How has the game moved on

My original title for this thread was going to be "What happened to Surefire?" but after searching past threads, I supposed it would get closed pretty quickly, also I suppose my question also apply to the industry in general too and after days of reading old threads, i still can't find an answer to my question which is:

I've been a flashaholic for the past 5-6 years, and in my beginning as a serious flashaholics, I've always looked up to Surefire for the most desirable lights, I've always dreamed of getting the must have like C3, M3 and M6, a visit to my local dealer that has almost every surefire in existence on display all the way to the hellfire makes me feels like kids in a candystore. After a few G2s, I never got round to getting those surefire.

After a couple of years of being away from the flashaholic scene, I came back looking at Surefire and feels like something is missing, the passion has gone. Sure, the company still makes quality products like it used to, and I have no problems with the price, but I get more exited at Fenix's range of products even though I feel that fenix's build quality has somewhere to go yet. Has Surefire become the new maglite?

Is it the rapid development of LEDs that has driven the pace of the flashlight industry that now seems to favors the small guys that can afford to throw out tens or twenty new products every month without caring if a few 'duds' will tarnish the brand's image? I seriously don't know.

At least, Surefire seems to have found a stable position for itself to be in, there'll always be some fresh new brand from China tomorrow that'll be the new fenix overnight, but there is only one surefire (or maglite).

Well, Surefire isnt the only US company out there, HDS, Malkoff, Arc, Zebralight(US made ones will come out next year) that offer similar quality. Surefire has moved on as well, from the Luxeons/Lumileds/SSCs used in older LED versions to Cree. They have discontinued all but a few incans and are coming out with lights that use the current generation of LEDs, XP-Gs are used in the rechargeables (yet to come), XP-Es are used in the new lumamax, new G2X/6Px, XM-Ls are used in the new M3lT/Invictus/M6 guardian and the SST90 led is used in the 2000 lumen UDR dominator (yet to come but it's in the catalogue). They aren't missing anything actually when all the planned models do come up and i think they've got a pretty good lineup. The older C2/6P/9P/Z2s are mainly sold in the marketplace as hosts bored for 18650s and will accept anything from a 200 lumen malkoff to a 1000 Quad XP-G, so the market for Surefire is still hot.

What they're missing is a high output HID (>50w) and a short-arc spotlight, but hell, that's why we've got the 400w thor mod/megablaster etc. LEDs are good and all but they'll never throw as far or have as much output.

Personally I would never get a Surefire because I'm not that concerned about my flashlight surviving severe abuse.

Actually not really sure how a small flashlight encounters all this severe abuse that some manufacturers claim their lights can endure.

Mainly interested in the latest tech at a reasonable price, that is durable enough to get me to the next tech .

So far I have never seen anything at Surefire that excites me.

bobbagum said:

...that now seems to favors the small guys that can afford to throw out tens or twenty new products every month without caring if a few 'duds' will tarnish the brand's image?

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Surefire isn't designing for the enthusiast crowd. Many of these other late-comers are. Surefire is more concerned with designing, testing, and selling to mililary or police who prize strict reliability and basic function over all the bells and whistles we like here. Proven design, proven emitters, proven battery configurations, etc, etc.

I also feel that the passion for Surefire has gone down. I for one love the older models like the C/M/L/E/Z models and others. However the new stuff they are coming out with just doesn't do it for me. The first time i saw the new "meat clever" design on one of their LED models I was like WTH?
Also the other manufacturers don't quite do it for me. I finally got a Four Sevens Preon on sale and the light is impressive but the threads are ugghhh. I'm ready to send it back or ask for my money back because the threads are just falling apart. It just made me appreciate my L1 more.
At work I EDC a Surefire M2, a streamlight Stylus Pro and a cheap Hugsby P2 that I got from DX. Those three lights pretty much cover my needs and wants. I bought a bunch of Surefire on Sale from the LAPG sale so I'm good to go. I planning on keeping my P60 hosts for a long time until the P60 market dies down. When that happens I might start looking for something to take my P60 host's place.
It almost feels like the American golden age of flashlights is over.

Vesper said:

Surefire isn't designing for the enthusiast crowd. ...

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I supposed our need diverge from LE/Military now that the market for enthusiast has matured. I just wish they could stay as a benchmark like how Maglite used to be hosts for other mods, but even on this front the P60bodies don't look like they'll be around for much longer.

I believe the p60 market will still be going strong for at least a few more years. Surefire may have gotten out but then you have other companies like Malkoff and Solarforce that are still pumping out p60 hosts and parts like nothing ever happened. So if the p60 fad eventually dies down, what will replace the concept? Anything out there?

I liked the old Surefire way. They stood behind their goods. Their flashlights were easy to modify. They even offered different levels of incandescent bulbs for most incans. I have a couple of new Surefire lights and while they work just fine, but they are not as bright as their competition. They look, feel, and perform as reliable lights for the purpose sold. Surefire still has their "I'll send you a new one" customer service. I hope I don't need it.

