator here, just another member. Since we're all under one roof, I do feel the need to comment when I see explosives brought into the room. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

BE CAREFUL and is this the right place?

I know it's a cafe but there are cafe's and then there are cafe's.......

- Don

Oops,

Subject title, Can we talk here?

Answer: Doesn't look like it.........

[Edit: this is in reference to 2dogs posting at the same time as I had; didn't take long. All bait is tainted let's ALL walk away....]

- Don

I really don't understand this whole thing about "train wrecks" being a problem that I've been reading about for the last few months. I have to ask, who really cares if a thread ends up in a "train wreck"? If you don't like a thread or the tone of the person that starts the thread then there is always a back button. That's what it's there for, just use it.

I'm not offended in the least at hearing someone express his honest opinion on any given subject in an overly energetic or even an inflammatory manner, but I have to say that I am very offended by threats of censorship in a "free" country. Free speech is guaranteed in a society in order to protect unpopular speech, not popular speech, which needs nobody's protection.

Just my own unpopular view to add to an already unpopular discussion. Someday I will likely be the one that starts a thread that most everyone hates and I would hope that someone would be willing to step in to help defend my right to express an unpopular idea. Just throwing this idea out there for you guys to ponder on...

X-Cal you maybe right. However when the same person has had threads shut down in the past regarding the same subject (hates President Bush) and his current post reads to me like a manual on flame baiting I pull out all the stops. He has an agenda, encouraging hatred of the President. Does that belong here?

I disagree with 2dogs statement that the economy is doing great. Most of my friends that were laid off, still are, some for two years now.

I'm sure this thread is going to be closed down as soon as Sasha checks back since her original post.

We should all be willing to stand up and defend the 1st amendment. I truly believe, that one amendment makes our country one of the best on Earth. Doesn't matter if you are on the right, left or somewhere in the middle. We need to hear all sides in able to make informed decisions. Don't fear dissent. Embrace it. That is what makes our nation great! Just imagine what it would be like if you couldn't. To many good people have given their lives in defense of our freedoms. You can bet your bottom dollar, they had diverse opinions. To deny anyone their right to speak their mind is unpatriotic.

Let's keep it civil and respectful, please. We can all celebrate our freedom of speech, together. At the same time, may I suggest we remember those that have given their all, so we can.
oldgrandpajack

The tech miracle that was built on investor capital was a hoax. Many are left without a job. Of course many jobs have left for overseas locations. No environmental concerns and cheap labor. Those jobs may never come back. But, look around. In my little town gardners charge 25.00/hour. Most of those 25.00/hour jobs are filled by illegals making 10.00/hour. Construction runs 200.00/square foot and business is booming. The homeless shelters are filled with 20-30 year old white men while south of the border day workers have their choice of jobs. Everyday.

Car traffic is heavy on every freeway. Restaurants are crowded. The tourist season was decent though not the best ever. Employers complain about not being able to hire decent help. Where is the problem? I'll admit many college grads don't have many job skills. A BS in biology might get you a vet tech job for 9.00/hour. But whose fault is that?

Here, there isn't a recession. The professionally umemployed will always complain. So will the advocates. But still life is good. I just don't think there are many people who are truly grateful for anything.

Jack did you called me unpatriotic?

[ QUOTE ]
2dogs said:X-Cal you maybe right. However when the same person has had threads shut down in the past regarding the same subject (hates President Bush) and his current post reads to me like a manual on flame baiting I pull out all the stops. He has an agenda, encouraging hatred of the President. Does that belong here?

[/ QUOTE ]
I'm only a member here too-not a moderator (glad) /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif, But the only person here who has suggested "hate" is member 2dogs.

2dogs-go back and carefully re-read mc²'s original post. Please don't destroy this thread with your usual polemics. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif

Gary... seems you read my mind... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

I ran out to grab some dinner and it took less than an hour for this to go to hell real quick. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/banghead.gif

X-CalBR8 ... ok... I'll take your bait. But it's really unfair... as you've pointed out many times... because I have "the power" (some day I want to know what that means... 'cuz the only thing that I can see I have is a raging headache from having to deal with this same thing over and over and over again... even my bulldogs eventually learn not to **** on the carpet)... now where was I?

Oh yes... train wreck... As I pointed out in my post above, there are many, many, many other bulleitin boards on the internet where you can discuss politics. I even provided links to a few. It is the prerogative of the owner of this particular bulletin board (that would be DavidW) not to want to provide a platform for the type of behavior that you seem to want and seem to think should be allowed. We've been over the whole free speech thing how many times? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dedhorse.gif Give it up... you won't win that one here.

Ed... I apologize for having to close your topic yet again. I have to say that you pretty much set yourself up for this one. But please don't blame me... blame those who obviously can't behave as intelligent adults.

Thread closed.

I would like to add one more thing in response to hawk's post... I feel this is an important point to make... hawk said this:
[ QUOTE ]
This board is heavily slanted towards the right...

[/ QUOTE ]

He is absolutely correct. That is really no one's fault. It's just the way things happen. However, I would like to point out that while this is true, you will also notice that those of us on the right are not the ones who keep starting threads on these same controversial topics over and over and over again ad nauseum. Yes, we do end up getting involved with them because we do have opinions also but we are not the ones who start these topics.

Just thought that point needed to be brought to light... in case anyone missed it.

Now this thread is closed for good.