LED/battery upgrade for Costco 3AAA (pics)

Right, i'm new to all this and don't really have much knowledge on this subject, but here goes...

I've got a costco Techlite Lumen Master. I'm really impressed with the quality and it's pretty bright (150 lumens claimed).

However, i'd like MORE and being an engineer i want to do this myself!!

...this is where it gets interesting!

I've already 'upgraded' the switch to a simple on/off clicky type, but now i want it to give a longer throw!

Questions:

1) Will installing a 22600 battery alone make the cree XPG brighter due to higher ah?

2) Will the LED cope with the higher ah of the new battery?

3) Which LED (inc board) would be a straight swap for the XPG and give a higher ouput?

4) What is 'direct drive' and how can this be done, as i understand this gives the LED more power?

Go easy on me, as it's a big learning curve, but i'm keen to learn!

Can anyone offer any help to a Noob?! :wave:

hey cooper
i can't offer any help because i'm new here, but i like ur style. i've got an unopened package of these that i was thinking of returning, but now u've peaked my interest, let me know if u get anywhere.

Cooper_GTI said:

Right, i'm new to all this and don't really have much knowledge on this subject, but here goes...

Click to expand...

Well, you gotta start somewhere. You may get more assistance in the Custom & Modified Flashlights section, however.

And since you're using Li-ion batteries, you'll want to learn as much as you can about how to safely use them--check out this forum (and sub-forums):
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/forumdisplay.php?9-Flashlight-Electronics-Batteries-Included

Cooper_GTI said:

1) Will installing a 22600 battery alone make the cree XPG brighter due to higher ah?

Click to expand...

Ah is a measure of charge, which when combined with voltage is a measure of energy rather than power, and power is what directly relates to brightness. Power is based on voltage and current (A, not Ah), and depends not only on the characteristics of the battery but also of the electronics in the flashlight (the driver circuit). Voltage is what you should look at first when substituting a different battery type, and in this case a 22600 Li-ion (or is yours LiFePO4?) will have a nominal voltage of 3.7 V (maximum of 4.2 V when topped-off) compared to 4.5 V or so for three AAA batteries connected in series, as they are with this flashlight. Since alkaline batteries will droop or sag in voltage when under heavy loads anyway, offhand I'd say that the 22600 battery is probably compatible with this flashlight (as long as you can get it to physically fit, since it is longer). There are still questions as to how it will react because the internal resistance will be much lower, and without knowing how this flashlight's electronics work, the flashlight may be either brighter or dimmer (I've seen both), and although unlikely, it is also possible that the LED will be burned out. If the flashlight works alright with three AAA NiMH rechargeables, however, then there is a very good chance that it will behave similarly with a 22600.

Cooper_GTI said:

2) Will the LED cope with the higher ah of the new battery?

Click to expand...

Probably (see above), but Ah is not the issue since it is a measure of capacity rather than power.

Cooper_GTI said:

3) Which LED (inc board) would be a straight swap for the XPG and give a higher ouput?

Click to expand...

You may get some suggestions here, but ask over in the modified flashlight forums.

Cooper_GTI said:

4) What is 'direct drive' and how can this be done, as i understand this gives the LED more power?

Click to expand...

It simply means that the LED is connected directly to the battery (maybe with a resistor). Whether it gives the LED more power depends on the electrical characteristics of the LED and battery, in comparison to what the electronics that would have been there are designed to do. For example, flashlights that operate on a single AA battery probably wouldn't even light up on direct drive, while some other types of flashlights might be several times brighter than the electronics would have allowed. In short, it depends.

Thanks for that insight! It makes a little more sense now!

However, the two of the batteries face on way and one faces the opposite, which i assume means it runs at 3v.

Does this mean that running a 22600 will kill the led, although there is a resistor on the board, which i'd imagine helps to keep the power in check...?

You could check out a drop in [driver led reflector combo]- you can buy an xpg 4.2v setup and possibly just use the driver\led and use your own reflector. This way it would have proper regulated output with a safe amp draw.

Cooper_GTI said:

Thanks for that insight! It makes a little more sense now!

Click to expand...

That's good, and just in case this isn't obvious, the fact that a battery is capable of delivering more power at any given moment, which tends to be true for Li-ion batteries, doesn't necessarily imply that the electronics and the LED will draw more power from it. Some electronics are smart and can draw as much power as necessary to drive the LED at a certain level, while others are simpler and depend mostly on the voltage and internal resistance of the battery to help determine how much power is drawn. In the general case, it's not predictable without knowing how the electronics of the flashlight work. In the most basic cases, the 22600 will provide similar effective voltage and lower internal resistance in comparison to three AAA alkaline batteries. If the value of the resistor used in your flashlight is a lot higher than the normal internal resistance of alkaline batteries, however, then the flashlight will probably not be much brighter when running on a 22600; it will almost certainly run for much longer, though (on a full charge). The only way to know for sure would be to try it (if you want to).

Cooper_GTI said:

However, the two of the batteries face on way and one faces the opposite, which i assume means it runs at 3v.

Click to expand...

Each alkaline AAA battery (technically, each is a cell--multiple cells make up a "battery"--but who cares, right? ) has a nominal voltage of 1.5 V when fresh, and when three of them are connected in series (positive to negative) their voltages add up to 4.5 V. The reason that one faces the opposite way in this case is that it is more efficient to wire them in series this way for a short flashlight, which you should be able to see if you look closely at the battery holder's metal parts--positive is always connected to negative, just as though you lined the batteries up, single-file, like you would in a longer, slimmer flashlight. In other words, although one battery is facing the opposite way physically, electrically it is facing the same direction--in terms of current--as the other two.

Cooper_GTI said:

Does this mean that running a 22600 will kill the led, although there is a resistor on the board, which i'd imagine helps to keep the power in check...?

Click to expand...

I can't absolutely guarantee anything, but in this case it probably wouldn't kill the LED (looks like a CREE XP-E), as it is capable of taking significantly more power than this flashlight normally puts through it, and the voltage of a single 22600 cell is not outrageously high. By the way, does this flashlight have any warnings against using NiMH batteries? Does it say to only use alkalines or anything like that? If not, then a single 22600 is more or less electrically equivalent to three AAA NiMH batteries connected in series (although it has more capacity)--if three NiMH batteries won't blow the LED, then a 22600 theoretically should not. If you think it's worth running a mild risk of ruining a relatively inexpensive flashlight, then just try it. I bet that it won't mess up anything and will work fine, but it's not my risk to take.

I have a 200 lumen Techlite Lumen Master which uses an Cree XPG led. It seems to have some form of a regulator in the tailcap. When directly driven with a 18650, it draws 3.5 to 4 amps. At low setting, 0.35A, at high setting, 1.5A.

When using a Li-ion cell, it should be a bit brighter as there will be less resistance than when using NiMH batteries. With a single Li-ion, there will be 2 battery contacts. With 3 cells, there will be 8 contacts including the battery holder's and internal resistance also adds up when you stack cells.