I been off and on into it over the last few years like most my hobbies. I really like my surefire host and just got my third so all I have right now is surefire host. I hate to say it but I am starting to get interested in some solarforce lights though they do look to be some quality units and lots of nice options. A solarforce with a UCL lens and a McClicky seems like it would be a very nice host. A lot is prob taken away from surefire also cause of all the aftermarket LED drop in's now being made. Lots of host out there also now that are similar to a 6p or 9p.

I too loved Surefire. In fact years ago when the LED Lenser range of torches appeared everywhere it iwas a revoultion. Having dipped in and out of various hobbies I can say that the flashlight market has changed beyond recognition. 500 lumens is just not enough these day. Everything is now in 1000 of lumens with incredible battery life, long throws and the latest trend to make the torches small such as the Nitecore TM-11 which still amazes me each time use it.

I don't think quality and reliability ever go out of fashion? I also think that companies like Surefire instil confidence in their products by the excellent warranty and spares provision that they operate. It is no use buying something which if it does fail can't be repaired because the model has gone out of date almost as quickly as the next emitter design comes into being . The argument that Surfire (for example) has lost its dynamism due to no longer being the pinnacle of performance is in my opinion wrong. LEO's the military and discerning buyers are not overly concerned with buying the newest technological advancement as soon as it appears. What they demand is quality, reliability and longevity combined with good after care. This was always the market Surefire catered for and it (IMHO) doesn't appear to have deviated from that route? This is not to say that other companies cannot produce a quality product or something which doesn't represent good value. For instance I love Malkoff products and he has a established a loyal and growing fan base. However, he hasn't done this by using cutting edge technology but by making something that is as reliable as possible and backed with a warranty that many competitors can't do due to their size. I think you have identified the reason for you question quite well and that your motives for buying a new flashlight concern it's use of the latest and most innovative features be it the emitter or the electronics or control mechanism etc. In that sense perhaps you have identified the problem which you mistakenly believe is down to Surefire but in reality isn't. The fact is that the flashlight market we see today didn't really start to exist until a few years ago when LED development started to really take off. It has only been a relatively short period of time since incandescent lights were the mainstream technology in use and which is now being relegated to the sidelines. It is therefore no coincidence that the marketplace now is considerably more competitive and saturated with a myriad of LED products which are in the main dominated by products from the Far East. Has that dulled Surefire's image? No! Has it mired what we consider to be Surefire's dominance, perhaps?

I don't think there is a better light for mounting on a pistol or shotgun than the Surefire X300 or dedicated shotgun forend with integral light. They are expensive but they are the only lights I will use for those applications. That said, I won't spend my money on any of the other Surefire lights because I think they are priced too high and there are other reliable, durable options that will meet my needs.

I am really hopefull that some of the quality light makers will develop a $150, durable and bright (250 lumens) pistol light that doesn't tear up the tip of my left thumb after multiple rounds. On that day, my only future Surefire purchases will be shotgun lights.

Perhaps this is normal as companies grow from a few dozen employees to a couple hundred as demand for the company's products increases and supplying and maintaining that larger demand becomes the main business of the company?
Whereas before the main business of a small business was carving a niche through product creation, the main business of a larger business is to manufacturer enough product to stay in business to meet hopefully growing demand.
Larger companies have so much more responsibility for their employees and stakeholders/investors as the numbers are larger.

The risks change.

Products that are either difficult or expensive (or both) to 'mass-produce' have to have certainty of demand to be viable. The 'flashlight' market has changed fast not least in the context of the local (USA) and global economy.

I know there continues to be passion and energy at SureFire to invent and manufacture game-changing products. Perhaps the resources necessary to do this are more often diverted to parts of the business concerned with delivery of products intended to ensure the company continues.
The change to X-type handhelds being one really important thing SureFire needed to get right not least because these lights are the main image of the brand for a large portion of their consumer customers in the flashlight market.

Another demand they must meet is military/law enforcement/government orders - for example:
In September 2011 SureFire was awarded a $23,329,230 firm-fixed-price, indefinite-delivery/indefinite-quantity contract for lots 1 and 2 of the SOCOM Family of Muzzle Brake Suppressors (FMBS). Work will be performed in Fountain Valley, Calif., and is expected to be completed by September 2016.

Of course SureFire already have SOCOM VBL (Very Bright Light) contracts for
$16.6 million for the VBL-H (Heavy) program SureFire is supplying their new HellFighter 4 (HF4) as a heavy weapons light.
$14.9 million for the VBL-III program SureFire is supplying their M620V ScoutLight and their new M720V RAID (both with IR/white light feature).

These are just three contracts I found with a simple google search.

Where does this leave the passion? One could argue that this is SureFire's passion.

We know they've been working on their Invictus type light for sometime and have released the UB3T.
We also know SureFire have been busy inventing a new TailCap - their 4-Function TailCap (4FTC) and a new line of rechargeables.
So there is certainly invention and innovation going on at SureFire.

What we really want to see is these things released. And that's a different matter altogether it seems.

I'd imagine that developing something using rechargeable lithium batteries while being a US-based companies is difficult compared to the fly-by-night Chinese companies where uses of 18650s are "at your own risk'